Discussion: How To Make BLM More Relevant

That's how it usually ends up isnt it? Even when sch is behind in nuke dmg the dot dmg padding helix gives tends to catch them up, the few tools blm has to push them ahead tends to be stuff that pushes everyone else ahead too, such a burn's INT down and -ja's ele dmg up

The "SCH vs BLM" continuum reminds me a lot of the "COR vs RNG" one. As the more hybrid versions of the pure DD jobs get stronger offensively, the desire and space that BLM and RNG get to occupy shrinks. At least RNG has the unique aspects of Trueflight and Hover Shot over COR- what does BLM truly get over SCH besides -aja spells and T6's? The job really does deserve something that keeps it the most desired elemental damage dealer....because unlike all the other jobs that can lay down nukes, BLM doesn't bring much else to the setup beyond that.

On the topic of things brought to the table from a nuking perspective: SCH has Ebullience which gives a 38/41% dmg bonus (on top of MDMG+40) via Arbatel Bonnet +2/3, which is already what you'd likely be using to nuke in unless you were MBing without ebullience (in which case I believe it would be Peda+3 for the MBBII+4). Ebullience can be used every 33 seconds, and depending on the length of the fight / nuking rate, can be used every nuke.

Compare that to Cascade which has a 1 minute recast, but is reliant on TP to determine dmg bonus, which caps at 30 and can not be modified in any way.

BLM does have a hefty source of MBB though, an extra 4% via traits over sch as well as the 20% from JP.

Also a big f off to SimonSes and his dumbass suggestion that BLM has been fixed because "in Sortie theres a WSDMG nerf for 10 seconds after a WS" or whatever it was. Big massive f off.

A fix should never EVER involve gutting something else with massive nerfs. Thats not a fix, thats nerfing other stuff to the point of oblivion. Its embarrassing you're even suggesting such a thing is a fix. That kind of garbage takes us back to mid 2000's Tanaka XI where every adjustment was a massive nerf.

The only way to "fix" elemental magic is rewrite the entire game or nerf dd, so, yeah

Gets a bit sillier when there was a time when a puppet could compete in raw power, may had lasted longer if the AI was capable of double bursting natively. So like rng vs cor but also in comes sam keeping up too.


Pretty much

Nah don't need to nerf anything or rewrite anything, I know it's hard for people to understand but mechanically only two things are holding elemental magic casters back. First is the 5 second damage wall, that is a hard stop and easy for them to remove. Second is the 3s global cooldown after casting any spell, that prevents rapid spamming of low tier nukes and should be reduced to 1~2 seconds to match JA and WS global delays.

Those two alone would vastly improve elemental magic strategies. Either free nuking or having a SCH assisting with SC's that everyone busts on together.

Puppets were particularly funny cause they effectively had unlimited mp in an age where mp recovery was still difficult

Unless you ramp up the numbers some free nuking is pitiful as far as dmg goes, you take away the wall and you could get some synergy going and burst for days, but its just as likely to be busted in the other direction. Why id rather it just be tied to a ja or spell effect, since theres no way theyll mechanically change anything with whatever team they have left, so the compromise would be just allowing it to open more beyond 1 jobs sp2 and 1 other jobs ja.


Was essentially a better avatar minus the tight rope of maneuver burden, still funny how many ways they picked apart what few roles blm has over its life

And yet you're so opposed to them getting rid of the stupid nuke wall because you're utterly convinced "it will make mages too stronk".

Not even close, try again

The receipts are there if you go back to pages 7-12


And stuff around there. You were vehemently against the nuke wall being removed and prefer nerfs because

You might want to try reading then, if you think I said it makes blm too good.

It literally says in the quote; not my opinion,and not because it's good.

But have we considered nerfing BLM even more? I think it might be for the greater good, just look at the ***the BLM threads have turned into from just having one new relevant event that caters to BLMs. Maybe we were better off when BLM was irrelevant.

Actually its very simple and alrdy what SE does atm

SE just uses DT to decide one setup vs the other
> Physical Dmg Taken
> Magic Dmg Taken
Such decides not only if MB is practical but also SC as well being, for instance, Odyssey NM take very little SC Dmg whatsoever at all.

I think its a pipe dream hoping that SE will ever Delete the Nuke Wall from FFXI being they alrdy invested RUN and BLM jas into "countering" such as is so yeah. No way SE will make Rayke useless nor rewrite Subtle Sorcery anytime soon

I fully expect SE to just keep doing what they been doing since it seems to work from their perspective. If it aint broke dont fix it.

Do I want the Nuke Wall DELETED? Ofc yeah.
Will it happen? Unlikely tbh

Hint; that's rewriting the game. Setting specific special conditions.

Remember how badly the monk thread went on and on about how ***the job was in it's current state pre h2h update? Yeah. Happens every time we get a "those job needs an update BADLY" Thread

Sucks we cant seem to recreate that result for nin, oh well

Also looking back, I basically created Ongo, so I guess you can thank me later. (for giving BLM something)

NIN doesn't really need anything besides better average players. It's already one of the strongest physical and hybrid jobs in the game along with having the best survivability of any other melee.

Oh i know its relatively fine, still woulda liked overtuned katana ws like what ended up with mnk when both at best just needed a small nudge. But thats not the SE way

Biggest nin problem is getting shafted on gear imo

But NIN already has an overtuned Katana WS it's called Blade: Chi.

Problem with NIN is that most people that play it either are terrible or don't have the gear to support it, and those that do only use it when it's a good choice to do so not just because they can. Doesn't help that NINs most interesting weapon is locked behind bonanza.

But back on topic. SE please make BLMs a shiny golden god of pure destruction so that an army of 12 Taru BLMs can gleefully do the /panic dance after they wipe out whatever poor NM stands before them in the blink of an eye from everyone nuking the same spell all at once.

Oh, I thought we were complaining about removing the nuke wall to make BLM more relevant. My bad.

Either way, BLM is still affected by the nuke wall unless you're only bursting once per skillchain. My Sortie group (like most groups now-a-days) consists of BLM, GEO, SCH x2, so we land 8+ nukes per magic burst window, and all but two of which are hit with a 60% penalty.

My point was that all nuking jobs are technically capable of producing 6-figure damage before penalty and cap, so it's not like 10 years ago when your 10k MB was getting floored to 4k damage. It's more like 99,999 getting reduced to 60-80k (i.e., the effective wall penalty is less than 60%).

The nuke wall effectively forces mages to wait a few seconds between skillchains, or be penalized for not letting the nuke wall dissipate before the next burst window opens. You can argue for or against that. Some people just want to spam nukes nonstop, others enjoy the "strategic" component of timing spells appropriately. I just don't think that removing the nuke wall instantly fixes BLM. On the contrary, it would lower the bar for prerequisite knowledge of game mechanics, thereby making the job even more "braindead" than some think it is now.
Current meta: Coordinate perfect timing to overcome nuke wall penalties (COR and RUN are involved in this effort as well as the mages)
Meta in the absence of nuke wall: Cycle through your nukes nonstop and occasionally some will coincide with a magic burst window by pure chance.

The problem is ninja specific gear because is a lot of things, and none of them are definable.

Ninja can nuke, gets treated like a partial caster with the exception of adding MAB to EMPY Set.

NIN can evasion tank, receives no addition enmity on gear.

NIN Could physical DD but has no good physical weaponskills on katana(primary weapon) so they resort to Savage blade, but still no pdl for empy.

NIN is great at hybrids and it's wonderful, too bad empy lacks the only Stat that would help so nyame b= Nin jse?

In regards to making blm relevant make elemental debuffs self refresh and stack between blm's and blm becomes big bad winner for life. 12 taru stoneja, 12 taru stone 6, omega lul damage.

Courtesy of nyame, sure

No my beautiful, it's very beautiful, job is perfect and amazing just the way it is. You need to accept my unique and special job that is totally fun and competitive in all game content without criticism.

From earlier


The wall is 5s starting from the first nuke that deals that elements damage and does not refresh. When the nuke lands, for the next 5s any other nuke will take -30% then -60% damage, the moment that 5s has passed the next nuke will deal full damage and generate another 5s wall. The game as a global cool down of 3s on all spells, making it impossible for a single BLM to nerf themselves unless they use low tier nukes (or QM procs, but who casts in QM).

Of course everyone else is just standing around because they don't want to inflict a 30~60% penalty on the primary damage dealer. Overall the total party damage of this strategy is limited to a single BLM. Removing the wall would increase the total party damage thus making this strategy more competitive vs other strategies. This is an MMO not Dark Souls, everything must be considered within the larger picture.

I'm actually interested in trying to find the testing on different elements as I seem to remember, though could be wrong, the reduction being on a per-element basis.

It is indeed the case. Gravitation SC and MB w/ Impact + Geohelix at Full Damage

So technically speaking you could actually deliberately set off the "Nuke Wall" on purpose but then Nuke the other corresponding Element to the SC multiple times taking Full Damage? Idk tbh actually. Its just the question tbh now that you mentioned it.

Did I trigger the "Nuke Wall" via landing Darkness MB so subsequent Darkness Dmg is Reduced via -30% into -60% and Stone still ignores the Reduction after multiple Stone MB?
I seriously doubt it tbh but idk.

For Instance vs Kei for ex.
—> Takes 150% Dmg vs Aero and 100% Dmg vs Thunder during Fire Mode

Does that actually mean we could deliberately trigger the Nuke Wall via Thunder MB then simply have everyone else instead cast Aero after the fact?

Never even thought to attempt such before tbh.
In my own mind I cannot imagine SE simply failed to realize such a loophole would exist when initially implementing the actual “Nuke Wall” to begin w/.

My guess is NO you cannot simply trigger the 30% Reduction vs Thunder then simply cast Aero after the fact. You will do Full Damage though via the initial MB of two totally different Elements. That is for certain.

What about alternating Elements in sync…..
—> I am only assuming the actual “Nuke Wall” itself negates everything of that Element after 1st initial MB of that particular Element via 30% into 60% Reduction for 5s

Meaning you cannot MB Thunder > MB Aero > MB Thunder again attempting to bypass the Nuke Wall itself. That would be my guess.
—> I never mistook SE for a bunch of fools before so NOT going to seriously do such now.

You do Wind. I do Thunder. That does indeed actually work.
Never actually pondered the idea of having 12+ BLM all doing MB via 1 simple SCH doing SC but ofc w/ routine 18 man setup for a MB Strategy.

I am certain SE did indeed realize such which is exactly why such exists in the 1st place to begin w/ cuz they immediately Deleted Meteor from the Game once they added the Nuke Wall concept. Meteor wasnt even practical to begin w/ and I never actually got any use out of such.

Back then we couldnt come close to 99,999 MBD.
Even further back in 75 era we couldnt even fill our Alliance w/ BLMs cuz nobody had Matt's Cap let alone Abyssea or Escha to burn their Jobs.