The Last Dance III: A Dancer's Guide *New*

The W1 and W2 discussion really starts and stops with your ability to engage faster than the person next to you. The best way I find to use climactic on early waves is to build steps on a mob that was about to die and then I can one shot the next 2 mobs I come across and possibly a third. But that requires me being fast and the lag gods being kind. Otherwise it don’t matter what job I’m on or even what daggers I want to use.

Ive topped the Dyna parse with multiple jobs and frankly do it consistently which probably speaks to my connection as much as anything, and then one time lag sucks so bad I’m not really close. Happened last run I was on in fact. It’s why any individual Dyna parse don’t mean much but if you see the same thing over the course of lots of runs you can probably draw a few conclusions. I tend to look more at the dps number to determine what’s actually going on as I know what can typically be expected of some of our DD’s and whenever there is a deviation I know it’s not them.

Twash/cent is my go to but if you can’t WS at near to 1k it’s a problem though id say that’s a problem in general and not specific to the combo, just made worse by the combo.

Yeah, that's all true, but kind of beside the point: Terp gameplay is built around spamming 1k TP WSes because PK and Evis don't benefit from holding TP, so the player is going to spend a lot of time in WS sets regardless of what they're wearing to TP. Your argument - which is fair, though IMHO overstated - is about whether anyone should play Terp DNC at all, not whether they should load up on DT in their TP set the way I do. Wearing a hybrid TP set doesn't solve the problem: it just makes you more vulnerable while you're TPing.

As for WS set vulnerability, you could just not wear Lustratio if you're that worried about it, but like, I gotta say I'm a little confused why we'd start worrying about getting blown up in our WS sets here and now, some 12 years after people started gear-swapping in Windower.

EDIT: and anyway, when I DO die in my WS set like I did the other night because I got lazy in the first room of Omen and pulled 7 mobs, my mistake is not that I WSed, it's that I wasn't using Fan Dance.

I already addressed this point when replying to Simon.
Yes, "in general" or on an asbtract level I absolutely agree that's the rule.
But when you're running with the same exact people for 3 years it's different.
Everyone have the same abilities and when player A and B do so much more damage (on the same jobs) than you when you're on Job1 but then you're on top of them when you're on Job2 and both those jobs have comparable gear quality, then clearly this specific example doesn't work anymore.

Well I actually tried to point out this multiply times. Also if your intension of wearing a hybrid TP set (hybrid tp set is for me what you are wearing too) is too for example easy the job of a healer, then it still has a lot of sense, even when its mixed with very vulnerable WS set. The problem is when you are trying to not get one shooted or heavily debuffed. Then you should probably change Pk set to include more DT/meva or change weapons to stay in hybrid TP set more and not lose that much DPS when doing it.

Not sure what would be the best hybrid PK set tho. Just checking fast, I came up with this:

ItemSet 376881

But that's just the thing: this logic applies to every DD everywhere - maybe SAM should WS in Kendatsuba? - and still doesn't have much of anything to do with my point.

I think you read me as saying I wear DT to turtle, leading you to wonder if I'm just blowing it every time I WS. But I wasn't saying that at all. What I was saying is that Terp DNC, in a world with the Malignance set*, is uniquely positioned via its mechanics (for better or worse; I'd love it if TP scaled PK's damage, obviously) to get everything it needs out of a TP set while wearing 50% DT. Maybe other jobs can self-sc in -50%, I don't know, but the other jobs probably use TP-scaling WSes and so have some incentive not to.

I mean, I don't think it's that complicated: if you get TP fast enough to self-sc and the WSes you use don't benefit from TP overflow, what is the point in getting TP any faster than that?

*it's Malignance specifically that makes this attractive, because of its accuracy and Store TP.

Maybe I was confused then and read that wrong


For me it sounded like you specificaly praising Terpsi build for having amazing survivability as side effect of Malignance being super good for offensive with AM3 anyway (espcially with comparison to other jobs as you suggested), so I pointed out, that its true for TP phase, but WS phase is a really weak point of this build (also in comparison to other jobs) and its easy to die while WSing.

Look I have R15 Terpsi. I always praised it for having great survivability in TP set too, but I noticed that that survivability is kinda overall wasted if you get one shoted during WS, so I try to fix that problem by some brainstorming. Sorry if I have chosen the wrong person to talk about it :P


If you mean TP set, then lots of jobs can do it, some more natural than other, but DNC also has highest natural skillchain damage bonus.

well, I was praising it for allowing me to be insanely *** lazy, mostly, which is a pretty underrated benefit for your 200th solo astral farming run.

I mean, we've got Fan Dance. Dying in a WS set is user error, which I will happily cop to.


The difference is less the ability to do it at all than TP scaling on WSes. Like, say, maybe a MNK for instance could still self-sc after dumping all the multihit off their gear, but if they're using Howling Fist or Raging Fists like my five minutes of research two weeks ago when I was bored suggests they do, obviously there's a benefit in generating TP even faster than what is necessary to make a self-sc: they get TP overflow and the WSes get stronger. Not the case with us!

Even if you aren't self-scing, I think the concept serves as a useful mile-marker for the limitations this game's horrible input lag puts on your ability to just get the WSes out fast enough. Half the time I'm one attack round away from 1k before I even get out of the last WS's animation as it is!

That said, you can mark me down for Team Maybe Throw Some Defensive Stuff In Your WS Set for sure, though in practice I lean more towards -enmity than DT. That one Legion earring rules for Ambuscade.

During Impetus, which is 60% of monks gameplay on long events and 100% in short fights, you will self SC with Shijin > VS > VS. First doesnt scale with TP at all and 2nd similar to Evisceration.
Outside of Impetus you will do TK > TK > TK with footwork or Shijin > TK > Shijin x3 with Godhands. TK scales with TP very well, but you still need to make it in SC window.
There is also Asuran (doesnt scale) -> Howling/Raging/TK/Combo > VS > VS/Final Haven. Again most of them dont scale or/and need to be done within sc window, so close to 1000TP anyway.
Howling Fist solo and Raging Fists solo are used in group content, when people spam WSs and doesnt care to setup SC. Howling is also used when attack is uncapped, because it has a native +50% attack bonus. If you are rare user of monk's mythic, Ascetic's Fury also only scales crit rate with TP.


This is not really a real limit. You still start hitting and can WS again even when animation from previous WS is still playing (it cuts the animation and start new one). Its very common for Liberator DRKs.


+15 enmity build into Fan dance is a problem for this strategy tho, unless you risk it and only use it when you pull hate. Also I typically solo or lowman when using DNC and I actually prefer to tank then.

I started theory crafting for a W3 DNC tank lua a couple months ago and haven't thought about it until this convo came up. The premise was based partly on how bad PK ws set is defensively. Here is the set I made:

ItemSet 376887




Part of the theory crafting was this: what kind of balance can we strike with -dt/multihit AND keep in +enmity? The hands for example concintue to augment Fan Dance's PDTII while also providing enmity and proper att/acc/stats.

In regards to optimizing, taking a look at SimonSes' set Blistering Sallet does immediately jump out to me. But I wanted to provide what I originally came up with maybe as a talking point.

EDIT: Fixed the itemset

Just a quick question.

In the guide it says to use the Ambuscade cape with DA for Evisceration. I'm guessing that is a typo right? Because down below it lists an Evisceration cape using Critical Hit Rate instead.

When using Climactic Rudra would it be best to use Herculean gear with Critical Hit Damage +5% OVER WSD+5%? I guess if that was true it would be in the Climactic Rudra set lists. Several Dancers said just go with WSD instead.

I swear I saw a video that said to stack Crit Damage over that whenever possible (for Climactic Rudra only).

I also am wondering if Blistering Sallet +1 R15 is better than Adhemar Bonnet NQ (no critical hit bonus for the NQ). Just for WSs only.

I'm guessing Critical Hit Damage +5% is better overall than Critical Hit Rate +10%. The Sallet does have a ton of DEX and STR on it though.

PS I just got into playing DNC and am loving it. I was a long time BST, but switched to PUP and am now playing DANCER. Most non-pet jobs are not very interesting to me.

Even after a few weeks of playing DNC I still feel like i'm learning new things about it. It's pretty complicated and I sometimes forget to use certain job abilities. At least it's not boring to play!

First job i've had where I now actually need more than two rows of Macros!

Whats better for Climactic Rudra, critical hit damage or WSD is simply based on what you have more already. If you have 30%WSD and 19% critical hit damage, then 5% Critical hit damage is better than 5%WSD. Its purely based on diminishing returns. Keep in mind DNC has base 19% Critical hit damage when Mastered and critical hit damage from Empy head is completely separate thing, even that it's called the same.

I don't think I've ever actually used it in practice when it really mattered, but when I built my gearswap, I added an Emnity Toggle, and gearset that added +81 Enmity to every JA and Spell I had for every logical sub job. It's obviously not a hybrid set, and drops to only 41 Enmity for Waltz to still cap potency giv/rec, but was fun nonetheless.

When actually tanking/TPing, I tended to favor HP where possible, (once -dt cap is reached obvi) as that felt like the bigger weakness, the inability to eat bigger shots like a dedicated tank, but you're always juggling/sacrificing something it seems.

Dancer tanking always felt like an enigma. When I didn't want hate, I always had it (DD) and when I try to tank, I wasn't doing enough damage to hold hate. If I found the sweet spot between holding hate and damage, it made me susceptible to 1 shots from anything worth tanking in the first place.

In practice, Dnc tanking always felt best, when I'm solo'ing (w/Trust) where you can basically do anything you want, survive, DD, heal, and cycle through all the sets for all the scenarios as they come, with the simple cycle of gear sets and toggles.

In reality with groups, the best case scenario for me, was if something catastrophic happened in an event where the tank dies, I had the gear and flexibility to do enough to hold/tank the mob while we recover, as long as the party isn't going full-razzlefrazzle because they're aware of the situation. Omen, Ambu, Escha, etc

I don't do much dynamis and I know that's the end game for most forum posters, so take my experience with a grain of salt. Got the wins for the gear I wanted, got max rank accessories, and try to avoid it.

I tried to tank Ou on DNC, even with keeping my HP up around 2800, and curing myself for enmity + blink, I just kept taking way to much damage. We just don't have the defense to not take a 1200 crit.

And a side note, I have done W3 melee on DNC, and with AM3 up im basically in a hybrid set, and still have been 1 shot from a MNK NM doing basically anything to me.

Sounds like you just let it absorb too many buffs at 95%. Tanking Ou on even squishier jobs is more than doable.

You had Fan Dance up?

/BLU might work?

Was about to say.

I "tanked" Ou on multiple DD jobs. If I ever had any issues it was about keeping hate over other DDs*, but surviving? Not really.
As a matter of fact I remember doing it on DNC as well, with a DT build and Fan Dance.
I can only imagine it being much easier nowadays with Malignance Gear. Back then I barely had some +3 AF pieces, if at all.
Yes we're talking about that far away in the past :-P



Edit:
* and getting hit by interference or bad moves during WSs.
Yes that sucks badly. I guess it's why Simon and the others discussed having some DT in WS sets.

Tbh for Omen bosses, especially solo, DNC can simply time his WSs. You cant really use Centovente, because without proper buffs, you wont have acc to utilize it. So you will use ilvl offhand. That means waiting for good moment to WS, wont really hurt that much, because Rudra will scale really well.

If you're the only dd sure, if you have three dds wracking on omen bosses not so much I guess

Yeah true, but then you should also have full buffs, including SV dark carols and most aoe from bosses are a joke and physical damage is covered by fan dance really.

Yeah I had Fan Dance, and no, I was not the only DD on the mob. IIRC I wasn't /blu, I was trying to take advantage of the hate gen from curing myself. It was defiantly more magical damage that hurt me more than physical.

Interference can spike up to pretty high values even in 50% DT. Nothing that should oneshot you, but still sometimes it spikes high.

I guess Malignance helps a lot though because in addition to helping you cap DT it offers you a *** of Meva that should reduce the damage of stuff like Interference (I think?).
Malignance Gear wasn't available last time I tanked any Omen bosses on DNC, bet it makes a pretty nice difference.

Malignance drops Interference damage to like 200 lol. Same for all other TP moves from all bosses (beside special moves ofc). Only Fu and Ou overpowered by absorbing way too many buffs, can do anything against Malignance DNC with Fan Dance.

Can someone confirm if the cape for Evisceration in the guide is really supposed to be DA (and not Critical Hit rate +10%)? Is that a typo? If it's NOT a typo, what am I missing?

I was always under the impression that Critical Hit Rate was better for this WS.

So i'm guessing it's best to prioritize Critical Hit Damage over Critical Hit Rate whenever possible for this WS right?

Crit cape for Evisceration although DA is really close.

Yes, for Crit Damage over Crit rate.


https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Community_Dancer_Guide

Is there anything you would change on the guides best TP build? Anything that is outdated?

For Climactic Rudra do most people prioritize WSD with the Maculele Tiara +1? in use?

I see most say go with WSD FIRST, but others I see say prioritize critical hit damage over that. Lots of conflicting info.

In the posted set for this theres only two pieces with critical hit damage on it. The body piece and ambuscade cape.

Is Ishvara Earring really better than Sherida for Climactic Rudra when Macuele Tiara +1 is used?

Also, I don't know why, but I TP way faster when i'm using full Malignance gear. I switched out to what's considered BIS but I feel like i'm hitting things in slow-mo in comparison (Adhemar Bonnet +1, +1 hands, Horos Casaque +3 and max Samnuha Tights). Currently job mastered with no DW gear.

On WKRs with Malignance 5/5 (when tanking) you can pretty much spam darkness skillchains non-stop with haste 2 and Haste Samba 5/5.

On my best parses i'm always in 5/5 Malignance gear.

Critical Hit Damage from Tiara is not regular Critical Hit Damage, but completely unique multiplier, so it doesn't make any diminishing returns for other Critical Hit Damage in gear.




This totally depends on your buff. Most bis TP set has Samurai Roll in mind and not necessarily Sabre Dance up. High Samurai roll (70sTP+) will favor multi-attack gear, while Sabra Dance will diminish multi-attack in gear. So if you dont have Samurai and have Sabra Dance, then store TP gear might actually pull ahead. If you have Samurai roll and no Sabra Dance, it will change. Some pieces like Adhemar hands or relic+3 feet (when facing mob with 5/5 closed position) are probably BIS in both scenario tho.

I made a pair of Karambit earlier to mess around with for fun. I was both impressed and underwhelmed at the same time lol.

ItemSet 377897
This is what I was using for a TP set. There's some improvements I'm sure. Using this set skyrocketed my white damage compared to using daggers (obviously), and was one of the things that impressed me most since I was still getting tp quickly thanks to the store tp+50 for crit hits. Karambit is a white damage monster! as far as weaponskill damage Asuran Fists falls short a little of evisceration and pyrrhic kleos... and miles behind Rudra's Storm.

Asuran Fist: 10-11k range
Pyrrhic (Terp R15/Twash): 12-14k range
Evisceration (Tauret/Twash): 12-14k range
Rudra's (Twash R15/Cento): 33-35k at 1k tp

So Karambit has much higher white damage and decent enough weaponskill damage. The issue is that Twashtar/Cento blows every other option out of the water lol. I didn't use building flourish or boost for the numbers above. After playing around a little I decided to try to push Karambit as far as I could with the gear I had available just for fun. The following 2 I used climactic flourish, building flourish, boost and presto box step (lv.5). Unfortunately... it's not even in the ballpark of Rudra's under the same options lol. 41k vs 99k is quite a dip in damage when climactic is available. It's still a cool weapon to have available though. Whip these babies out when you have amnesia? XD

Judging by those numbers you made a single mistake that made those numbers totally invalid. I assume all your test were done on that poor Eschan Opo-opo right? So, multihit WS, only make number of hits that is required to kill the mob. So if mob has like 10k hp like this Opo-opo probably has and for example Evisceration (same for Pyrrhic) will do 4k per hit, it will only do 3 hits, that kills the mob. This results in highly lowered damage on every multihit WS if mob doesnt have enough hp to take all hits. Its much smaller problem for Rudra, which has like 95% damage on first hit.

Both Pyrrhic and Evis will do easily 30k+ avg in Escha.


Capped haste Karambit is like 60% slower than most daggers combos. While it may look like your white damage was high, its for sure wasn't higher than with Daggers, unless maybe if you used white damage set for Karambit vs storeTP set for daggers. Even then Karambit wouldnt even be close to AM3 Twashtar (especially single wielded).


You dont use climactic for Tornado. Its a 3 hit WS with fTP transferred to all hits (so you basically force crit and apply bonus crit to first hit only, which is 33% of WS or less with multihit proc). You should use Ternary Flourish for it (or maybe striking with +1 empy body).