String Theory: A Puppetmaster's Guide *NEW*

Not sure where you're getting those WS descriptions from because neither the wiki nor the game use those. They were all updated a long time ago to properly reflect the amount of standard hits in a WS before multiattack procs, including Tornado Kick.

From HERE!

Fair, but the individual WS pages have the correct info listed. Looks like nobody ever bothered to fix up the overview page descriptions.

All right, here are some results from more controlled testing. All tests were done on 133 Apex Toads with Kupipi, Grape daifuku, /DRG, no Fotia and at 3k TP without any Attack buffs unless specified. This was to avoid PDL affecting anything and also to make sure that the WSs share the same Attack modifier as I increased Attack.

All screenshots are roughly average numbers I picked out after WSing like 5 times under identical conditions.

So Kick attack damage has no effect on DB. There's also no hidden Skillchain Bonus on the weapon. Closed Darkness skillchains did the expected amount compared to other WSs. Having the Automaton out and Maneuvers active does not affect damage, either.

Honestly, not sure what to make of the numbers. The WSD test implies that DB has lower fTP on the first hit than HF, but the low buff DA proc actually adds enough damage to suspect it has fTP transfer after all.

Then at full buffs, I WS'd like 20 times and the damage seemed extremely consistent without any apparent DA procs. Statistically, it would not be impossible for me to never see a single DA with this sample size and 36% DA, but incredibly unlikely. Perhaps having a certain amount of buffs or Attack causes the bug and prevents DB from proccing multiattacks altogether?

DB is also consistently stronger than no DA proc HF under full buffs, which would normally imply it has really solid stats, but no Attack modifier. However, the no/low buff tests would have put HF at a noticeable advantage, but they didn't.

I'm honestly completely lost. Any input highly welcome.

Grats on getting rank 1 and thank you from the PUP community for your sacrifice of choosing Dragon Fangs. You passed up a lot to get those for our benefit an that sacrifice is not lost on us.

If the question is "does fTP transfer?" then a few triple attacks should show that pretty quickly.

Sad to hear about the no kick attack damage.

I saw damage fluctuations that looked like multiattack procs in my first tests using TA/QA gear. However, I also WS'd below 3k with more variables, so that wasn't conclusive.

I'll definitely go for another round of tests at some point to double-check. But right now it just seems like Dragon Blow is a buggy mess.

would be better to find the fTP and mods before you worry about attack bonuses.

In general I think direct eyeballed comparision to Howling is kinda useless. Just focus on getting fTP, WSC of DB itself and you will know exactly how good or bad it is against Howling.

Well, as I asked before: what's the exact process of figuring out fTP for WSs (presumably by one-shotting lvl 0 mobs with controlled variables)? Attribute mods are easy enough to figure out, but fTP seems a lot less straightforward.

you go ws level 1 mobs without fotia, keep tp the same if possible. get your high and low, should be ~5% between the highest and lowest value in this case. put on a fotia piece and from there we can find the http://fTP. i like to go naked, then use items like accessories that only raise one stat at a time.

All right. My mule was never meant to be a melee PUP, so I never bothered farming up gorgets or belts for it, but I guess I'll have to go and grab matching ones at least. I presume Etudes are good enough instead of using single attribute accessories?

I'll report back when I find the time for it all.

Probably easier to just use dual boxed WHM with Boost spells, assuming you have one.

Maybe noob question but I'm desperate for inventory space/prioritization and have to make a call on this: if you could only have 1 maybe 2 ws focused capes, what would you choose? I had made a howling fist one since I don't have kenkonken, my verethragna is stuck at HMP and I pretty much full time godhands when on pup and not caring for pet dmg (for example ngai). I'm not sure it's the right call also cause I tried to make it str to reuse for raging fists but I barely ever use that.

I imagine if I had to push for 2 capes would do howling and smite/stringing. Not sure if shijin should be a priority it does really weirdly mediocre dmg for me compared to anything else (howling being the highest dmg I do, with more variance obviously) EDIT: DERP shijin can reuse tp can't it? that would solve that...

Thoughts? I know I should have ALL THE CAPES but I'm at more than 40 and space is starting to become an issue for jobs I would love to play more but cannot due to how my group/ls is...

Str/acc/atk da and str/acc/atk/crit should be all you need. Dex/acc/atk/da can be your master tp+shijin cape

I would just go str/da period. tp and all ws.

Don't even need 2. Only going to lose 1% on Shijin and maybe 1% I'm not sure on pummel.

Yeah, if you absolutely want to go with as few capes as possible, then just STR/Acc/Atk/DA will suffice. All relevant gear these days is loaded with Acc and HTH also doesn't have to worry about non-ilevel offhands like other jobs. The loss of TP Acc via DEX is largely negligible except in niche cases.

All right. It was super tedious and took quite some time, but I tried to get as many data points as I could stomach so someone can hopefully figure out the fTP and mods. Please let me know if additional tests are required.

But these tests definitely confirm that DB is a WS with high fTP on the first hit and no fTP transfer. It's possibly that this unique factor for a HTH made it look like it had HF's Attack modifier at first, but that I was mistaken. That's the only way I can explain HF outperforming DB despite adding 60% WSD that would normally put DB at an advantage.

Tests were done at PUP ML6 with 446 HTH skill and no gear except Dragon Fangs and Shneddick Ring for movement speed.

Looks like it is 100% DEX mod. You only got a small difference from boost STR since you don't have capped fSTR with 98 STR.

fTP looks like roughly:
~4000 / 1024 @ 1053 TP, ~3820 / 1024 @ 1k
~7285 / 1024 @ 2025 TP, ~7195 / 1024 @ 2K
~10850 / 1024 @ 3000 TP

Thanks for the help! Is there any point in redoing the tests with Boost-STR?

And just to double-check, that means the fTP anchors are roughly:

3.82 @ 1k
7.195 @ 2k
10.85 @ 3k

I'll add that info to the wiki then and credit you too. Still seems like DB is very underpowered in its current form and is likely missing fTP transfer due to a bug developer oversight.

~ 3.75
~ 7
~10.6

fTP values are always x / 1024

no, your values with boost-STR were only higher because without it, you didn't cap fSTR.

All right, thanks. I've updated the values on the BGwiki page and credited you.

I guess I'll submit a bug report on the OFs next to potentially fix the fTP transfer. Although, if they confirm it's an actual issue and adjust it, then Dragon Blow would be the most powerful WS for MNK and PUP by a very significant margin, so it'd have to be rebalanced with the HTH rework in mind. But in its current form it's just a novelty for Darkness skillchains, at best.

Definitely not. There is no way missing ftp transfer with that fTP and WSC is unintentional. It would be completely broken otherwise.

Just to make it more clear. On monk it would be at avg 82.5k WS damage and 15.7k DPS with standard DD buffs (capped att/acc) without Impetus or Footwork, which is super far ahead of even R15 Veret under Impetus. Holding TP to around 1500 would result in 105k avg WS damage (which of doesn't work like that, because Sheet takes avg from spikes above 100k too, but still).

Current numbers looks like boosted Howling FROM BEFORE h2h update
Back then Howling was 50%VIT/20%STR and 2.5 4.875 8.0

They would need to significantly lower fTP to add fTP transfer.

EDIT: Thats without 50% ODD on kicks.

Yeah, I don't expect them to leave the fTP values untouched. But if they retune it altogether while taking fTP transfer into account to make it at least on par with HF or slightly stronger that would be nice.

Maybe it's just supposed to be Final Heaven 2.0, but they knowingly compared it to Howling Fist in Freshly Picked 53, so it's just weird for it to be so vastly different. Perhaps the WS was conceived before the HTH update and they just never realized their mistake by the time they implemented it.

They made it better than old howling but forgot it in the overhaul cause no one ever even thought of getting them

Which also means there is zero chance they'll take the 15 seconds to give it the overhauled values

Preupdate Howling was 2.5/5/8
Dragonblow is 4/8/10

It Should be 4/6/8 and replicates ftp
To match overhauled howling 2/3.5/6

It's just like Fast Blade II. FTP raised by 2~ across the board
FB 1/1.5/2
FBII 2/3.5/5

My real claim to fame is making bad life choices.

i'd have taken the h2h for collection reasons if i won, assuming katana wasn't a thing since that actually has a useful effect

The majority of players would probably pick Yagyu because its utility is significantly better than anything else. Most of the other Bonanza weapons are just silly novelties by comparison or they were made redundant by newer gear.

Don't get me wrong, if I had gotten rank 1 on Aerix I still would have picked the Dragon Fangs because PUP4lyfe and I wanted to know what Dragon Blow's deal was. It's also a unique lockstyle. My mule, on the other hand, is primarily a BRD and just a makeshift PUP at best that was never meant to melee in the first place (and probably almost never will).

As far as I'm concerned, Dragon Fangs are sadly wasted on that char even if DB is never adjusted and there are a number of other rank 1s that would have served that char better, but curiosity got the better of me. At least it's one more mystery solved.

Tbf I'm not sure what I would've taken if I ever won a Rank1 on my main. I guess the shield?
Or maybe Yagyu, I dunno. It's a very interesting but ultimately overestimated weapon imho.

On a mule I'm not sure. I only have one mule with no levelled jobs/gear so I would've definitely gone for something that can be muled, I guess.

I think the only Rank 1 that can be muled is the Judgment Day painting furniture. Picking that is almost a flex.

Yeah forgot the "new" bonanza barely has nothing muleable on R1 =/