String Theory: A Puppetmaster's Guide *NEW*

I have a question about Howling Fist. Why isnt Nyame path B better than mpaca or herculean ? Wsd add nothing to this ws ?

WSD vs Multi attack relation is exactly the same for every monk WS that has fTP replication on all hits. Howling Fists being less hits might make you think WSD is more effective and it is, but the same is true for multi-attack, which also is more potent, because adding 2 attacks to 2 attacks is 100% increased damage, while adding 2 attack to 5 attacks is only 40% increased damage.

Adding 2 attacks once every 33 ws

32/33 see no benefit, but 10% works on all 33

Most h2h WS now have Replicating fTP which means multi attack proc on WS means more WS dmg with more hits, if you get a triple attack proc on Howling fists it will do more dmg than stacking only wsdmg.

Example: stacking wsdmg and you do 10000dmg.

Stacking triple attack WS does 7000 but triple proc on WS makes that hit 7000 x 4 so 28000. This was wrong in some aspects

Simplyfied, my explanation isn't entirely correct most likely either .

Im gonna ignore that, because like always you throw over some general problem trying to be smart, like this one about whats more useful, gearing towards avg damage or gearing towards higher median. Discussion about it without very specific case has totally 0 sense. If you have specific case and can provide numbers then Im listening.

Going back to Yiazmat question and answering it more precisely.

I assume we are talking about hands, body and feet, because head and legs are really not even close, because legs has 5% PDL and head 200TP bonus on top of other good stats.

First hands and feet. So in those slots Mpaca and Nyame are very close. Herculean is more ahead of them, because those herculean pieces has base 2%TA before possible 4%TA augment. That being said 4%TA with 10STR or VIT is not easy to get augment, especially with att and acc, so both Mpaca and Nyame are an option. Also Tatenashi and ahdemar HQ B are both slightly stronger than Mpaca and Nyame for hands, but both are glass cannon and probably not worth the marginal damage upgrade. Better option is actually Malignance, which is also marginally ahead thx to just pure STR/VIT and PDL (and PDL is easier to work with on PUP with Howling fist, because of native attack bonus on that WS).

Now about body. The best is actually Tatenashi, then slightly behind is Mpaca>Nyame>Adhemar.

Difference between herc feet and hands and Tatenashi body and nyame feet, malignance hands and Nyame body is 5% avg damage, so if you want to be much safer during WS it's perfectly fine to WS in that. I can't tell exact difference on pup, but its gonna be very similar to difference on MNK, except you have no Tatenashi body, so its either Mpaca or Nyame for body, Nyame being marginally worse (around 0.7%). Mpaca or Nyame hands/feet are almost the same and Herculean with 4%TA/10STR are like 3.5-4% ahead

Howling Fist is 2 hits, so a triple attack proc (with no WSDMG) would bring it from 7000 to 14000, not 28000.

(more than 4 paragraphs, by the way)

Also obligated to; *push up glasses* and say pup not mnk, so no tatenashi and no adhemar

But you didn't notice that because you saw something to argue with and dove on it without looking. "oh sorry" or "lol"

I didn't say argue with me, but you never miss AN argument, always compelled to interject. It's impressive really, as soon as you see any statement even remotely related to anything that could be considered deeps related, you know exactly what's going to happen. and then it goes 3 or 4 pages of the same ***. Then pops up in another thread.

ups I forgot we are on PUP not MNK. Ignore part about Tatenashi and Adhemar lol


I havent argue with you at all. Indeed I did the opposite, I refused to discuss with you unless you provide facts, not general smartass comment. I guess you havent understood tho.

I missed its PUP not MNK, because im busy in RL.

EDIT:

I edited my post for PUP info

Eh? I thought both hits could proc. Wouldn't that make it a 4-hit or 6-hit?

Nyame also got DA in addition to wsd, this couldnt make it more consistent on low buff situations ?
Can still mix ta in accessories and even add two mpaca (head and something else)

I was calculating it with whole set, not just one piece in vacuum. Like I said Mpaca head and legs are way ahead because of PDL on legs and tp bonus on head. hands/feet are pretty much whatever Nyame or Mpaca if you dont want Herculean. Body is also almost whatever between Mpaca and Nyame.

Let's be honest here, how often are most PUPs gonna have adequate buffs to cap attack and take advantage of PDL on anything that matters? YMMV I guess, but consider me a skeptic.

That being said, Mpaca was a pretty nice addition for PUP precisely because of the lack of other good non-Herculean multihit pieces that other jobs got. Adhemar, Kendatsuba (which for MNK NIN SAM is fairly similar to Ken+1, but PUP had no such analogue), Tatenashi, etc.

I reckon if you are fighting anything that matters you'd usually do it with a party that would provide you buffs. Even Trusts (Sylvie, Qultada etc.) can offer a decent amount for most content. But yes, it largely depends on what you're doing (Trust soloing Omen bosses will generally leave you far from cap) and on the people with whom you do content.

In any case, the guide is just there as a general recommendation to give people an idea, not absolute law. Mpaca, Tali'ah and Nyame B are all very close on the spreadsheet, so if you tend to run in low buff situations you may want to adapt your sets. Same as you normally would with different Accuracy tiers. I suppose I could add some low Attack sets to the node, but these days that'd mostly just be Mpaca for almost every WS, anyway (which most of them already use for most slots). Especially if you're having a hard time with Herc augments.

On that note, Tali'ah/Mpaca vs. Nyame B: the latter is definitely more consistent damage (usually +1k-2k if you have zero other sources of WSD). But when your HFs have a tendency to randomly spike up to 50-80k with buffs you absolutely want to capitalize on that and try to force it to occur as often as possible. The gear doesn't exist in a vacuum after all--you stack specific stats for specific results. Since TA can double proc on the WS that 4-6% can be quite significant, even taking diminishing returns into account.

PS: Tatenashi/Adhemar aren't that much better than Mpaca, if at all. Tatenashi has a couple more attribute points here and there, more Acc and basically the same TA, but nowhere close to as much Attack as Mpaca. Point being, PUP and MNK are very close in terms of WS gear these days.

Finally got around to updating the gear sets node again. Sorry for the long delay.

• Included Nyame as part of separate sets in the relevant categories since not everyone will have the same augments (exception being defensive sets). Please let me know if I missed anything.

• Updated all the Valoredge sets with Kenkonken due to the recent Xiucoatl C findings. Retained Taeon in several sets mainly due to the DT-%.

• Tweaked the Shijin Spiral set because, realistically, most people won't augment several DEX Herc pieces specifically for this one WS and Malignance has very high DEX to make it perform similarly. Additionally, it should outperform Herc noticeably when you have good enough buffs to make use of the PDL. Kept Herc Boots because it comes with decent base Acc/Atk/TA before augments, but you could use Malignance or Mpaca instead to avoid having to deal with Oseem.
  

• I have yet to conclusively test whether Nyame D behaves like WSD, but I'll update the Valoredge sets to include it if the DMG+5% applies to all Bone Crusher hits.

• Will add Crepuscular Earring to relevant sets once it's in the FFXIAH database. Please let me know once this happens. I was hoping this would already be the case when I started updating the node, but evidently not.

Thanks Aerix! nice work
I appreciate the thur / non thur options

Any return of any 20 ML pup ?

I'm at ML13, so not quite there yet.

Has anyone done any testing with interactions between Magniplug 1/2, truesights, and Neo Animator? I'm wondering if the base damage increase gains multipliers worthy of using this for dd auto or just save it for my tank.

Does the automaton skill boost with mlvl increase the effectiveness of Nyame path D dmg+5% /copium. Will try neo animator once mlvl 20.

+30 ranged skill added about 475 dmg to armor shatterer against apex bats.

If we are still getting +10 combat per ML, its probably still bugged, so prepare for /sadpanda. Also if you haven't found new WSs or spells at ML 13, then probably there wont be any in ML99 after they fix +10combat to +1combat, since with ML13 you are now further, than you will be with fixed ML99.

Ofc there is small chance +10 skill is not bugged, but let's be realistic..

Just eyeballing my puppet's WS numbers, even with +10 combat skill per master level at ML13 the puppet's dmg output has really only shown a minimal increase.

My thinking is that the +10 automaton skills per master level was intended for PUP only to help the job put out some better numbers in the damage output department and catch them up with the other dd jobs. But SE also gave +10 to BST and DRG by mistake, which has since been fixed.

But really though, if SE did patch it for PUP too, then I'd probably put FFXI back on the shelf again until next year IF (and that's a big IF) FFXI gets a new expansion.

BST and SMN are in exactly same spot with their pets tho. Except for SMN avatar is most of the damage, so it would need such a buff even more for future events. I'm a pessimist here, it will be fixed imo

Pretty sure SE just messed up with the hotfix and they're definitely going to nerf the combat skills soon:

Sadly, even with the skill + each level. It doesn't increase damage much at all.

Wish they would fix auto ws woes, considering it's the only pet job that needs to get TP, and you still cannot swap into gear to boosts the damage significantly without a specific lua. Even then, there isn't much gear to be had that boosts damage enough.

This is pretty much in line with the data from testing Empy legs +1. The biggest boosts to damage still come from +% and from base attributes.

The main appeal of all the skill is really mainly the Acc/Atk/Racc/Ratk to be able to compete with buffed players in higher content. WSs definitely need a boost, but I'd much rather have new ones altogether as we haven't seen any new WSs or notable JAs since WotG.

My gripe is the job doesn't really function properly in a game mostly built on teaming up with others. Sure, the auto can tank but it's not better than any other tank job, unless you want to avoid like charm.

The DD frames don't really play well with other people(due to attachments), and don't do enough damage to justify going all in buffing the auto. The BLM frame has a niche use, but you are better off bringing a cor, rng, blm, sch, rdm etc. WHM frame is trash, and so is mostly the RDM. Unless you plan on just DDing yourself, and lack support

I think the point is Automaton outside of Overdrive is not meant to be your main source of damage. Pup, same as BST is meant to have split damage between master and automaton. Supporting automaton with high base acc and att would support that idea, because high attack and accuracy don't make you OP on lower level stuff because both have a cap, but also let automaton maintain hit rate and damage vs higher lvl enemies without specific pet buffs. So that's ideal. Improving automaton's base damage, WS damage etc. instead would be very hard to balance, because you would still lack damage and acc without buff, but with optimal buffs automaton could be too op on its own. So adding 10 acc,att and maybe +1 base stats (str/dex/etc) per ML would be fantastic and would be very safe from balance standpoint. I'm disappointed they can't notice that and see this as bug :(

It's a bit different between BST/PUP. BST brings a lot of utility to the party, even if it's not widely adapted(and you buff yourself). Where as you have to be in some sort of semblance of a hybrid set for the auto to get tp. On BST, you can go solely master focused and swap into pet gear for ready. The frames are obviously stuck in the 75 era, and have not been updated with the times