The A.M.A.N. Trove BC

Here you go

https://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/52661/wts-bhima-geo-su5/#3365838


No I didn't stalk you, just read other thread like usual only to see DirectX randomly drop a comment that seems like a troll or vomit negativity. I made one comment about it then you got mad and resort to personal attack again.

If don't want others to "fight" you or whatever, then don't vomit negativity on forum then proceed to attack anyone who dare to comment on it. 3 people called you out in this thread about your AV comment, not just me. If that doesn't indicate issues in your posts.

So one may say they've become skilled at playing the game?

I don't think anyone is arguing that FFXI isn't on the lower end when it comes to skill. But seeing someone who doesn't know how to play or what to do compared to someone who does is night and day within the confines of this game. That's skill. Compared to most games, it's not some amazing, incomprehensible feat, but here, it's the difference between clearing content with ease and being stuck behind the curve, saying things like mimic is comparable to AV.

IT's not rhetoric, it's literal fact that you're incorrect on this point.

I don't disagree with your comparisons to other games, and it's possibly more correct to call it a competency than skill. However, I don't think you can deny that there exists a pretty large disparity in performance between many that play this game, regardless of gear. Call it what you will.

I would agree there's certainly a curve from a useless player to an amazing player, and something you can call skill. However, when compared to most other games, it's an extremely shallow curve. All you really have to do to be effective on most jobs is collect the gear everyone told you to and hit your ws macro every 6-8 seconds. If you give a 10 minute walkthrough and a great player's account and gearswap to someone who's never played before and isn't HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE, they will do fine.

If you throw someone who's never played overwatch, league, etc before into a high ranked ladder game they'll be 100% useless if not a negative.

The fact you can't tell the difference is itself pretty amazing.

Either that, or you're the one that doesn't understand the concept of rhetoric.

What you are referencing is reflex in a competitive gaming emvironment, not skill when we talk about it in ffxi.

FFXI is a mechanically complex game and requires certain level of "FFXI common sense" to perform well. These kind of common sense only came from reading forums, do hard endgame, play with and learn from other top end players and tons of experience in content.

I've seen many wow or ff14 players new to ff11 always ended up doing something wrong or play sub optimally in pt and it's not about their gears(decision making is not relevant to gears), nor reflex. (If they can raid in wow and 14, then their reflex shouldn't be too bad.) But it's about understanding how ffxi works at a bigger pov aka the lack of depth in ffxi knowledge.

Learning to do things correctly on reflex is a type of skill as well, just not one that FFXI (usually) requires,

Rhetoric lacks both sincerity AND meaningful content, and my sentence has the first, while implying that it doesn't need the latter for anyone that remotely understands the concept of skill.

Also, I'm not trying to pursuade you of anything; I'm telling you that you're an idiot for not understanding the concept of skill. Hint: literally everything in the world that requires input and can be improved upon on a case by case basis has some degree of skill involved.

In most cases, knowledge of advanced mechanics boils down to being told to do something different for one fight or not having to be told. In severe cases, such as using wrong WS on COR, you might lose 10-15% of your output to poor choice. You'd have to be completely clueless to keep spamming a WS that the monster directly resists, but in that case you might make it to 50%+. Keep in mind, most monsters won't care and you'll do fine just spamming your go-to.

In a game with a real skill curve, your output can shift by double or more based on just player ability.

I'm not saying I wouldn't rather have someone with the knowledge than someone who doesn't have it, but there are very very few scenarios where a basic player with the same gear can't do as well as a top notch player with a couple minutes of explanation. Only the content leader needs to be aware of intricacies to achieve top performance.

I think if you can say chess requires skill or you list skills like communication, decision making, or adaptability on your resume, you can say FFXI requires skill.

If you deal with pickups as often as I have, you'd understand that your entire viewpoint of the gap is completely flawed. There are absolute droves of players that are unable to understand how to play properly even when explained in detail.

For example, I had a Gin run earlier today where 6 out of the 8 players had minimal skill. Despite explaining that you need MDT for Zero Hour, and the times that Zero Hour is used, not a single one of them used any (despite assuring that they had them) (as well as many other errors), which made the sole off-party RDM healer's (me) job extremely difficult. If I hadn't been able to pick up the slack, it would have been a complete loss instead of a trivial win.

My basis is how the English language works. If you say "I don't have apples or peaches", it means that you have neither, not that you don't have both.

I don't have meaningful content there because I shouldn't need it. When you tell someone that the sun is going to rise tomorrow, you don't need to pull out actual evidence if they try to claim otherwise.

ALL of those things are different types of skill.

Knowledge of how the game works that is relevant to how you play? Skill.

Reflexes to quickly react to unexpected (or expected) situations? Skill.

Ability to interact smoothly with other people during content?
Skill.

The knowledge of what gearsets are best?
Skill.

Heck, even the ability to correctly follow instructions is a type of skill that many lack.

moving to other thread

I've seen cor lose at least 80% or even 200% dps just because they used wrong ws.

From using last stand in ilv 149 content in melee zerg and miss every single last stand due to the lack of prelude, to use leaden salute for 300 damage on an NM that doesn't take darkness damage.

Can they win the content with wrong ws choice? Sure. But that's mainly because the group already geared enough that 1 person perform suboptimal doesn't affect win rate. I wouldn't say it's equal to skill not making a difference. If the content is a lot harder like master trial, then all 6 people has to pull their weight.

There are several "do it wrong" examples that could happen which results tons of dps lose, such as not saving random deal on TS reset(every time when I see a cor waste RD in a ranged setup because they busted a chaos roll in a capped pdif pt I just want to yell noooo), and many others.

And that's just one aspect of one job, in a game with 22 jobs. Almost every job has their in and out, from timing of Battuta on rune to manawall on blm, to spell prioritization on healers, or DD jobs didn't use hate spells/JA to pull NM back to the frontline and bubble after hate reset etc.

If you just give a pro league, wow or ff14 player a max level character with max gears, then make a video record how they play in high lv content, I can promise you will find at least 1 "do it wrong" in their playstyle.

Hell, I always found multiple "do it wrong" in my own gameplay video and ls mates. I personally have hard time believing a brand new player in ffxi could play perfect if it's already difficult for ffxi vet.

Here's what my group knows so far:

Kathwack:
100%, 70%, 40%, ???%? I would guess 10%

Each Kathwack puts it into a new phase, with different mechanics, if you heal it past a phase change, the mechanics won't revert and it won't do a second Kathwack. It can be easily interrupted with Foe Lullaby, and doesn't need a whole lot of Magic Accuracy. My BRD has pretty good gear (4/5 BRD AF+3, not-AG Carn, no Stikini +1s).

Phase 1: 100-70%
Nothing special here, no absorb or DT mechanics. Something causes it to take increased damage but I'm not sure, I would suspect it would have to do with WSing without SCing? We observed a DT increase with spamming Raging Fists moreso than with making Light.

Phase 2: 70%-40%
Trends seem to INDICATE that it starts with absorbing Light, and taking Darkness damage. 9/10 attempts have started with it absorbing light before dark. Unlocks Pandora's Gift at this point.

Alternate SCing a dark-aligned or light-aligned SC to change the weakness. Any SC aligned with its current weakness appears to change the absorb to the other side of the elemental wheel. T1, T2 and T3 SC all changed weaknesses. If you're able to do a multi step SC with alternating elements then you can chain a few in a row without getting absorbed. I tested this by doing an SC that did Dist-Fus-Grav-Frag repeating and we did 8 steps before breaking SC, no absorbs. Conversely, accidentally starting on the same element that it absorbs will cause you to make it absorb every step, as it changes Darkness/Light weakness regardless of whether you hit the right SC or not.

Doing a Light skillchain will cause it to counter with Guilded Torpor, Doing a Darkness skillchain will cause it to counter with Death Trap. We typically did Light->followed by Darkness immediately and it'd queue up Guilded Torpor+Death Trap back to back.

It'll take damage from 1 magic burst before absorbing the next, but we haven't observed any good magic damage whatsoever so far, and our SCH has Ea +1 and all the works. MBing Aspir appears to do very well and the ability to Foe Lullaby for a half hour unresisted seems to indicate it has low magic evasion.

Phase 3: 40%-10%?

This is where things get kinda iffy. The DT goes down to about -85~90% and we haven't quite figured out how to remove the DT. It gains access to Pandora's Curse at this point, which is heavy Bio and all stats set to 1 (with no gear bonuses) for ~30 seconds? Not erasable/sacrifable.

It appears to element change before you can magic burst (not 100% verified atm) as all of our MB results have seemed to have healed it thusfar.

Things we've tried:

Multi-step SC: did the 8 step without any steps absorbing but nothing seemed to increase damage

Multi-step into Light/Dark: Same thing, we tried a 3 step Light/Dark with no success.

Magical WS: Nothing

Multiple Lights + Darks: Tried doing ..4? ..5? of each and no DT was removed

Things to try:
All 8 t1 SC and see if that's needed to unlock it

Do an SC with the element its alligned with (i.e. do Light when its absorbing Light) and then MB for damage since it will have changed to Darkness absorb by then.

Hope this helps people figure out a strategy

You have to SC 70%-40% if you want to do any reasonable damage. The SC itself does unusually high damage (60-99k), and the DT- is removed until it uses the response move (Death Trap or Gilded Torpor).

Edit: During 70-40, this means that if your SC heals it, it will do massive healing as well. Note that the SC damage stops being amplified immediately after the 40% mark, as does the massive healing (heals only ~3-5k).

Not SCing will cause a red proc and to always react with Death Trap. SC damage is also incredibly high.

Your first WS will remove the DT, then you get about 5 seconds before it death traps to close the SC. If you close the SC then it delays a bit longer and will either Torpor or Trap depending on if it was Light or Dark. You won't remove DT without WSing.

One thing I forgot to mention is that it sometimes starts casting Elemental Magic (including Comet/Absorb-Attri etc. for darkness). We suspect there might also be a mechanic involving the type of spell its casting to remove DT kind of like how you need to cast the opposing element to remove Golden Kist's Aura. We haven't had a chance to check yet though

You lost me there. Still great info thanks.