String Theory: A Puppetmaster's Guide *NEW*

Yes, PUP, aswell as pets in general outside of some BST pets have no natural TA so AM3 is the only way to get it

It should be a max of 5 hits for Bone Crusher (3 base + 2 extra) when either an AM3 TA procs or when DA from gear or attachments procs twice.

I don't think AM3 and DA can stack on WS as the highest damage to date was around 37-38k~ with AM3, which I was able to achieve without AM3 as well.

It would work different than for players then?
Afaik AM3 for players can proc once, but doesn't block proc of other MA on second check for MA proc on multihit WS.

Just tested it for players to make 100% sure.

In 40 Cross Reapers with Mythic AM3 up and 0 DA, I got 0 WSs that hit 5 or 6 times. If Mythic AM3 could proc twice on a WS, there would only be about a 0.025% chance of that happening, so it's pretty safe to say AM3 can only proc once.

I then tested Cross Reaper with AM3 up and 50% DA, and after about 15 WSs I got a 5 hit Cross Reaper, so they can both proc on the same WS.

How much DA can puppets get? If it's low, it might just be a case of "it hasn't happened yet".

Something around 34~39 not counting coiler II which is another 15% at min

15 from taeon set, 10 from neck/ring, 4 on waist, 6 from earrings, dont think theres any other real da sources

Assuming OFs work on coiler II as i dont think there was anything that stated otherwise youd have 98% DA total with 1 thunder/light so should pretty quickly be able to confirm if it does or not

If it works like player AM3, having such a high DA rate would make it harder to confirm because if DA procs, AM3 can't. For best chances of getting both to activate, you'd need a middle of the road amount of DA.

right, forgot DA would take priority over AM2/3, same OD setup with no thunder would take it down to 53%~ can really set the puppet up to whatever DA amount you want in chunks

I have 35% DA in the set I've been using for Ambu all month. As mentioned above, I've never seen AM3+DA go above the 37-38k total damage I've observed with Xiucoatl or Sakpata's Fists, both of which don't add enough damage to mimic an additional hit.

I guess this means that AM3 works slightly differently for pets than for players.

so where did everyone go for skillups?
I'm currently skilling up magic on Warder of Temperance because escha's infinite MP for auto & Temperance is immune to magic.
Anything somewhere immune to ranged dmg?

If you can set up the AI right and it not run in due to bad pathing colo reives that are seldom hit are where i skilled ranged/magic

There may be some delve pop NMs with weird immunities or at least super high -dt? Could be worth looking into at least.

You can try Wildskeeper reives, raptor one
Edit. There is also Hefty Marolith in Cirdas Cavern, they are kinda resistant to phys dmg iirc ?

All of the NMs used in Shantotto Mission 8 except for Steely Weapon are immune to ranged damage.

Warder of Fortitude has 95% PDT, though people might get annoyed at you for holding.

Anyone else have problems holding hate on Kei when using the solo SAM SC method?
I could hold hate for a few minutes, then lose it the rest of the fight no matter what.
Felt it was pretty much no point to try and only there for fullers (so sam can run out of range).
Was using a Turtle set (from guide) with no DD output really except for Taeon set.
I switch to full Heyoka set for more Emnity+ but ZERO improvement.
On another run a different PUP didn't do any better either.

I was not convinced Pet HP gear seemed to not make much of a difference when tanking, but now I may be convinced it helps.
I switched to full Rao NQ set with Gnafron's Adargas. Had around 4700HP or so.

Auto with the exact same other pieces held hate 100% of the time. So strange.
Could be my imagination but using Repair Oil +3 whenever Repair was up helped too perhaps.
I was just using Fire, Water, Light. Almost never use Earth Maneuevers.
It's stupid expensive, but now i'm slowing upgrading from NQ Rao set to HQ.

Are there any example NMs where you felt that tons of pet HP helped hold hate?
Any strategy you use when you're losing hate other than 3 fire maneuvers?

Is there an idiots guide to killing Kei in under 5 minutes with PUP as tank?
We've only been able to kill him with the SAM method, but our jobs are kind of limited.
I'm guessing all mage jobs and PUP tank might be best.
We're of course spamming T1 spells too and light SC with MB.
We also tried using a COR to spam Light SC after fusion but they couldn't TP fast enough.
Tacticians Rolls was up too.
I've watched every Kei video there is, but we still have trouble. Must be something simple we are overlooking.
Maybe not spamming T1 spells enough or using the wrong element on accident.

PS would love to see a video of PUP tanking some V15 NMs. I hope to be able to do that eventually.
Right now our group is stuck on V5. Taking forever. We had to have someone gear up COR just to get a clear. Think it was Arebati V5 if I remember right.

Biggest issue on taking a pet like pup to kei is its hard to counter the slow spikes once OD wears, players can get around this with march/geo-haste, iirc its either 100 or 50 slow, which in both cases cant be covered with TC unless you want to ride multiple wind.

A dd with a good multistep can handle kei, having a tank helps, but may not be necessary, can also do the mb method like you say, also rng trueflight method, just depends what you have to work with really

Max HP directly affects how much Enmity you lose when you take damage, hence the recommendation for Rao+1 and other HP gear when a Bruiser maton is not viable: https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/Enmity#Cumulative_Enmity_Loss

As a result the max HP setup works well for pretty much any NM with tankbuster moves (e.g. Pain Sync or certain Gaol NMs) beyond just adding survivability.

As for maneuvers I usually go with double Fire and one Light unless the majority of incoming damage is magical. With the high HP nukes don't really bother a turtle maton even without a Water Maneuver.

Have nothing to add for the PUP side, But SAM doing solo SC should just tank. Been a long while since I have done it, but doing capped SC any tank will have a hard time holding it off you.

This. I see no reason to add PUP there. Fullers can be easily countered by having more than 2500HP on DD (3000+ to be safe). Just keep HP topped before forcing Fullers and its easy. Ofc its even easier for someone like MNK, but with current gear it can really be done on any DD usually used for solo SC on Kei. If you use WHM, you can also cureskin before Fuller and if you use GEO, remember to unsommon Luopan, so DD is the only target to force 2500 damage Fullers.

I see one. PUP could MB all of those skillchains very nicely while acting as a safety net in case the SAM dies.

Its really hard to die, unless you have no healer. I can see pup helping with damage as nuker, but I wouldnt use PUP before you have BRD>WHM>COR>GEO. Also even if you somehow die, idle sets for support are now so strong, that you can easily hold it until SAM unweak. Also I would take BLM over PUP for reasons you posted, because BLM will nuke better (and that mb damage is really not important anyway. Buffed SAM or MNK destroy Kei in several minutes), but also BLM can do counter nuking to shut down Kei's regen in case of SAM dying.

Your argument basically boils down to "why bring PUP or x job to anything if a superior setup is possible?"

It's such a pointless post. We already know PUP is rarely optimal and we've heard it a thousand times. Not everyone just wants to play nothing but the fastest (meta) setups possible, nor do all groups always have all of those jobs available.

This is a PUP thread, so the discussion is how to utilize PUP most efficiently in a given party setup. Nobody cares if other jobs are better suited. People can discuss that in general or other job threads.

Totally fair point,my point was more PLD/RUN will have a hard time holding off a DD doing capped SC. Not to derail bringing PUP at all

Ok then I would probably set automaton as RDM and debuff Kei to help SAM this way (also automaton would cast Haste2 right?)

Rdm maton will cast haste 2 as well as distract 2 and addle.

puppet will only haste II master

I need to try this ASAP. Lately vs Kei I do feel like I'm only there for the mid-boss, clearing floors and backup in case the SAM dies.

A few days ago I had no issues holding hate with a SAM, but last night we had a differently geared SAM and I probably only held hate for a few minutes in the whole fight. But yes, now I see there is no point in even trying. He was using Masamune R15 I think and his last SC was for "only" 99999.

At times I felt like i'd be more useful on my DNC for steps only and haste samba. No mage jobs geared at all.

Tonight I was going to come as a RDM Auto, but I seriously did not know they only give Haste 2 to the master! Wonder why SE did this..

Totally not looking forward to making yet another Herculean Set with MAB/MACC. I keep removing all the augments for a Pet STP set which I almost never use.

It's too bad the Nyame set only has PET MACC +50 on it. Wonder if any are still worth using for BLM Auto.

Off topic, but i'm assuming that for a MONK or DNC solo SC method GEO, BRD and maybe COR are totally essential right?
I tried as DNC, but felt like I was TPing in slow-mo. Never EVER have that issue and I think it was because I only had BRD songs and Haste 2.
Could just barely pull off a single Darkness SC. I think if our RDM had come as GEO instead like he normally does, we would have gotten a win.

DNC is not really good for Kei. You need light not darkness. So with DNC you would need to mix using sword and dagger to make Light SC, which isn't undoable, but it's rather tedious af.

Monk only needs BRD and COR and WHM trust. Geo is completely optional.

I highly recommend equipping Scanner (to disable Aspir) and use Pet MACC food as Kei can be rather resistant without rolls/Languor. Avoid Mana Channelers. Triple Ice and Deactivate/Activate to restore MP.

• Ice Maker

• Scanner

• Tranquilizer 3

• Tactical Processor (probably not necessary and you could use Tranq 4, but if the SCs are happening very fast it might help the maton keep up)

• Amplifier

• Amplifier 2

• Heatsink

• Optic Fiber

• Optic Fiber 2

• Mana Tank 4

• Mana Tank 3

• Turbo Charger 2 (potentially helps with individual spell recasts)

Manafont will speed up the matons MBing as well and even make it double MB sometimes. It may end up using the wrong elements due to recasts, however. If you end up having Overdrive for the fight, don't try to use other maneuvers than triple Ice, as OD doesn't triple maneuvers for Ice Maker.

This is weird but I laughed anyway, Hunting4games video not mine

To repost a question that I also asked to the general Odyssey thread...

I saw some discussion here on p.68 about whether BLM puppet could be viable for Ongo (particularly higher than Vengeance 0), but what about tanking puppets? FWIW, I did an Ongo on V0 with PUP tank and we won (not a perfect setup, but struggled through and cleared in time) - but obviously V0 isn't the same as higher level.