Opinions On Rank Of Best Damage Dealers

That would fall more under solo than the best DD. Sure a RDM can kill a mob on its own that maybe another job can't, but let's say you take the rdm and put him in a group on that said mob. The rdm certainly won't be doing the most dmg

Then this is a unanswerable question. ^^

I'm going to have to say on which is best dd as being situational, depends on mob.

That's soloing. Best DD usually means high dmg output.

heres a fun fact...
samurai can 2 shot birds...
since were talking bout dnc>sam on lolbirds.
ummmmmmmmm.
i think a dnc could "maybe 6 shot" a bird
where a sam can get almost a 4 hit with right penta thrust set..
if we talking bout birds....sam #1
keep in mind that crits can break high numbers 300-500 dependent on crits, lol so i do believe an average dnc dancing edge even have prob's breakin 700.
i have 0 merits on polearm and have no problem doin over 2k on birds with bard and corsair, although i dont think i'd ever take a dnc to bird camp based on the fact there tp based dd/healers so i think idea of dnc at bird camp is relatively a bad idea.
iunno but w/e this is a opinionated forum with opinionated players so meh...

i think it's lol also how people run parcers on things like birds >.>
why not use a parcer on kirin and see.
anyone can grab a gondo or tomoe and slaughter birds for big numbers....
thats like giving a retard a bazooka loaded and say its a toy in a populated area......

Everyone knows you don't take a dnc for healing. You take them for haste samba, which makes them a very worthwhile addition to any merit pt (though their direct dmg is still lol)

ya but if they get feather *** kinda sucks id rather use bard corsair and rdm...maybe im traditional but meh.and soon all u gonna need in a merit pt gonna be 2 summoners lol.....

You use them all, lol. Brd corsair rdm and dnc. Top it off with two top quality DDs w/ pimped haste builds and ***melts like butter.

Wow..I am just coming to this and I might be a little late but ppl really waste a spot in a merit to invite Dnc for Haste Sambe. ORLY!

If you can spare a spot for dnc find another brd or if you already have 2 brds get a cor. Brd brd Cor DD DD Rdm. DD's could be a sam and a hooked up drk and get ready to slaughter anything. 4 songs and 2 rolls is hella sexy.

Side Note: I don't mean to "dis" on dnc..i love the job I think it has its place in FF but a job that doesn't Burn TP doesn't really belong in a TP burn merit. That's just my .02 tho

Or how about 1 brd 1 cor 1 dnc instead of 2 brds? 10% haste when you're already at such a high level of haste will easily beat out double minuet from the 2nd brd.

Haste, hasso, march, march, haste samba, haste gear > haste hasso march march haste gear + double minuet.

Hasso, Haste, March x2 is what, 45% Haste? 25% in gear is 70%. 10% from Haste Samba puts you at 80%. The jump from 70-80% is a 50% improvement to a job's DPS. You're making up for the missing DD and adding in the DNC's DPS, which is far more than a second BRD could add. DD DD DNC RDM BRD COR is the best non-pl'd 6-man meripo available.

If you get feather tickled it really isn't that hard to gain TP.

meditate is 3 minutes without merits, reverse flourish is 60 tp without merits but 75 with merits. if you're going to count merits of one job you can't discount merits of another. Also, click my profile and view my screenshot... I almost NEVER hit below 1100 on birds with dnc, and that's WITHOUT building flourish. With building flourish, i can land 1800+ ws's when i get 8 hits, i've done as high as mid 1900's. You should also note that reverse flourish has a 30 second cooldown, and you can get 6 finishing moves (5 is the max, but 6 would be possible if it weren't) within 30 seconds, meaning EVERY 30 seconds a dnc can gain 75 TP just from the job ability. That's practically 2 ws's in a row. Let alone the existence of wild flourish which lets us solo sc with every single WS we do. My average SC is about 400-600 on birds in merit pt's, so you may as well tack that damage on top of the 1100-1400 average ws's as well.

Also, Sam is ranked B- with polearms and Dnc is ranked B+ with dagger. Technically, Dnc has more base attack with daggers than sam does with polearms. Sam without /war doesn't get attack bonus. Dnc gets evasion bonus III and accuracy bonus II which makes up for their B+ skill in the acc field, putting it a little above an A+ for acc. Considering evasion bonus III as well, a dnc technically has more evasion than a Nin. Evasion has nothing to do with DPS, but I'm just throwing it out there.

Can your sam ws 2x every 40 seconds? I doubt it, considering a sam with 25% haste gear and hasso active has a 292 delay with great katana, even higher delay with polearm, thus swings once every 4.8 seconds, that means with a 5 hit build, they'd STILL need 48 seconds of auto attack to reach 100 tp twice. that 8 second difference means a good dancer can ws 20% faster than a sam can with an absolutely amazing build.

Also is it even possible for a sam to have a 5 hit build with 25% haste gear on also? I don't think it is. I may be wrong, I'm not a sam. But I highly doubt the fact they could have both with a great katana. So since the most they'd have with 25% haste is a 6 hit build, they'd be ws'ing once every 28.8 seconds, meaning a total of almost 57 seconds... Pretty big difference.

I'm a fully merited SAM with 8/8 Polearm and close to top gear for TP/WS on polearm and I call *** on this.

Post a recent parser or this never happened and will not be taken in consideration.



Sams should always be /war in meritpos. Anything other then they are using the job to its full potential. And Sams can gear themselves to reach very very close to 95% Acc along while keeping a 5hit with a good amount of haste.



Yes. You're not accounting for songs, haste, and rolls. Trust me, a sam can outtp a Dnc. Our meditate is 2:30 fully merited and we get 160tp back assuming we have the AF. Which gains more and quicker then your florish.

SAM has higher base attack than DNC due to 2-hand bonuses and has a faster rate of WS due to higher potential Haste, Meditate generating more TP, and DNC being unable to put all their TP towards WS.

"Also, Sam is ranked B- with polearms and Dnc is ranked B+ with dagger. Technically, Dnc has more base attack with daggers than sam does with polearms."
Wrong. Sam gets .75 attack for every 1 str, dnc gets .5 attack for every 1 str. That easily makes the difference

"meditate is 3 minutes without merits, reverse flourish is 60 tp without merits but 75 with merits. if you're going to count merits of one job you can't discount merits of another."
Reread my post, I counted merits. the 60 was from /sam's meditate


"I almost NEVER hit below 1100 on birds with dnc, and that's WITHOUT building flourish. With building flourish, i can land 1800+ ws's when i get 8 hits, i've done as high as mid 1900's. You should also note that reverse flourish has a 30 second"
And my average is always over 1.4k with my high being 2803, your point?


"
Can your sam ws 2x every 40 seconds? I doubt it, considering a sam with 25% haste gear and hasso active has a 292 delay with great sword, even higher delay with polearm, thus swings once every 4.8 seconds"

Wrong. Haste is exponential. The more haste you have the better it gets. You are forgetting the 10% you get from the dnc's samba (if you're competing w/ a dnc in your pt you're going to have samba), 20% from marches, and 15% from haste spell

25% haste gear + march + samba + march + hasso + haste = 80% haste
480 x .2 = 96 delay.

So let's say you have dnc w/ what do you use? Azoth/Behemoth+1? (210 + 201 = 411 delay).

DW II + suppa = 20% DW reduction
411 x .8 = 328.8 delay. Dnc can get 70% haste (capped haste gear same buffs as sam, minus hasso)

328.8 x .3 = 98.64 delay

98.64 > 96.

Dnc attacks slower.

Dnc can hit haste gear cap too. Dnc also does not have to heal in merit pt's, although they can replace a RDM as main healer very easily also. There's very little tp wasted by a properly played merit pt dancer. For every 10 tp you use on your debuffs you gain back 25 essentially, from reverse flourish. You debuff 3 times, you gain 75 tp. All the TP we use generates MORE tp than it costed when we debuff a mob (our evasion debuff actually aids more for party accuracy than one madrigal does).

Also in response to Geldric: Haste spell, songs, and such also benefit dancer, meaning we WS even faster under those effects too. Don't try to throw that out there as a SAM benefit, it's a party benefit.

and dnc gets what? 5 tp/hit? If you have a 100% DA rate (which you don't) you hit 4 times a round, and that makes it even w/ sam tp/attack round rate. Anything less tahn 100% DA on dnc, means you get less tp/round than sam and are attacking slower. I call BS when you say you can out TP a good sam. Maybe a crappy one.

Hasso. SAM is faster.

no, haste is exponential. the more haste you have to begin with, the more benefit you get from the added haste. Thanks to hasso, sam will have more haste than dnc before adding the other haste buffs. Therefore, sam will get more of a benefit than dnc will from the added haste.

Dnc has haste samba. 10% attack speed. Same amount as hasso gives, meaning dnc has a FASTER attack speed.

The SAM is getting that Samba too. Are you trolling or really this bad at math?

Made a post on Hasso, considering Hasso doesn't get attributed to Dnc as your haste gets attributed to us, and your correct on it being a party benefit, the songs, rolls, and spell, but vegetto just said what I was about to post but shorter.

"Dnc has haste samba. 10% attack speed. Same amount as hasso gives, meaning dnc has a FASTER attack speed."
Yes they do, but guess what, sam gets that too. if you are in a damage competition with a sam in a merit pt, there is no way that you are going to be be getting haste samba and he won't be getting it. But guess what, hasso does not work the same way. You will not be getting it.

Meaning SAM benefits a TON from DNC's evasion debuffs, defense debuffs, haste debuffs, and a proper dnc can rival their damage output. DNC is like cor, but better on the DD portion when you gear it right. You shouldn't be ws'ing in less than 550 attack before buffs.

Plus we DO have building flourish, it's a little tricky to use if you're using reverse flourish to maximize your TP gain, but if you choose to use it you get a huge acc, attack, and crit rate bonus on your next WS. You can increase the amount given with merits also.

"Meaning SAM benefits a TON from DNC's evasion debuffs,"
Nope
"defense debuffs, haste debuffs"
Yes
"and a proper dnc can rival their damage output. "
No. Sam gets TP faster, attacks faster, does will WS more times, will do higher average dmg/ws, ect.

We get a ton of buffs from you but does that mean you will outparse us?

Pretty much this. I love having a dnc in my party. I love the haste samba ect, but that does not mean they are a better DD than sam, sorry.