Is CaladBolg Worth Making If I Already Have .....

You cant be serious. First of all, you obviously build your TP set much different for AM up with Mythic. You push much more sTP instead of MA there, but you know this for sure. I just feel like you can't accept of being wrong. Fighter's roll is another thing your poped out of nowhere to justify your initial claim. Even with fighter's roll tho, Liberator will have like 25% faster TP per sec and that's including hits after first (first hit after WS is no affected by delay at capped haste, so both Calad and Liberator will hit first hit after WS at the same time, despite Liberator having higher delay and above 25% doesn't account for that, so in reality it's far more than 25% since you only need like 2 rounds after WS, to WS again).

Not to mention Insurgency will have on avg like 381 TP return assuming +80stp from cor roll), while Caladbolg only 238.

Liberator with AM set should have on avg around 813 TP per round, while Caladbolg only 542, which means on avg Liberator can WS right after first round after WS, while Caladbolg needs 2 rounds. That is massive difference in WS frequency (and that's with Fighter's roll. Without Fighter's roll, Liberator only drops to 794, while Caladbolg drops to 472). You could actually hold TP to almost 2k with Liberator and WS only very slightly slower than Caladbolg at 1200-1300TP.

Any day, any time. lets place some gils on it

Torc is a stronger ws that massively benefits from wsdmg, more so than insurgency. Calad actually is triple dmg proc 50% of the time and works on multihit. Torc generally hits harder at 1k tp than insurgency does at 2k tp.

Calad is going to win this, no matter how much people want scythe to win.

It was already crushingly strong, the Dyna buff just pushed it harder. At the end of the day, Insurgency's WSC is what defeats it completely, 20/20 is pitiful.

It's not about which will win. It's about WS frequency, which plays a huge role here and was generally ignored by Saevel in his comparison, while he scolded me for exactly the same on different occasion.


No it wont. Not even close. Torc at 1000TP will hit for ~34k. Insurgency at 2000TP will hit for around ~42k


I agree this might be the factor that makes Caladbolg win. Assuming Calad will on avg hit 3.5 times during one WS cycle, AM3 will potentially add around ~6100 white damage. Overall white damage might be around ~4500 higher with Caladbolg (assuming 4 hits with Liberator between WSs, which means intentionally holding TP to 2000).

You definitely can't say that one can beat another easily. It's a very close call and let's not forget that Liberator beside pure DPS, has also massive macc (+80), much better accuracy and better absorbs.

Yes I can, I own all the drk weapons.

At R15? Show me the parse that proves it than, if you want to prove it this way and not with math. Just remember that Liberator requires STP set for AM up and totally different WS set for 1000TP and 2000TP.

R15 lib and only R10 calad, calad still wins

I have BiS lib sets and multiple variations of calad sets.

Show you a parse? you realize how easily that can be skewed right? I mean I can go out there on thf pop a few gimp rudra and say I was on lib drk, then get on drk maxbuff vs t1 zitah and put out completely different numbers.

I am not going to play some petty game with some guy that is debating is opinion about something when I actually have the experience and knowledge. I know first hand calad wins, if you don't want to believe me, go for it. I don't care. I will continue using calad knowing I deal more damage regardless of your feelings.

Or you could act like normal person instead and go fight same mob with same buffs and show your TP and WS sets.

If you think I will believe you, because you eyeball that Caladbolg wins (especially that you might be referencing to situation when you solo and then skillchain damage from Torc>Torc will massively pull ahead overall damage) and provide no proofs, then sorry, but I obviously won't believe you. I don't know you, you provide no details, so I have no reason at all to trust your judgment.

I already told you, I don't care.

Op watching thread like:

OP was Vize. He's probably searching Google "is Caladbolg worth making if i already have ragnarok?" and wondering why nothing is coming up.

i found this

I do love how this has become a lib vs cala post lol. Lib wasn't even on op mind and we fighting about lib vs cala.

That’s how bad Rag is right now.

My first response was purely about Ragnarok vs Calad, then I got triggered by Saevel comparing weapons by comparing their WS avg, when some time ago he was scolding me for drawing conclusions from avg Upheaval numbers vs WSs on other jobs, because WS frequency is super important. Apparently it's not super important when he is the one drawing conclusions :P

I saw those post personally I'm a cala man myself I wanna see the cala vs lib thing honestly. I just think cala wins the fight but it's not by much in my eyes.

I'm with you 100% of the way I dont think rag is a good weapon sure when acc was important maybe but if you doing high end stuff you got buffs.

I only have Calad myself, so I'm not biased towards Lib for sure (not in the process of building it too). I just can't ignore facts and facts are that Liberator with AM3, generates TP way faster than Caladbolg, so comparing WS numbers at the same TP range like Saevel did is just misleading. Liberator will pump way more WSs in the same time, or will pump same amount of WSs, but at much higher TP.

Saying that 20/20 WSC is something holding Insurgency down massively is also misleading. AFAIK Insurgency base damage form weapon + WSC is 555 in optimal WSD set. Torcleaver with Caladbolg has 696. That's 25% advantage for Torc. It's quite a lot, but it's not a gap that can't be countered with Liberator advantages.

Lastly showing avg fTP without including AM3 proc is also misleading. Especially when he pointed out several times in WAR's thread, that MA is quite important for Upheaval damage (Ws with similar mechanic to Insurgency).

I really respect Saevel a lot, but not to the point when I would blindly eat everything that he wrote. His comparison between Calad and Liberator is clearly lacking the deeper analysis, that he normally apply to his other conclusions. Maybe it's because he is not really interested in this specific topic.

Ragnarok will always be better in High end game content, if they add something like legion or Delve 1.0 pre ILVL buffs but i dont see it ever happening again

Care to explain? Rag was good because resolution but with the addition of crazy amounts of wsdmg Torcleavor has pulled ahead.

Ya I'm in the same boat as you taint I need it explained why people think that. I know lib gets tp faster I dont have it but it's still not gonna hit harder than cala I feel. I could be wrong but I'm not sold lib is better. I need to see people math because I have no real problem getting to 1k tp fast people are making it seem like to is getting 2k tp before cala even can see 1k tp.

No love for PLD!? They can use both rag and cala!

Liberator vs Caladbolg, Lib wins. They are so close in damage but I enjoy Scythe playstyle so much more. To hell with your numbers lol.

When LR drops everyone should be swapping to Apoc.

So Lib/Apoc is for inventory.

Cala/Apoc is for min/max. (JKish)

Aside from damages in which calad is the obviously the winner ~ liberator can alter how the job can be played (like how apoc does) such as being a DD but also doing crowd control in low man dyna as /blm

Lib or bust!

I've seen you guys talk about that quite often, I've wanted an Apoc ever since I watched a JP DRK use one in pre-ToAU days. Have both Lib and Cala at R15 so time to make an Apoc! F-it might as well make Redmeption while I'm at it lol.

DRK/BLM!!!?? This isn't the dunes! CRAZY!

Shockwave would like to have a word with you.

Ever since the buff it works amazingly well.

True. But drk/blm with a lib is a niche playstyle in this scenario