Random Politics & Religion #37: W/ Bubba The Love Sponge

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Random Politics & Religion #37: w/ Bubba the Love Sponge
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2019-04-19 22:22:10
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Adding to the previous cause it was getting too long.

As long as someone has insurance then they'll get realistic pricing on their healthcare costs. Once they lose that insurance the healthcare provides bill the full amount, not because their cruel malicious greedy ***, but because they can't bill less without Medicare coming after them. The uninsured person might be able to work out a deal if the providers office is small enough to care about one on one discussions, the bigger providers don't have time for that and just tell them to deal with it. The provider knows they won't get all that, but again due to Medicare they need to keep up appearances and send past due bills.

So yeah take whatever "cost" exists on paper and reduce it to half if not a third.

And this is without getting into the incestuous relationships between pharmaceutical companies, the FDA and the formularies (the people coming up with which medications are sold by which pharmacies and at what cost). There is all sorts of conflicts of interest involved there, to put it mildly getting the best price for the customer is ~NOT~ in their best interest because, well the customer is Medicare and not the patient.
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 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2019-04-19 22:38:51
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When I was in college I did a short internship for a very large medical group here in the states. I am legally obligated to leave out the finer details, but I had access to the actual costs of various medical procedures performed in their hospitals.

I was quite surprised to find out that even with all the price gauging that appears to be going on on the surface, a large number of surgeries/procedures are performed at a loss for the hospital. Obviously there are other surgeries/procedures that are more profitable, but the point I'm trying to make is that the astronomical costs of receiving healthcare don't always outweigh the astronomical costs of providing healthcare.

We're hardwired to think that anything expensive is automatically a ripoff and "The Man" is keeping us down, but it's just not always the case.
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2019-04-19 23:28:48
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Bahamut.Ravael said: »
I was quite surprised to find out that even with all the price gauging that appears to be going on on the surface, a large number of surgeries/procedures are performed at a loss for the hospital. Obviously there are other surgeries/procedures that are more profitable, but the point I'm trying to make is that the astronomical costs of receiving healthcare don't always outweigh the astronomical costs of providing healthcare.

For-Profit Hospitals are a bit of a weird place because they are required to perform emergency services at $0 received sometimes, along with having to staff a bunch of specialists 24/7 to be allowed in patient care. Something like %90+ of procedures performed are super cheap, it's that last 10% that's astronomically expensive, like hundreds of thousands of USD expensive.

Someone has been in a car accident and gets rushed to the nearest hospital by the EMT's. That hospital must now immediately treat that person, regardless of insurance status or ability to pay. Because this is a car accident there is a good chance at a surgery being needed along with time in a ICU, both incredibly expensive things.

Those items I posted above were literally read off my EoB's from my benefits provider (not the insurance company). They are required to save them and present them to me for tax purposes. This is not new and every single person I've spoken with who has a HDCP and reads their EoB's says the same thing. Also my mother has worked as a service manager in a for-profit hospital and has attested to the ridiculously inflating of paper charges, knowing full well they'll never be paid and written off as a loss. Hundred's of USD for procedures that costs $25 USD. The hospital isn't expecting to get that money, but they paper bill it knowing the insurance company will just write it down to the actual cost.

If anyone wants to know how much something ~actually~ costs, just look at how much the insurance company pays. They are financially motivated to not pay a dime more then required along with having access to the knowledge required to research the actual market value for services and not the paper value used to milk cash from government.
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By fonewear 2019-04-20 07:57:09
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All this reminds me of how college's charge ridiculous prices to attend school.

The price of college has been going up every year. And people are still dumb as ***...but gotta keep those teachers and administrators and all the other *** happy.
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2019-04-20 12:53:24
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fonewear said: »
All this reminds me of how college's charge ridiculous prices to attend school.

The price of college has been going up every year. And people are still dumb as ***...but gotta keep those teachers and administrators and all the other *** happy.

It's government backed student loans, which are essentially free money for the University along with new-rich Asian families sending their children to the US for education. The Universities are financially driven to charge as much as possible per student seat, and they'll charge whatever people are willing to pay. Since the government hands out free money to anyone, regardless of ability to pay, it becomes like medicare where it's a free-for-all. To make it worse, the children who are deciding which University to attend and which "major" to student are ignorant of the real world and make very bad expensive mistakes.

Every time the government gets involved in something, it's more then likely going to screw it up. Some things absolutely need government involvement like Police, Firefighters, Military and so forth.
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By Nausi 2019-04-20 13:25:34
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Yep everything the government touches turns to ***. Student debt bubble is the next to pop
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 Valefor.Endoq
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By Valefor.Endoq 2019-04-20 13:54:49
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Nausi said: »
Yep everything the government touches turns to ***. Student debt bubble is the next to pop
Not true!
Government is a great and beautiful gift to humanity, but greed has corrupted the hearts of the people and from the people the leaders are born after their own hearts. We have altogether turned from what is righteous, true, and just.
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By Garuda.Chanti 2019-04-20 17:11:02
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There are many practices that lead to inflated medical costs. A common tactic is bundling and unbundling of items used in surgery.

There are bundled kits made up for common procedures like appendectomies containing everything a surgeon needs to preform the procedure. You go in for a different procedure that uses many, but not all of the items in an appendectomy bundle. They charge you for the appendectomy bundle. That's bundling. Its supposed to save you (or your insurer) money.

BUT!!! (You knew there was a but didn't you?) Then comes the unbundling. They bill you separately for each and every item in the appendectomy bundle whether it was used in your procedure or not. At full price. Which is several times the cost of the kit.

There are, of course, programs that do this at a few keystrokes, but it used to be done by accounting department drudges.

This is not to say bundling is always bad, indeed it is necessary.

https://www.verywellhealth.com/what-are-bundled-medical-codes-2615314

http://www.hcpro.com/HIM-212139-859/QA-CMS-considers-unbundling-to-be-fraudulent

https://www.phillipsandcohen.com/upcoding-unbundling-fragmentation/

https://www.classlawgroup.com/whistleblower/healthcare-fraud/upcoding-unbundling/
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 Garuda.Chanti
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By Garuda.Chanti 2019-04-20 19:48:56
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France...

Quote:
Scatter our enemies,
And make them fall
Confound their politics
From "god save the queen"

It seems to work.
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2019-04-20 19:52:01
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Garuda.Chanti said: »
There are many practices that lead to inflated medical costs. A common tactic is bundling and unbundling of items used in surgery.

There are bundled kits made up for common procedures like appendectomies containing everything a surgeon needs to preform the procedure. You go in for a different procedure that uses many, but not all of the items in an appendectomy bundle. They charge you for the appendectomy bundle. That's bundling. Its supposed to save you (or your insurer) money.

BUT!!! (You knew there was a but didn't you?) Then comes the unbundling. They bill you separately for each and every item in the appendectomy bundle whether it was used in your procedure or not. At full price. Which is several times the cost of the kit.

There are, of course, programs that do this at a few keystrokes, but it used to be done by accounting department drudges.

This is not to say bundling is always bad, indeed it is necessary.

https://www.verywellhealth.com/what-are-bundled-medical-codes-2615314

http://www.hcpro.com/HIM-212139-859/QA-CMS-considers-unbundling-to-be-fraudulent

https://www.phillipsandcohen.com/upcoding-unbundling-fragmentation/

https://www.classlawgroup.com/whistleblower/healthcare-fraud/upcoding-unbundling/

Umm ... there is no "kit". It's merely a set price for a procedure that includes all the individual tests, medicines and smaller procedures required. Think of it like a combo meal at a fast food place.

Instead of charging you for the hamburger, the fries and the soft-drink separately, they combine them into a single line item. Bundling is actually a good thing as it lowers the prices for common procedures. Unbundling is when a healthcare provider deliberately chooses to charge each sub-component individually which results in a higher charged cost (this is very illegal). Of course insurance companies spot those sorts of things and will only pay the prearranged bundled cost leaving the patient to cover the difference or raise a stink at the potential medical fraud taking place. But you know who doesn't look over those items, the "insurance" agency staffed with lifetime government workers looking to punch a time-sheet. Most of that unbundling is done to defraud Medicare and get more money then what would be normal.

You guys want to know what protects against that? Having a HDCP with an HSA. By law they are required to provide an itemized cost sheet to my benefits manager that I then get to see as an EOB. I actually get to see all the procedure codes they charged and can look them up and see what they mean along with expected prices. If I believe there is fraud happening I just pickup the phone and contact my benefits provider who is all too happy to make a deal out of it. With a PPO you just got an abstracted "bill" that doesn't list the individual codes and you need to fight to get them.
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 Garuda.Chanti
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By Garuda.Chanti 2019-04-20 19:58:24
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Saevel I am strictly talking about hardware bundling and unbundling because ITS THE MOST COMMON SOURCE OF HEALTH CARE FRAUD.

Garuda.Chanti said: »
...
This is not to say bundling is always bad, indeed it is necessary....
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 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2019-04-20 20:18:15
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Valefor.Endoq said: »
Nausi said: »
Yep everything the government touches turns to ***. Student debt bubble is the next to pop
Not true!
Government is a great and beautiful gift to humanity, but greed has corrupted the hearts of the people and from the people the leaders are born after their own hearts. We have altogether turned from what is righteous, true, and just.

You just said "Not True!" and then proceeded to back up his statement. He was stating an opinion based on the reality of the current situation. He wasn't addressing the utopian ideal of what government should be.
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 Valefor.Endoq
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By Valefor.Endoq 2019-04-20 21:51:07
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Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Valefor.Endoq said: »
Nausi said: »
Yep everything the government touches turns to ***. Student debt bubble is the next to pop
Not true!
Government is a great and beautiful gift to humanity, but greed has corrupted the hearts of the people and from the people the leaders are born after their own hearts. We have altogether turned from what is righteous, true, and just.

You just said "Not True!" and then proceeded to back up his statement. He was stating an opinion based on the reality of the current situation. He wasn't addressing the utopian ideal of what government should be.
It’s not the fault of government. Maybe Nausi should be more specific if that is what he meant, as you say.
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2019-04-20 22:52:35
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Valefor.Endoq said: »
It’s not the fault of government.

The government is run by people. If the people in government are corrupt, the government is corrupt. You cannot separate the two.

Look, I get what you're trying to go for. I'm a big fan of the Constitution and the way that our government was set up, especially when compared to what else is out there. That being said, you seem to be a fan of an expanded federal government role, which is decidedly NOT what the Founding Fathers had intended.

Nausi had it right. The government screws up a lot of stuff that would be better off left alone and/or handled by the individual states.
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 Valefor.Marthastewert
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By Valefor.Marthastewert 2019-04-20 23:20:22
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Valefor.Endoq said: »
I actually did not even think of the constitution.
What I was referring to is government in general, a system of order and authorities.
Government: It’s a good thing.
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2019-04-20 23:25:53
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Compared to total anarchy? Well, um, yeah. Nobody here is advocating for that.
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2019-04-21 09:05:53
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Valefor.Marthastewert said: »
Valefor.Endoq said: »
I actually did not even think of the constitution.
What I was referring to is government in general, a system of order and authorities.
Government: It’s a good thing.

The smaller and less intrusive Government is the better.

Asura.Saevel said: »
Every time the government gets involved in something, it's more then likely going to screw it up. Some things absolutely need government involvement like Police, Firefighters, Military and so forth.

Governments are a bad thing. We keep them because the other option is even worse.
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By fonewear 2019-04-21 10:48:50
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Happy Easter all.

Is Drumpf finished yet....survey says no !
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By Garuda.Chanti 2019-04-21 14:46:55
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Looks Like a Comedian Crushed It in Ukraine
Exit polls suggest Volodymyr Zelenskiy just won the national election


Quote:
(Newser) – A comedian whose only political experience consists of playing a president on TV appeared headed for a landslide victory in Ukraine's real-life presidential election Sunday, the AP reports. Exit-poll results released after voting stations closed showed sitcom star Volodymyr Zelenskiy receiving an extraordinary 73.2%—or nearly three out of every four votes cast—to President Petro Poroshenko's 25.3%....
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By Valefor.Endoq 2019-04-21 14:51:07
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High charisma leaders kind of put me on high alert
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By fonewear 2019-04-21 17:10:29
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Garuda.Chanti said: »

Looks Like a Comedian Crushed It in Ukraine
Exit polls suggest Volodymyr Zelenskiy just won the national election


Quote:
(Newser) – A comedian whose only political experience consists of playing a president on TV appeared headed for a landslide victory in Ukraine's real-life presidential election Sunday, the AP reports. Exit-poll results released after voting stations closed showed sitcom star Volodymyr Zelenskiy receiving an extraordinary 73.2%—or nearly three out of every four votes cast—to President Petro Poroshenko's 25.3%....

Ukraine is a joke
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By fonewear 2019-04-21 17:11:16
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Live look at the Presidential race in Ukraine

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By fonewear 2019-04-21 19:27:25
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Valefor.Marthastewert said: »
Valefor.Endoq said: »
I actually did not even think of the constitution.
What I was referring to is government in general, a system of order and authorities.
Government: It’s a good thing.

Martha Stewart shouldn't you be in jail for insider trading.
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 Valefor.Marthastewert
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By Valefor.Marthastewert 2019-04-21 21:09:50
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fonewear said: »
Valefor.Marthastewert said: »
Valefor.Endoq said: »
I actually did not even think of the constitution.
What I was referring to is government in general, a system of order and authorities.
Government: It’s a good thing.

Martha Stewart shouldn't you be in jail for insider trading.
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By Garuda.Chanti 2019-04-22 14:51:46
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Secrecy, Self-Dealing, and Greed at the N.R.A.
The organization’s leadership is focussed on external threats, but the real crisis may be internal.

The New Yorker

TLDR: The NRA is in deep financial do-do*. As in playing fast and loose enough with donations that they may loose their tax exempt status.

*Its so bad that they no longer provide free coffee and water to HQ staff.
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By Nausi 2019-04-22 15:33:29
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All eyes now on Barr. As he moves to expose the attempted coup, the perpetrators will do everything they can to discredit him.

Thats what you’re watching unfold.
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 Garuda.Chanti
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By Garuda.Chanti 2019-04-22 18:20:02
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So what's new? Or changed?
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 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2019-04-22 20:58:43
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Garuda.Chanti said: »
So what's new? Or changed?

Pelosi's life got harder.

That's about it.
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By Nausi 2019-04-23 08:19:08
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Whats changed? Dems are committing suicide.
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