Opinions On Rank Of Best Damage Dealers

Eorzea Time
 
 
 
Language: JP EN FR DE
users online
Forum » FFXI » General » Opinions on rank of best damage dealers
Opinions on rank of best damage dealers
First Page 2 3 ... 15 16 17 ... 25 26 27
 Unicorn.Tarowyn
Offline
Server: Unicorn
Game: FFXI
user: Tarowyn
Posts: 737
By Unicorn.Tarowyn 2009-10-30 00:37:44
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Nightfyre said:
307*0.11=33*2=66+3=69+1.25+(10*0.83=8)=78.25
292*0.11=32*2=64+3=67+2+(16*0.83=13)=82

Is it me or are you missing a very important .5 in there? (For actual modifer)

307*0.11=33*2=66+3=69+1.25+(10*0.83*.5=4)=74.25
292*0.11=32*2=64+3=67+2+(16*0.83*.5=6)=75

There are also two things not taken into account (though one not be true), the affect on atk that blu magic has and possible fSTR caps. I'm not sure about the 2nd as I may simply have never seen testing on weapon rank for blu magic.
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
Offline
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
user: Nightfyre
Posts: 11681
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2009-10-30 00:45:38
Link | Quote | Reply
 
aaaaaaaaaaaahahaha. *** me, I screwed up. Results still come out favoring Morrigan's, though much more narrowly. Thanks, I'm gonna go back and fix that now. I really should stop doing math while multitasking, this always happens...

Attack doesn't seem to affect spells (though there's some form of a pDIF roll) and fSTR caps at 22 for all spells but Smite of Rage per VZX's data, which means your STR has to be 84+ above the target's VIT to cap. Not happening on anything worthwhile. D itself has a cap but it's unknown for spells above level 60, ie we haven't hit it in tests and it may not be reachable for these spells.
 Unicorn.Tarowyn
Offline
Server: Unicorn
Game: FFXI
user: Tarowyn
Posts: 737
By Unicorn.Tarowyn 2009-10-30 00:54:07
Link | Quote | Reply
 
I don't mean attack attack, blu magic skill is supposed to function as the atk as far as I was aware of. Though for cannonball it shouldn't matter since def is acting as atk.

Wtf, 22 fSTR cap, lol, wonder what they were thinking when they gave it a weapon rank higher than apoc. Actually clicked on another link on the wiki and saw the same value.

D cap obviously shouldn't matter since there's just not enough ways to raise your blu skill.
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
Offline
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
user: Nightfyre
Posts: 11681
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2009-10-30 01:00:28
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Ah, you mean "BLU Attack"? Aside from the tier bonus, I honestly have no idea. BLU spell damage formulas aren't exactly well understood. VZX's page of Studio Gobli information (the wiki page is a duplicate of his translation page) is about all we have, minus the incomplete Cannonball data.
 Odin.Blazza
Offline
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
user: Blazza
Posts: 6473
By Odin.Blazza 2009-10-30 01:03:33
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Odin.Kalico said:
Fenrir.Nightfyre said:
Odin.Blazza said:
I'm in the middle of a pretty busy exp party, so it'll take me a little while to read up on this, but someone just sent me a /tell in game that Kalico was arguing about blu in here.

So without reading any of the thread, I can confidently say, STFU Kalico, you have no *** clue what you're talking about.

HAHAHAHAHAHA

Owned.


Dam dude i had a little respect 4 u
b4 u said he owned me with that
little homo statement he posted
thats dude is corny
he just mad he cnnt be like me :)

Dude, if I wanted to be like you I'd throw away half my decent gear and go melee some demons in crimson hands and feet.
 Unicorn.Tarowyn
Offline
Server: Unicorn
Game: FFXI
user: Tarowyn
Posts: 737
By Unicorn.Tarowyn 2009-10-30 01:06:15
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Blu skill definitely has some effect on PDIF, just not sure exactly how much. Going home soon though so I'll probably google around to see if there's been any testing done after the weekend.
 Shiva.Darkshade
Offline
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1091
By Shiva.Darkshade 2009-10-30 01:08:48
Link | Quote | Reply
 
I am the worst DD
 Diabolos.Ghlin
Offline
Server: Diabolos
Game: FFXI
user: Ghlin
Posts: 461
By Diabolos.Ghlin 2009-10-30 01:22:06
Link | Quote | Reply
 
This thread is pretty much derailed, but I'm bored, so I'll give my 2 cents anyways. I just have something to say about RNG.

Ranged damage really shouldn't be superior to melee damage. I say this because RNGs have the ability to stand outside AOE. This makes it valuable against many enemies. A great example is the final boss of AUMs, Alexander. Our RNG easily stood far away from the many spells and abilities he used. Another advantage is against monsters with Ice Spikes. It may seem dumb, but hey, it's a 'situational' advantage for RNG that he doesn't have to worry about spikes. I'm sure there are other pros to not having to engage that I fail to mention now.

Just something to think about.

Thanks,

~G
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
Offline
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
user: Nightfyre
Posts: 11681
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2009-10-30 01:22:24
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Unicorn.Tarowyn said:
Blu skill definitely has some effect on PDIF, just not sure exactly how much. Going home soon though so I'll probably google around to see if there's been any testing done after the weekend.

I hope your Google-fu is stronger than mine, because I've done a fair bit of looking and never found anything beyond "somehow". Would be nice to finally know the truth... and if nobody finds anything I'm gonna start parsing Steelshells and try to sort this out -.-;
 Odin.Blazza
Offline
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
user: Blazza
Posts: 6473
By Odin.Blazza 2009-10-30 01:55:16
Link | Quote | Reply
 
As an actual response to Kalico's main point, blu is excellent at spike damage in certain situations.

In exp, with the use of MP drainkiss and magic hammer, a very good blu can keep up or surpass a decent [insert random DD here], but a very good [insert random DD here] will always surpass the best blu in the world.

In limbus/salvage/nyzul isle blu is an extremely good DD even ignoring the support and versatility side of the job.

Dynamis, is a bit hard for me to say because I've only just started doing it again, mod DEF and evasion is a little higher than your standard exp mob I'd say, so blu in general is going to start to fall behind a little here, but a well equipped blu should be able to keep up fairly well for the most part. The waiting in between pulls really helps in blus favour because it allows us to get some MP back and then burn a lot more than we normally would on each mob.

Sea/Sky farming, well who really cares, but blu should be able to do decently on pretty much anything aside from aerns, but for those I go /thf and tip the scales with CASA Vertical Cleave SC's.

Sea gods aside from JoL blu is really good because of the versatility more than anything else.
-Ix's; depending on how you fight them blu is situationally good, the way my LS does them my blu comes out pretty well
-Temp you have the ability to do decent numbers in slashing and piercing (blunt we stop damage and kite, but otherwise hysteric barrage, frenetic rip and cannonball are all excellent).
-Fort is good as you can go from tp burning the balls one second to doing decent magic damage on fort itself the next
-Faith just sucks monkey balls regardless of what you do, but ranged cannonballs and breath spells both work quite well, breath spells are troublesome though thanks to taking damage from aoe easily. (depends how you fight it too)
-Hope; with a good breath set-up I've been highest DD on hope several times as they go completely unresisted for max damage whereas nukes don't from what I've seen, although last time on this it required heavy cure spamming on me from our whm <_<
-Justice; blu is useless on, but can do decent crowd control on charmed people if your brd sucks
-Prudence; depending on how you do it, we let one depop and burn the other (tp and mp) so blu is decent for this, but any other job will probably out DD due to pretty sucky DEF but decent evasion.

sky gods Blu is a joke, aside from storing up tp prior to the fight and doing a solo SC for mages to MB and spamming diamondhide, blu isn't a great lot of good. Pretty ***damage on everything unless you're /thf, and doing decent damage once a minute doesn't mean much when gods die in about 15 minutes for a mediocre shell.

HNM I've never done, but would be much the same story as sky gods in many respects. SA cannonball or breath attacks would be decent for anything you're not meleeing, but both of these will be situationally non-viable or just plain ***.

Einherjar is the one point you brought up that I really wanted to comment on though. The def on mobs in here is well against blus favour, you say that blu can tank Einherjar, but wow, if you can hold hate in Einherjar on blu I don't know how the hell you'll ever win even a T1, because your real DD jobs are all doing something incredibly wrong. Blu can actually do quite well as crowd control, but blms and brds to it better. If you're blu in Einherjar I'd suggest going heavy on the support spells, full use of frightful roar and stinking gas on the biggest groups of slept mobs you can find, also sound blast if you're mage heavy. Skeletons and slimes/clots you'll be wanting to spam diamondhide as much as humanly possible (use AF body and full haste gear including turban, diamondhide caps at 200 damage so relic head is pointless with full merits). Slimes/clots you can also do some regurgitation spam for better damage/mp ratio than any of your physical spells will be doing, but probably better to save your mp for diamondhide, emergency cures and let the real DD take care of the killing. Imps are probably the one mob in all of einherjar that it's good to have a blu for, I'd reccommend having echo drops macro'd for this unless you have a really good supporter who's watching out for you (which you generally won't). Imps are the one time in all of Einherjar that you can expect to pull hate on blu.

</rant>
[+]
 Odin.Blazza
Offline
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
user: Blazza
Posts: 6473
By Odin.Blazza 2009-10-30 02:01:47
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Diabolos.Ghlin said:
Alexander


The strat I've used to win 4/5 times (5th time was seriously lacking in DD) was to use a pld tank standing at max range from Alexander. That way all the nasty AOE ***hits the pld alone while still allowing full use of melee DD.
 Asura.Slamm
Offline
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Slamm
Posts: 308
By Asura.Slamm 2009-10-30 16:27:50
Link | Quote | Reply
 
RNG owns on hnm

but merit pt is another story

sam do good ws dmg on hnm since gekko has a 2.0 mod on cratio but their tp dmg as with other dd will be much lower due to lvl difference along with mob defense.

rng will hit hnm slower but a lot harder
 Bismarck.Saleam
Offline
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
user: Saleam
Posts: 164
By Bismarck.Saleam 2009-10-30 23:39:24
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Garuda.Wooooodum said:
Fenrir.Nightfyre said:
Odin.Kalico said:

yeah do the math for me
af 1 dex 5 str 5 blu mag skll 15

morrigans dex 8 str 8 mnd 8 (stats might be a lil wrong too lazy to look up) o.o lol

but i'm always willing to learn
explain

5 STR 5 DEX 15 skill vs 8 STR

Final D value = floor(D fSTR WSC) * Multiplier

Ignore muliplier as it's constant. D is (Blue skill*0.11)*2 3

8/8 Blue Magic merits = 292 skill, 15 is 307. We're assuming a non-Keffiyeh headpiece, ie Gnadbhod's Helm, for simplicity. Floor at each step. fSTR is the usual (STR-VIT)/4 so we'll just say STR/4, which is not floored due to variability (we're accounting for probability due to AF 1 being 1 or 2 fSTR depending). Chain Affinity doubles WSC and the usual 0.83 value of alpha at 75 applies.

307*0.11=33*2=66 3=69 1.25 (10*0.83=8)=78.25
292*0.11=32*2=64 3=67 2 (16*0.83=13)=82

Morrigan's Robe wins by 3-4 base damage. Magus Jubbah 1 may be superior to Morrigan's Robe for CA Cannonball due to the additional 7 defense, but the formula for defense's exact impact on Cannonball damage is currently unknown.


*Head explodes*



Trying to convince this guy would be like trying to convince a very religious person that god does not exist, on the basis of proof.

http://slashninja.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/religous-logic.jpg
 Cerberus.Geldric
Offline
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
user: Geldricv2
Posts: 283
By Cerberus.Geldric 2009-10-31 09:29:04
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Quote:
Yeah cause blus can blow there mp that fast... and even if we did it would way way out do whatever your doing. Yeah a blu that has to rest... theres something wrong. Um last time I checked a sam can't SC by himself without jas. Oh yeah and on those HNMs you'd really rather not melee and feed tp to who can get to guess who can sata cannonball faster then a sam can get tp to ws? I missed it earlier but how you claiming 5k dmg? You 2hring and mediating and starting with 200% and using sekki?


Slow down there big guy.

A good sam can solo SC given the right amount of haste and a lucky DA during attack rounds with a good 5/6hit setup. Without the use of JAs. And I haven't found a HNM yet where I shouldn't melee. Besides the fact that I'm able to tank most of them if I pull hate. Sams don't TP feed as much as other jobs.

As for the 5k dmg, you need to read earlier into the thread where the OP was claiming he could 5k dmg with an SC where he stated 500+800 dmg spells closed with a mirrored darkness = 5k dmg. Bad math, probably?

Back to the first sentence. Give me a fully buffed blu. Songs, rolls, and the works. Pin them up against a fully buffed SAM. The SAM could go on forever until he dies, but the blu is limited to MP. When you blow all that MP what are you going to do?
 Ramuh.Sagittario
Offline
Server: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
user: Sagi
Posts: 16303
By Ramuh.Sagittario 2009-10-31 09:38:08
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Depends upon situation, but generally speaking SAMURAI is almost certainly the highest ranked DD.

I could only see a very good MNK or DRK being able to get close.
 Ramuh.Haseyo
Offline
Server: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
user: Haseyo
Posts: 22442
By Ramuh.Haseyo 2009-10-31 09:42:47
Link | Quote | Reply
 
I can't think of a situation where a Sam would be useless.
 Fairy.Vegetto
Offline
Server: Fairy
Game: FFXI
user: Vegetto
Posts: 3615
By Fairy.Vegetto 2009-10-31 09:45:14
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Jailer of fortitude!
 Odin.Blazza
Offline
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
user: Blazza
Posts: 6473
By Odin.Blazza 2009-10-31 10:21:03
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Geldric said:
Back to the first sentence. Give me a fully buffed blu. Songs, rolls, and the works. Pin them up against a fully buffed SAM. The SAM could go on forever until he dies, but the blu is limited to MP. When you blow all that MP what are you going to do?


Well if you're talking songs rolls and the works, for a fully buffed blu you'd be looking at a minimum of 9 refresh per tic, 10 in ToAU, 12 in assault/salvage. That's enough for a blu to power on endlessly. Skipping on half of that, if you're fighting something with MP then a good blu can power on endlessly anyway. In meripo a good blu will have a constant 6mp refresh (spell, auto, sanction, relic), and can MP Drainkiss and Magic Hammer to keep their MP up, birds of course is where blu will do best, piercing bonus, shitty DEF and evasion and monster correlation bonus for MP drainkiss are all in blus favour. Mamools and Trolls aren't so great as they have higher evasion (mamool) and defence (troll), and not all mobs have MP, meaning that you can't always spam MP Drainkiss and Magic Hammer the moment the timer is up.

However, the point of me saying this was not to say blu > sam, far from it. As you say, fully buffed pimped out blu vs a fully buffed pimped out sam, sam will win every time (Nyzul Isle is the one place where blu might give you a run for your money).

So aside from my ranting, my point in posting was simply to say that a good blu doesn't blow all their MP (unless it's a zerg).
 Ramuh.Haseyo
Offline
Server: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
user: Haseyo
Posts: 22442
By Ramuh.Haseyo 2009-10-31 10:28:27
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Fairy.Vegetto said:
Jailer of fortitude!


I never achieved sea access so I wouldn't know about those things. c.c
 Fairy.Berserkerjr
Offline
Server: Fairy
Game: FFXI
Posts: 35
By Fairy.Berserkerjr 2009-10-31 11:58:01
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Ramuh.Haseyo said:
I can't think of a situation where a Sam would be useless.


Can you think of a situation where a War would be useless?...

Vegetto. Would you say Mnk and/or Drk > War?. Just your opinion.
 Seraph.Helixx
Offline
Server: Seraph
Game: FFXI
user: Helixx
Posts: 103
By Seraph.Helixx 2009-10-31 12:01:17
Link | Quote | Reply
 
SAM WAR MNK
My top 3 DD's.

If people speak about versatile job it means you lowman things and can't get proper specialized jobs. BLM>BLU & PUP in nukes. SAM/WAR/MNK >>> BLU & PUP in DD.

If you speak about Spike damage its like comparing your **** size with an elephant. ITS NOT EVEN IMPORTANT (to the elepant). If you can toss out 20k and than "die/cant co on" while the other jobs happily slice up the NM you may have highest damage spike, but not overall highest damage. Ever seen a Faith MNK fully BRD/COR buffed and great geared do a Hundred fist? I doubt BLU PUP DRG BLM RDM RNG can even come close to that. Also not all DRK have K-Club, its not even rare, it does barely exist! Stop bringing it up.


Quote:
Back to the first sentence. Give me a fully buffed blu. Songs, rolls, and the works. Pin them up against a fully buffed SAM. The SAM could go on forever until he dies, but the blu is limited to MP. When you blow all that MP what are you going to do?

True strike. MP dependent jobs loose always. No MP and you are limited to measely single sword strikes.

Also can anyone reccomend me a good parser for windows vista? I want to parse against other jobs but i can't get any good parsers to work on vista. input (with links) much appreciated.
 Ramuh.Haseyo
Offline
Server: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
user: Haseyo
Posts: 22442
By Ramuh.Haseyo 2009-10-31 12:04:12
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Fairy.Berserkerjr said:
Ramuh.Haseyo said:
I can't think of a situation where a Sam would be useless.
Can you think of a situation where a War would be useless?...


Not where Sam would be even better.
 Fairy.Vegetto
Offline
Server: Fairy
Game: FFXI
user: Vegetto
Posts: 3615
By Fairy.Vegetto 2009-10-31 12:09:21
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Fairy.Berserkerjr said:
Ramuh.Haseyo said:
I can't think of a situation where a Sam would be useless.


Can you think of a situation where a War would be useless?...

Vegetto. Would you say Mnk and/or Drk > War?. Just your opinion.

Also jailer of fortitude lol. Phy dmg sucks on that, while I just go ahead and solo that thing on mnk kite/chi. lol 1/22 on my fortitude torque for my chakra build.

As for mnk war and drk. Mnk/nin > war/nin definitely every time. Mnk/war vs war/sam is another story. rly dependson how much haste is involved.. The more haste, the more leaned towards the war it will be. The only time though I can say that it wouldn't even be a competition is if dnc was added, full haste buffs, good haste gear + haste samba. Haste samba + hasso is a deadly combo and non hasso jobs just can't compete at that point.
As for drk, also situational.
 Fairy.Berserkerjr
Offline
Server: Fairy
Game: FFXI
Posts: 35
By Fairy.Berserkerjr 2009-10-31 12:16:01
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Fairy.Vegetto said:
Fairy.Berserkerjr said:
Ramuh.Haseyo said:
I can't think of a situation where a Sam would be useless.


Can you think of a situation where a War would be useless?...

Vegetto. Would you say Mnk and/or Drk > War?. Just your opinion.

Also jailer of fortitude lol. Phy dmg sucks on that, while I just go ahead and solo that thing on mnk kite/chi. lol 1/22 on my fortitude torque for my chakra build.

As for mnk war and drk. Mnk/nin > war/nin definitely every time. Mnk/war vs war/sam is another story. rly dependson how much haste is involved.. The more haste, the more leaned towards the war it will be. The only time though I can say that it wouldn't even be a competition is if dnc was added, full haste buffs, good haste gear haste samba. Haste samba hasso is a deadly combo and non hasso jobs just can't compete at that point.
As for drk, also situational.


Veg i'm sorry but you're favoring the jobs you have/like over others imo.

Wanna merit at Nyzul Mamools so you can show me Mnk/Nin > War/nin?.
 Fairy.Vegetto
Offline
Server: Fairy
Game: FFXI
user: Vegetto
Posts: 3615
By Fairy.Vegetto 2009-10-31 12:18:40
Link | Quote | Reply
 
I can log on now if you want.
 Fairy.Berserkerjr
Offline
Server: Fairy
Game: FFXI
Posts: 35
By Fairy.Berserkerjr 2009-10-31 12:21:19
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Fairy.Vegetto said:
I can log on now if you want.


Tonight after some events if you don't mind. I'm gonna go Trick or Treating in a few, with the family.
 Fairy.Vegetto
Offline
Server: Fairy
Game: FFXI
user: Vegetto
Posts: 3615
By Fairy.Vegetto 2009-10-31 12:22:11
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Where do you live lol? Its only 1:22pm here. I'm going trick or treating too, but not for another 4-5 hrs. Won't take that long to get a decent parse out, lol.
 Fairy.Berserkerjr
Offline
Server: Fairy
Game: FFXI
Posts: 35
By Fairy.Berserkerjr 2009-10-31 12:24:23
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Fairy.Vegetto said:
Where do you live lol? Its only 1:22pm here. I'm going trick or treating too, but not for another 4-5 hrs. Won't take that long to get a decent parse out, lol.


New York.

Just that I'm going to the mall with the little one and I want him to enjoy it and ACTUALLY get some Treats hehehe. Last time, I took him around 5-6pm and there were not as many kids anymore, and almost all the treats were gone so.
 Shiva.Darkshade
Offline
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1091
By Shiva.Darkshade 2009-11-01 01:33:14
Link | Quote | Reply
 
I am the best DD
 Shiva.Demiomega
Offline
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
user: Demiomega
Posts: 48
By Shiva.Demiomega 2009-11-01 01:10:55
Link | Quote | Reply
 
um... shade... no i am :p
First Page 2 3 ... 15 16 17 ... 25 26 27