Dev Tracker - Discussion

Is it GM Dave tho or a randum scrub

GMs aren't ilvl, we'd smoke them

Someone did post September's update news on the OF that was shared, better than trying to auto-translate captioning the video.

Google translate

I imagine it would have to be Dave, right? That way they can justify throwing Jormungand in there as an add?

i guess it makes sense with how the zone is designed for the NMs to be free for all, but that kinda necessitates them also being hp sponges and less challenging in general. meh, better than WOE style where you needed temps just to survive the overtuned stats they gave everything.

Don't really know why, but they made a full list of how to get all af pieces, where to get the REMs to upgrade them and where the upgrade mats come from.

Seems pointless with the wikis but it's there now.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/63220-%E3%82%A2%E3%83%BC%E3%83%86%E3%82%A3%E3%83%95%E3%82%A1%E3%82%AF%E3%83%88%E3%81%AE%E5%85%A5%E6%89%8B%E3%81%A8%E5%BC%B7%E5%8C%96%E7%B4%A0%E6%9D%90%E4%B8%80%E8%A6%A7

Especially odd since they lay out how each AF piece is obtained, but with no context for how you actually flag the quest, NPC to talk to, etc.

Like, anyone who needs to consult this chart to know that you get your DRG AF weapon by doing a quest is not getting a ton of valuable information when they see:

Well intentioned, half assed effort. I suppose they can't link to a wiki... but that's what a person would need to do to know what it is.

And if the intent is to wiki, then just go to the wiki.

Sounds like augments and a point system to cap it out?

HNM to make accessories? What kind of accessories?

Youll find out in two weeks.

I wouldn't be shocked if they're "in limbus" effects though

I had the thought that since they made all of the drops from Limbus purchasable from Curio, they might repurpose those same assets into modern versions (Brutal Earring, loquacious, patentia sash etc), kind of like how they did the same thing with UNM equipment from the original NMS that dropped items.

almost guaranteed, same way the beseiged stuff is all repurposed from IS items. SE only really knows how to rehash stuff they've done before.

I seriously think they lack the tools to make anything new

MMOs get a pass because of the amount of content required to keep people playing, but still. they did make a new BCNM for TVR and I think that plus odyssey armor is the only new assets in nearly a decade?

oh forgot Silver Knife but that barely counts

I'll be happy with an all jobs DA+7% earring and a FC+3% earring. 6%/2% would be disappointing.

Might also mean they start with the accessories first from the floor NMs, but a megaboss (Omega/Ultima) could be in the works for updated sets, though idk if they do the Homam/Nashira again seeing as how those sets got repurposed with Ambuscade. Will have to wait and see.

I feel like silver knife was in the dev files somewhere and probably just not released
Probably created with adoulin or was in some cutscene once showing you the inside of a "house"

Everything we saw added with tvr may have already existed or was recolored
Sortie is just retooled vagary stitched together

It just would make sense if they can only work with what's already there
And not just assets
But I could also see them only being able to reuse existing pieces of code

It was 100% part of the Adoulin .dat files already. The devs confirmed it when it was released.

I mean...most code is reused in one way or another so then do you just call all programming derivative because they're using an existing code base or libraries?

It's clear that all the sortie objectives are new code. The bosses have mechanics that don't exist in vagary, the aggro in the basement works differently from other places. The locked doors, teleport system, and various other things are new (or new implementations) functions. The earring/case system is new.

What exactly are we qualifying as a new feature, exactly? They added new items, new gearing systems and currencies, new timer systems...

It's incredibly short-sighted to say nothing new has been coded in ffxi. Unless you mean like...in the last 2 months?

Well to expand upon the vagary sortie relationship

The objectives system already existed
Filling that in with new data is not nearly as complicated task as creating new content with new mechanics rules and assets

Making it drop something in your inventory as personal pool that might be a fresh one.

Adding something like an aura to a boss is also not like a brand new invention.

Are you sure some of those boss mechanics don't exist in vagary already? Or in some other content?

You're the one trying to tell me the mechanics exist elsewhere, you tell me where they exist. Staring at a device for 30 seconds while standing still? Boss does a massive nuke after 3 minutes, reduced by n damage for every light-based attack used on it. DT stacks that increase if they're not proc'd. Double hands with massive DT? Dropping fetters based on remaining HP?

Just because we ignore a lot of the mechanics doesn't mean nobody programmed them.

Also all the bosses have metal mechanics which are new...it's extremely ignorant to say nothing has been added to the game.

The entire limbus system. Graces are like atma I guess...except they're not chosen by the player, have scaling values, and are assigned based on your KI ownership and not based on settings you do at an NPC.

Again...it's like saying "Simpsons did it" but for programming. You can say XYZ is similar to ABC, but that completely dismisses the actual design and coding that went into making these things.

Ruspix plate, even though everyone hates it, is also a new system similar, but functionally different to other previous systems.

I could go on forever.

I mean
Matamatas variable MDT and PDT based on physical or magic dealt to it is more complex than a tracking light damage done to reduce damage of a specific attack.

Boss does an attack at a certain interval? Totally new, Bumba absolutely does not have a timer based mechanic to spawn fetters.

Plouton depops if you dont proc it, heal it too much, or someone dies.


Thats the tippy top of my head.

Stare mechanics??

You mean the original way to get into Den of Rancor with the paintbrush of souls??

Whats the difference between tracking a variable that counts light damage done to reduce setting the stage and tracking a variable that tracks damage done of a specific type to reduce caturae shield?

I don't know what they can and can't do specifically with FFXI code, was mostly a jab at SE and FF in general for reusing so many things. I do think there is plenty they are still capable of that would challenge players who want difficult encounters, but it doesn't seem to be a priority for them right now.

Also a big shift in my appreciation of FFXI. Used to be completely happy maxing out gear. Could not have cared less if that meant dynamis spinoff for the 10th time, or whatever. Now, that drive is pretty much entirely gone and doesn't satisfy the way it did.

Do go on because the list of existing reused things or similar in relationship, patterns? is also a fascinating discussion in itself

Paintbrush is a pretty good spot, sounds pretty reasonable in theory to be similar mechanic for the chest. A function was built out to check gaze at some point could be applied also to petro eyes mechanics.

And I am not saying there hasnt been new programming
I can take existing code and rework it, bam new programming
The actual word choice is pretty challenging to convey

That I am saying there hasn't been to many traces of fresh extensive developmental engineering or new graphical assets structures in some time.

And don't take that as a opportunity to be like what about tvr bro

We have a mission engine.
They may have come up with some new methods for animations and animation detections during this period.

I am also not attempting to be negative about this, I genuinely think for some reason the options are limited for what they can and can't do at this time

Be it budget, tool or talent related.

Having to redo limbus the zone itself instead of introducing a fresh zone or second entry for limbus II is a strange design choice
Why?

I think their limitations are a mix of engine based and also not wanting to make gimmicks that low JP ping can deal with but high NA ping cant be dealt with outside of automation

Programming is only one side of the fact, the other is asset. Odyssey for example is mostly reused assets, but they did have to go in and recolor them, and there is a good bunch of never previously seen behaviors - which means new code being written and tested.

Sortie by comparison has absolutely zero new assets and 99% behaviors already seen previously somewhere. Of course copying those behaviors from somewhere else and pasting it in there means some testing, but it's significantly less since the scripts already existed.

So yeah, technically both contents did require the same kind of operation, but if you do into details it's evident how Odyssey would have taken a lot more developer time to finish than Sortie did.

(bit of an oversemplification for sake of simplicity)

OK but if you get down to the "Simpsons did it" logic then there's literally nothing new.

Odyssey: These bosses are the same models as WKR. Auras existed before (in fact, WKR/Delve bosses had them). Procs to remove auras, including dealing typed damage, existed before. Fetters existed before, as early as WOTG. DT existed before. The idea of fighting enemies at varied levels existed before. RP Existed before. Entry KIs existed before.

Wow, what a bunch of recycled ideas! Can't they come up with anything original?!

Combining the ideas together, deciding which ones go with which area, setting the stats for the enemy, making new items, balancing the stats on the items, enemies, etc. all take development time. CHANGING the existing mechanics, either through scripts or code or whatever, involves development time.

Also the paintbrush isn't a stare. You click, then wait and click again. It's more like a cutscene than a stare, and you can't move anyway so it's not really a "forced stay still" mechanic.

If we're going over other potentially new things, I think most of the Sortie objectives are novel. Can you think of places requiring:
Opening doors in a specific order?
Opening doors within a certain time limit?
Wearing a specific lockstyle?
Getting naked?

IDK, I don't have an encyclopedic knowledge of every quest in the game but these aren't exactly off-the-shelf ideas you can just quickly grab, and even if you could...you still need to incorporate it into the new mechanic you're working on. You don't just call "paintbrushofsouls.dll" and you're done programming the G box, time to go to lunch.

I'm sure they have some limitations on what they can do, they've told us they have limitations on the number of new instances they can make, there are data speed issues, they are stuck with POL, and they have to make new animations/cutscenes on their old PS2 dev kits or whatever, but I think the talking point (not necessarily from Jinxs specifically, but more broadly) that SE hasn't done any development or made anything new is an ignorant point by people who massively underestimate what has been done, likely because they've never coded a thing in their lives.