The Last Dance III: A Dancer's Guide *New*

It used to be that attack/defense ratio capped at the same point for normal hits and crits. Is that no longer the case?

Bgwiki lists a ratio cap per weapon type (3.625 for 1H), but it isn't clear how PDL affects that.

This is not how it works. Ratio caps the same for normal and crit hits. Now what crit does is add +1.0 pdif on top of cap for regular hit, but that doesn't require additional attack. This makes crits extremely potent in very low attack scenario because if you have some ridiculously low pdif like 0.2 and you crit, it will go to 1.2 on that crit increasing damage x6. In general pdl lowered the base effectiveness of crits, because without pdl +1.0 pdif was boosting damage by like 30% at the capped attack. Now with pdl increasing pdif on normal hits even to something like 5.5 or 6, +1 on top of that is relatively much less of a boost.

You beat to the point but I'm glad you did. I wasn't thinking in terms of how beneficial crits are for a low pdif situations, but simply in total max damage. I don't see PDL+ in any kind of detriment because it doesn't lower crit damage, just raises how high we can make it. but your point is solid, the relative effectiveness of crits is reduced.

hmm I like the insight of focusing on crits when hard to cap pdif. wish I would have thought that way years ago... because several hybrid jobs lie in this situation, and crit rate + is probably more beneficial in solo and lowman situations when trying to tackle bigger stuff.

my understanding is it'd be the same as pdif and just moves the cap up by however much total PDL you have in traits/gear

That's probably approximately correct but maybe not exactly. Ratio historically doesn't map 1:1 with pdif, but maybe it does at the high end where PDL matters.

To cap pdif, your ratio needs to be 0.375 above pdif cap, because above 2.44 ratio your pdif is randomly chosen from range of ratio - 0.375 to ratio + 0.375, so to ensure you will be at pdif cap even if you randomly got -0.375, you need to be that much over pdif cap with your ratio.

to completely maximize the damage yes, but for the pdl gear to be effective, don't you think hitting the average is worthwhile?

I'm running into a bit of confusion on the calculation of pdl from gear. the trait is pretty clear and straitforward. but is this right
this itemset is +62% Physical damage limit
ItemSet 400289
this gearset doesn't include prime aftermath

base pdif for 1 handed 3.25 traits from dnc takes this to 3.45, if I /drk it goes to 3.55.

Am I really multiplying 3.55 by 1.62? that seems alot higher than expected. effectively a 5.75 pdif cap? not accounting for randomizer of course. Thats a really big gap. I was initially thinking I just added the .62 to 3.55 for 4.17. that seems more reasonable.

If so, then figuring out exactly how much pdl is optimal becomes a bugger of a problem. Anytime pdif is above 'normal' cap (3.55 in this case), its worth using pdl equipment but probably only in smaller increments.

if so, the mob that needed 4k attack to cap, doesn't need 5.4k attack w/ maxed out pdl gear, it needs 6.5k attack.

if the ratio were only 4.17, then it would need 4700 attack.

the attack requirements ofcourse can be drastically reduced w/ a bit of defense reducion. 23.% from steps and 20% from dia 3 from trust already makes the 4.17 option viable for trust.

well, higher pdif means demand for def down should be higher. you would want, dnc, bst, and rdm in most extreme fights if frailty is nerfed. 3 stacking, unblockable def down sources totalling 76% defense down. even a 1500 def mob only needs 2k attack to cap w/ the ridiculous 5.75 pdif .

dancer /w trusts probably needs iron eater koru moru, and sylvie to get enough attack on some things.

yes


Dancer with trusts can get ridiculous ratio

They called me a madman for keeping around a spare staff, great axe and a GKT to apply defense down regardless of whatever job I'm on (also, exalted C.bow +1 and Gashing Bolts for THF/RNG (too bad Nitric Baselard is never in stock for RDM defense down option)). The minmax pleases me, but only a few can relate.

:)

I generally knows that, but we only have a "hard G" in polish language, so sometimes I forget to switch.

thank you. great to know there is a shell crusher option. and extra reason to keep to /drg instead of /drk for dnc.

I usually keep a def down option available, but didn't think about staff for dancer. I had already ruled it out. Looks like this path was tread years ago and I just was not as focused on dancer.

I knew there was a good reason to hold onto that staff... I just didn't know what it was.

hmm lots of support jobs can get shell crusher.

55 PLD
56 WAR, MNK, BLM, DRG, SMN
57 WHM, BRD, SCH, GEO

including my favorite tanking sub /mnk

Do defense down options such as shell crusher, full break, tachi ageha work best with macc or just acc?

you want both acc and macc

Good thing is Empyrean +3 and AF+4 has both on each of the 5 pieces, making them perfect sets to apply Defense Down.

I take /mnk anytime I take dnc into limbus. its certainly in my general use list.

lasts 1 minute, cant remember if it will overwrite itself or not but if you need the def down it can be worth to just keep a xbow+ammo equipped instead of swapping ammos around

Think it does overwrite itself (it can just keep proccing). This is what I do when I THF stuff; just lock ranged weapon and fire away. Great pulling option for stuff and you get TP, so it's not so bad. Having to re-apply it can be annoying, but that's kinda no different than maintaining Box Step 5 or w/e. Another advantage is bolts will tell you immediately if Defense Down landed or not right in the log. Other Additional-effect DEF Downs like Shell Crusher/Tachi: Ageha/Tenebral Crush etc (although very accurate) don't tell you if they landed or not, so you'd have to wait out the timer to truly know, unless you can visually see/feel the damage difference. The bad thing with bolts is they are highly inaccurate, and I'm not sure if using Magic Accuracy in a midshot set even affects land rate or if its just set. Never tested it.

Anyways, wasn't advocating it was better, just a different cool tool.

Seems like the case when doing demon arrows with and without frazzle3 on rdm. Thankfully you got malignance which is pretty much the defacto ranged midshot anyway, along with null stuff now

don't wanna read the last 40 pages. Anyone got new gear sets or wanna explain DNC to a new player? I been playin mage jobs for years. tryin to learn DNC now to have some new fun~

I would, but I'm too lazy.

This is why Apex/CP/ML parties are still necessary imo. It aids in teaching players muscle repetition and how to play jobs functionally in a relaxed party setting.

You can find some sets on BG WIKI. Job guides > Dancer. You'll probably need to make your own custom Waltz sets with capped DT

DNC Job overview: DD job with massive party utility

Can heal and erase, enfeeble, off-tank, provide movement speed enhancements and some other niche options, but main job function in current game is dealing massive piercing DPS quickly via Climactic Flourish, applying Box Steps for an unresistable -23% defense down, and Haste Samba to give party members very much needed Job Ability Haste.

The best way to learn the job is to go out and kill some Apex monsters for about an hour. You'll learn the general flow and cadence of the job and how it plays in a normal setting.