Is Idris Not Needed?
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Is Idris not needed?
We've been winning t4s (with smn burn still) and VD ambuscades without idris geos. It helps, but it isnt needed if everyone else is competent.
Times change. and while the "if you have a REM weapon" you were "likely" to be good was a true statement pre-rhapsodies. It is no longer an accurate statement.
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Asura.Eiryl said: » Times change. and while the "if you have a REM weapon" you were "likely" to be good was a true statement pre-rhapsodies. It is no longer an accurate statement. I flat-out think this is nonsense but I don't think arguing is going to resolve this impasse peace Look, I exclusively do shout-ambuscade. Every single ambuscade I've ever done is with randoms. and I do a *** LOT of ambuscade. all 16 Aeonics were built, in shout.
It is my HOBBY to watch shout groups *** fail. I will literally go WATCH your shout group wipe to ***if I can. You are free to disagree, but I may be the actual most qualified person in the world to make this distinction. I seriously doubt anyone has more experience with random players. To answer the OP with my thoughts: Idris, relics or other rema arent really needed until you face the last challenges of the game and even then, if your group is very competenet but somehow lacks ghorns or idrises, you can still do most of it probably.
Now what logic dictates for these games: if you just came back and need money, its ok to do XX events undergeared but overtime, its good to invest in some of these HQ gears unless you wanna be a liability forever, i dont expect someone without the will of having hq gears to even have the basic of stuff either, aka af3 whm pants and stuff like that.
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Asura.Eiryl said: » Common mistake thinking that someone with a REMA is more likely to be better than someone with out. Asura.Eiryl said: » I promise you there are more shitty players with Aeonics, than good players. ThanksNirvana Asura.Eiryl said: » A solid 90% of mythic users are -straight- garbage. So it would not be out of the relm of possibilities that this comment is pulled straight out of your @22. of the '90%' of trash, they are not trash because they have mythic, they could be trash because they are bad players, (non effective sets most likely) that means the other 15 slots are the problem or how they use it. Asura.Eiryl said: » Relic wielders (used) to be a sign of a good player, up till rhapsodies. This is the same sentiment as '90% of mythic users are - straight- garbage'. There were plenty of people that had relics before rhapsodies that were trash, in fact it became a problem during abyssea and I would go as far to say that even at 75 there were relic players that were complete trash (same problem, bad gear, or bad understanding of the job) But the relic was not the problem, the player was. Asura.Eiryl said: » Having a glow empyrean is basically your only "most likely" good player. So having a mythic does not show skill but turning in items droped from solo able content does? This also could be farmed before rhapsodies and really only showed what a player spent their gil on. Asura.Eiryl said: » idris and epeo just mean they had the drive to accomplish the most menial task in the game. As does having anything in the game. Since people can be carried most gear can't be used to judge the player. It only shows what they did, and even if they have something you consider notable it only means they spammed the content or got lucky.
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This is a silly thread.
It's not needed but helps. That's your answer. Ex1: does equipping any gear at all help? Yes Ex2: does equipping ilv 119 help more than lv 1 gear? Yes Ex3: does equipping a idris help more than a Dunna? Yes Etc etc etc Helps but is surely not needed, it will make a possible lose fight into a win fight slightly easier, but do a bit of logic before asking dumb question you most likely already know the answer for. Will wearing clothes help me from being arrested? Yes
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kishr said: » This is a silly thread. It's not needed but helps. That's your answer. Ex1: does equipping any gear at all help? Yes Ex2: does equipping ilv 119 help more than lv 1 gear? Yes Ex3: does equipping a idris help more than a Dunna? Yes Etc etc etc Helps but is surely not needed, it will make a possible lose fight into a win fight slightly easier, but do a bit of logic before asking dumb question you most likely already know the answer for. Will wearing clothes help me from being arrested? Yes kishr said: » Ex3: does equipping a idris help more than a Dunna? Yes but anyway. I have lots of shiny... I used to do pickups on Cerberus all the time, but we all knew each other, and even if there was a fail it was fun.
I absolutely ignore RMEA shouts on Asura. The people who make them have no clue what they are doing, and are creating a terrible environment before the party even starts. Idris is a massive upgrade, especially with how Frailty and Malaise work.
900 Skill Dunna Frailty = -28.3 -10 from Dia II = -38.3, 100/(100-38.3) = 1.6207, 62.07% attack increase. W/ Idris Frailty = -41.8 -10 from Dia II = -51.8, 100/(100-51.8) = 2.074, 107% attack increase or 72% stronger then Dunna. These differences are exaggerated with BoG + Ecliptic because defense down has the same scaling as Haste. Malaise is even more noticeable. For the rest of the bubbles the difference isn't too big but for those two offensive ones it's massive. As for the events, Idris is only really super amazing at CL140~145 and above, below that Dunna does just fine because your not needing the crazy offensive power that Idris provides. Asura.Alfylicious said: » To be fair though, V1VD is not geared towards new or returning players. People are drastically exaggerating VD kill speed difference with an Idris anyways. My fastest VD run this month done without Idris was 6 min 8 sec including 2 min buffs (and the geo didn't even have proper lua), the jp video posted was 5 min 48 sec including buff time. So 20 sec slower than industry standard without idris, it's actually not very noticeable. Geo is a job that's least likely to *** up and most friendly towards avg player. If you PUG, and needs 1 or 2 random to fill up spot, it makes the most sense to give away the geo slot. Asura.Saevel said: » As for the events, Idris is only really super amazing at CL140~145 and above, below that Dunna does just fine because your not needing the crazy offensive power that Idris provides. This.....purely cor perspective, Brd actually makes bigger difference than idris because it's not THAT hard to get high pdif via dia4, CC chaos, armor or full break etc. On the otherhand I absolutely can't live without HM+double madrigal in VD on cor. The dps difference between tp in low acc set or high acc set is huge. This month VD is pretty easy compared to last months, i wouldnt take non idris to vd.
that seems a bit oversimplified, considering idris frailty + idris precision + entrust fury is more ratio and 50 more accuracy as compared to dunna fury/frailty+entrust precision if you can't swing a brd
i'm not going to say idris is necessary and the better the group the less they'll miss it, but it's silly to pretend it isn't a gigantic difference geigei said: » This month VD is pretty easy compared to last months, i wouldnt take non idris to vd. Ive used idris for this month. There's absolutely 0 noticeable difference in terms of kill speed between idris and none idris because too many things determines kill speed, and pdif makes smaller difference. I noticed slight difference in ws avg with idris although it's not huge, but what really determines kill speed is support job playing skills this month. Mage silence or dispel fast enough = fast runs and vice versa. Also sch using enmity spells makes noticeable difference on adds. By comparison some extra pdif makes much smaller difference. Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: » that seems a bit oversimplified, considering idris frailty + idris precision + entrust fury is more ratio and 50 more accuracy as compared to dunna fury/frailty+entrust precision if you can't swing a brd i'm not going to say idris is necessary and the better the group the less they'll miss it, but it's silly to pretend it isn't a gigantic difference I only speak for actual record of kill speed, not how much pdif difference they make on paper. I can even post all clear speed from both idris and none idris then calculate the avg if I want to. I rarely use precision from geo, personally. As stated before brd is just too good so there's no way I'm doing VD without one. And defensive bubbles from geo often outweight the benefit of precision. I'd rather entrust wilt or fade. Quote: https://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/52227/is-idris-not-needed/3/#reply Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: » i'm not going to say idris is necessary and the better the group the less they'll miss it, but it's silly to pretend it isn't a gigantic difference It's good. Yup. Required. Nope. /end To sum up for verbannt; The pool of players has gotten significantly smaller. Of the current pool, probably more than half have a shiney of some kind. (if they've been playing at least a couple months and not counting mules) More than half of all players are bad players. Therefor, the odds of a player with shiney being bad, is greater than the odds of non-shiney being bad. The ones without shiney are /usually/ not trying to get into shouts (yet) ((because they lack shiney or are joining to try and build shiney)) If there's 100 people, 60 shiney 40 non-shiney. 59 bad shiney 39 bad non-shiney. If you take one at random, 'bad shiney' is the most likely joiner. This is the complicated way of saying, they're all *** bad, it doesn't matter what they wear. Asura.Eiryl said: » Quote: https://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/52227/is-idris-not-needed/3/#reply Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: » i'm not going to say idris is necessary and the better the group the less they'll miss it, but it's silly to pretend it isn't a gigantic difference It's good. Yup. Required. Nope. /end To sum up for verbannt; The pool of players has gotten significantly smaller. Of the current pool, probably more than half have a shiney of some kind. (if they've been playing at least a couple months and not counting mules) More than half of all players are bad players. Therefor, the odds of a player with shiney being bad, is greater than the odds of non-shiney being bad. The ones without shiney are /usually/ not trying to get into shouts (yet) ((because they lack shiney or are joining to try and build shiney)) If there's 100 people, 60 shiney 40 non-shiney. 59 bad shiney 39 bad non-shiney. If you take one at random, 'bad shiney' is the most likely joiner. This is the complicated way of saying, they're all *** bad, it doesn't matter what they wear. I'd say it is something for any geo to looking forward to, "not needed" but super cheap right now compared to what it used to be, only problem being the adoulin coalitions but that's it really, by the time you can make an idris from scratch, anyone should be average/good on the job already and have it decently geared imo. And i still dont believe there are that many bad players in asura, you just said 98/100 people with/without idris are bad lol. Sometimes "bad" just means "obnoxious, judgmental, pain in the *** whose personality is just too much work to be around."
It has other meanings as well, at least for me in the context of dealing with randoms. people discussing whether the ultimate weapon for the job is necessary is foolish. Outside of a few situations, why aren't you looking to maximize your jobs?
Those situations: -this is your second/third/whatever character, and you put the bulk of your finances into your main. -you play once a week. An idris these days can't be more than 30% of what it cost a year ago on most servers with the bottom falling out of H-P Bayld. What are you throwing gil at as a GEO main? There's no need for HQ abjurations for the job for group play- its rare you're gonna be nuking and need HQ amalric, and honestly, augmented Merlinic probably would suit the job better because of higher thresholds of macc. If a bard can build 3-4 RMEAs to be at the top of their game, if a PLD can build 2 (those situations where multiple RMEAs are used at once), if a RNG can build 4-6 RMEAs just to compete with standard melees....are you really complaining about 1 Ergon that doesn't even need to be afterglowed?
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Leviathan.Celebrindal said: » people discussing whether the ultimate weapon for the job is necessary is foolish. Outside of a few situations, why aren't you looking to maximize your jobs? Those situations: -this is your second/third/whatever character, and you put the bulk of your finances into your main. -you play once a week. An idris these days can't be more than 30% of what it cost a year ago on most servers with the bottom falling out of H-P Bayld. What are you throwing gil at as a GEO main? There's no need for HQ abjurations for the job for group play- its rare you're gonna be nuking and need HQ amalric, and honestly, augmented Merlinic probably would suit the job better because of higher thresholds of macc. If a bard can build 3-4 RMEAs to be at the top of their game, if a PLD can build 2 (those situations where multiple RMEAs are used at once), if a RNG can build 4-6 RMEAs just to compete with standard melees....are you really complaining about 1 Ergon that doesn't even need to be afterglowed?  Ragnarok.Phuoc said: » And i still dont believe there are that many bad players in asura, you just said 98/100 people with/without idris are bad lol. Bro. Play on Asura. 99/100 are bad. I was being generous. Celebrindal kinda gets it. But if "random player" starts today, he's not allowed to play GEO for a minimum of 6 months? yeah, it's quite possibly the easiest REMA to get. And the most impactful. it also takes the longest to get. Asura.Eiryl said: » Ragnarok.Phuoc said: » And i still dont believe there are that many bad players in asura, you just said 98/100 people with/without idris are bad lol. Bro. Play on Asura. 99/100 are bad. I was being generous. Celebrindal kinda gets it. But if "random player" starts today, he's not allowed to play GEO for a minimum of 6 months? yeah, it's quite possibly the easiest REMA to get. And the most impactful. it also takes the longest to get. Oh I totally agree, you can't say to someone "you can't play XXX job without XXX gear/weapon"- that's just ridiculous. But I do believe that any GEO MAIN should be working towards an Idris in the same way that a BRD MAIN should be working towards Duar+Ghorn. And honestly, learn the job as you're working on those high-end shinies, so you're even better once you get them. Leviathan.Celebrindal said: » Asura.Eiryl said: » Ragnarok.Phuoc said: » And i still dont believe there are that many bad players in asura, you just said 98/100 people with/without idris are bad lol. Bro. Play on Asura. 99/100 are bad. I was being generous. Celebrindal kinda gets it. But if "random player" starts today, he's not allowed to play GEO for a minimum of 6 months? yeah, it's quite possibly the easiest REMA to get. And the most impactful. it also takes the longest to get. Oh I totally agree, you can't say to someone "you can't play XXX job without XXX gear/weapon"- that's just ridiculous. But I do believe that any GEO MAIN should be working towards an Idris in the same way that a BRD MAIN should be working towards Duar+Ghorn. And honestly, learn the job as you're working on those high-end shinies, so you're even better once you get them.
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The problem with "geo main" is that you've got to be allowed to start somewhere. how can you know if you want to be a geo if you're never allowed to join content with it.
I almost wish they wouldn't even allow you to enter ambuscade with rema items. for anything under VD. Just something to balance it out. ***is getting ridiculous. Game has never been "kind" to new players, but this is too much.
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I didn't read through all this because I didn't see it going on this long, but I feel like we are all just looking for reassurance before we make the jump to such a big decision. We all know they are better in a way, but I really feel it's more of "will it make me 'feel good'" about the decision rather than will my parse be 5-10% better. (Random guess on percentages, don't hurt me!)
The rest of us are just playing. I use to ask the same things, now I'm in the process of just making what I feel like I want. Doesn't really matter in the end. Lakshmi.Elidyr said: » I didn't read through all this because I didn't see it going on this long, but I feel like we are all just looking for reassurance before we make the jump to such a big decision. We all know they are better in a way, but I really feel it's more of "will it make me 'feel good'" about the decision rather than will my parse be 5-10% better. (Random guess on percentages, don't hurt me!) The rest of us are just playing. I use to ask the same things, now I'm in the process of just making what I feel like I want. Doesn't really matter in the end. I'm with you. You don't need paragraphs and 10,000 posts to figure out want vs. need.
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