ALL TRUMP!!! ALL THE TIME!!!

No, we didn't know any such thing. We suspected Russian interference, and after the Mueller investigation and subsequent report we received confirmation. That is when we knew.

Wrong. They conducted "espionage." Which, governments have been doing since the beginning of governments. The US does it routinely as well. It's just since the vast use of social media, they did it in a different way than before.

There was some evidence that the Russian backed hacking group ATTEMPTED to access NJ voting boxes, but failed. So no, Russia didn't "interfere" in the 2016 elections. They attempted to, as probably did China and Iran and every other country that had a secret service budget and vested interest to do so.

You guys still seem to think, after all this time, that Hillary didn't just lose the election because she lost. Trump didn't necessarily win because he was awesome, he won because Hillary was just that hated, Bernie Boys wouldn't vote for her after it was confirmed the DNC and Camp Hillary literally colluded to undermine Bernie's primary campaign and we have an electoral college so that California doesn't elect every president.

So yes, it really does look like liberals are still doing the, "but Russia!' thing.

Sorry but, if you mean "we" as in the posters in these threads that obviously lean liberal, he has a ***ton of clues. I don't know about "you" specifically, but if you feel like going back a couple months of posts (I would not recommend it) and find where any one of these others have even seemed remotely willing to place blame on anyone from, "their side," (aside from Eiryl from remote time to time) even when it's incredibly obvious, then I'd love to see it.

What generally happens when someone obviously who leans conservative makes a good point using logic, easily verifiable facts with links, the left arguing contributor instead of admitting they were wrong or at bare minimum, openly acknowledging "their guy/gal" messed up/sucks, they just don't respond for a day or two, peruse the internet for yet another leftist media Trump bash story, then post a link to that and start again.

It's ALMOST like a few of the liberal posters here have done this before and spend much of their time trolling political discussion threads and know how to avoid conversations when they know they can't just blame Trump for something 100%. Almost...

Your train of logic is just someone took a shot at me, therefore they’re correct. It’s the same line of logic you use with anything Trump-related. Don’t pretend otherwise.

was it russia interference or ukraine interference?

I don't need to pretend anything. Someone called you out, and you threw out claims of it not making sense. It made perfect sense, in a quite accurate way.

What!?! This isn't opinion, it is a fact...that you are calling "wrong?"...lol, if that isn't tinfoil I don't know what is.

You’re not exactly an expert on things that make sense.

You don't even know how to insult in the proper context. "Tinfoil" would require me to be presenting anything close to a conspiracy.

ATTEMPTING to do something and SUCCEEDING are oceans apart. In order for Russia to actually have "interfered" in the 2016 election, they would have had to have been successful at changing votes physically, which they found they were not able to succeed at doing. Therefore, Russia attempted to interfere, but was unsuccessful. They then attempted to "influence" opinions, which there is no way to prove that was successful. They did what was the modern day equivalent of flying over the enemy territory and dropping leaflets.

I've said this many times and I will say it again, a person would have to be a complete idiot to think there were just, hundreds of thousands of "fence sitters" on the eve of the election, waiting to be "influenced" by false social media memes or email scandals. This is America, man. The overwhelming majority just look for that (R) or (D). Everyone who cared enough to actually get out of their house and vote knew who they were going to choose the moment the primaries were over. Everything after that was media hype.

Our own media is more than capable of misrepresenting the truth to sway the opinions of voters and they do it year round, every election, not just in 2016.

I actually can't believe we are still, August of 2020, talking about Russia's attempt to influence the 2016 election...wow.

Some people cant move on.

Russian.

The Russian counter plot to blame Ukraine for the interference dates back to 2015.

They sold it to Rudy. I really am curious about how much he paid, other than what remained of his reputation.

oh. what's this about then?

https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/441892-ukrainian-embassy-confirms-dnc-contractor-solicited-trump-dirt-in-2016

A blog from the discredited John Solomon.

so this didn't happen then?


and this isn't another blog from a discredited journalist?

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/ukraine-sabotage-trump-backfire-233446

The Senate just released an incredibly detailed report on all of Paul Manafort's extensive dealings with Russia and the Ukraine during the election. I've always found it amusing how Trump has tried, and failed, to downplay Manafort's role in his campaign. He wasn't a "campaign aide," he was the campaign manager, the top guy, in charge of everything. He was dirty before he was hired, a simple vetting process should have set off every alarm bell there was. Of course, considering how team Trump has never cared about vetting anyone during his Presidency, I guess no one should be surprised.

Anyways, you guys know what happened to Manafort after he was fired right? All of those slimy dealings landed him in prison, where he remains today. He got off with a light sentence, of course, I think it was 8 years or something when he was facing 50. If Paul Manafort never got hired by Trump, Russia never would have had the success they did meddling in the election. He gave them a direct line.

why was he fired?

So since the hydroxychloroquine move on his part has mostly fizzled, the great medical and scientific minds that brought you "I'm building a Wall", "Yose-mite", and MyPillow comes Oleandra- a toxic plant that will fix all your COVID needs!

Axios story

If it’s a story that works in favor of Trump, it’s automatically discredited. Remember, Orange Man Bad, so reality itself cannot be true if it does not support that notion.

Can't you effectively say the same thing about supporters of him (again, no, not all, but an incredibly high majority). Our guy Good, so if it doesn't fit that narrative, it must be false or biased because the media hates my guy.

The blind following happening in both parties right now is atrocious. You didn't see this high percentage of sheep from the republican party afraid to criticize their president when he's deserving of it during Bush 43, during Reagan....and the same can be said for the Dems as so many switch from seeing Biden as a wimpy candidate to the next coming of Obama. The Dems at least have the excuse of their convention after a very crowded primary- such consolidation among a political party is common during/after a Convention that puts their best foot forward without active debate from opposing views...conventions on both sides are basically Nuremberg rallies to stir up the base to action.

I see your comment as more of a sad commentary on the country as a whole, not one specific "side".

You seem to get hyper defensive any time I make a snarky comment. Yes, there are obviously those on both sides who dismiss out of hand anything that goes against their preconceived notions. You’re preaching to the choir here.

apologies if coming across defensive. It comes from my general frustration with a process that has devolved from Lincoln-Douglass to Turd Sandwich-Giant Douche, and we treat politics and the associated responsibilities like a sporting event. So when I see a comment that can easily be attributed to either party and its membership, but implies that such faults are only on one side, I feel the need to remind others that those faults are EVERYWHERE.

Not so much aimed at you directly, but more a comment on the process that I feel can't be overstated.

all politicians are bad
but trump real bad

I understand that sentiment and have expressed variations of it myself on many occasions. There are a handful of us here who are willing to occasionally break rank and have a more nuanced discussion where we make concessions, but that’s really something that requires a group effort. We have others who refuse to acknowledge fault on their side for any reason, and once that ball gets rolling there is very little room for recovery.

You’re fairly new, so you’re seeing a lot of this from a vacuum. However, some of us have been doing this P&R thing for years, so when we express certain sentiments it’s not necessarily based on partisan stereotypes. Sometimes it’s based on what we see regularly in these forums.

certainly new regarding P&R discussion online- never dared venture into this black hole until covid boredom drove me to it haha. And the environment is much more like a WW1 "no-man's-land" than the measured P&R talks I have with friends, colleagues, and family (ok, not so different from the ones with family).

Agreed- one person who sees this more as sport than conversation can nuke a thread in a matter of minutes. And that results in a very different style of "debate" (word used loosely haha) than one has in other environments.

I'll do my best to remember this change in locale^^

Every P&R here is

***. Cancer.

(not that it isn't "everywhere", it's just more cancerous, here)

P&R is the ultimate version of PvP in the XI community

That might be the most profound thing I've read so far in these subforums. Well played, well played.

lol