Dev Tracker - Discussion

brb gonna report everyone with a final form shield

You wouldn't be wrong.

Yeah, he would.

At this point there is essentially no one that doesn't break the TOS in some capacity.

Sparks lua really does effect the community. without the tedium, inflation wouldn't be as bad.

Everything, literally everything you do. has an impact on everyone. (not necessarily a direct impact)

idk breaking your mind is similar to breaking the ToS. And when you log in it says not to play so much...

Before they updated things sure a lot. Unloaded sparks was intolerable manually going thru the whole set of menus each time.

But now it's not so bad unless you multiboxing sparks

Botting is one of the reasons myself and a friend quit this game. We got so fed up with being behind on gear and mastering jobs because we don't have 4 accounts each to bot with and make 112 million gil a month while we sleep.

I don't care if you want your WHM alt to use healbot while you're derping around on 4 accounts as long as you're physically at the seat doing the derping. At a certain point, though, trying to compare to people who bot just becomes infuriating.

Sad to hear you go, lvlilla. The unfortunate fact is that we never gonna get rid of the likes of cumatmebro.

There's botting and then there's afk botting. Shouldn't be hard to figure out which one is the problem.

Yeah, there is a major difference between "I have four characters and am tabbing back and fourth through three while the fourth is a WHM using healbot" and then there's "I have four characters, three DDs set to kill everything in [this camp] and a fourth that is a WHM with healbot, and I do this every night while I sleep and day while I'm at work.

I soloed almost all of my JP on Dancer on Apex mobs- like 1700 of it, iirc- and only two of my jobs are mastered. Meanwhile, I know people who have every job at master, even if they don't play it, most of which they got mastered while AFK. The easiest way they could combat people botting CP is to drastically lower the number of job points you can have unspent at once. The faster you hit the cap the more frequently you have to go spend 'em, sure, but it also makes botting them much more ineffective.

I appreciate that it's impossible to do most anything that's worth doing in this game by yourself after a certain point, and that the easiest way can often be simply running multiple characters, since it can be painful at times to find people for certain content, between the dwindling playerbase and the number of people who are capable who already cleared/no longer need the content you want. There is, again, a huge difference between tri-boxing to "solo" Pakecet and stuff like botting dynamis 24/7 (which I have seen people do), and botting CP/sparks.

Of course, the problem is, at this point, banning people for botting would result in a significant decrease in the number of active accounts (at least on Asura), since so many people in the 'end game' community do it.

I also appreciate that it's hard to squarely assign blame; people bot because the game is ridiculously grindy, and the game is ridiculously grindy to have enough "content" to make people keep playing for long stretches (not to provide players with a sense of pride and accomplishment). I appreciate that running Nyzul Isle 214 times to make a mythic is a lot more work than getting the gil required to buy one during your sleep over a month and a half, but it puts players who don't do it at a significant disadvantage.

I don't want to play a game where I spent 14 months playing virtually nothing but White Mage because a) no one wants to play White Mage and b) I can't make the money to compete with people who bot to make their money because my resources for gearing are much more limited.

To elaborate further:

If you have 3 characters who you use to bot sparks while you are asleep, go and spend the sparks when you get up, and repeat the process while you're at work, you're looking at 180 million gil per month with no input on your own part. (1 mil per character, times three characters, times two farms per day.) Four characters, and it's 240 million gil while you sleep and are at work. I know people who do this.

Meanwhile, I farm Dynamis as DNC/--- with TH3, and spend two hours to come out with ~700 currency, on average, making ~2.1 million gil per farm. (~1 mil per hour.) This means that I need to spend 180 hours per month, or six hours per day, farming Dynamis just to make the same amount of money someone botting makes while they're asleep and at work. That six hours a day of actually being at their computer they can then use to do whatever else, which can include "soloing" content and selling the drops, the money from which they don't need to share with anyone.

How the hell am I supposed to compete with that? My Dancer is well geared, but nowhere near as well geared as DDs of some of the people I know who can afford BiS everything (that can be bought), and have multiple DD jobs mastered. (Especially when I don't get to play anything but White Mage because these people would rather spend 600 million gil gearing 2-3 DD or Tank jobs than spend 100 million or less getting WHM up to snuff. Even if you 'require' your WHM to have a Yagrush, that's ~167 million gil, which is less than they make while botting for a month.)

And I can't afford BiS everything because dropping 30 million gil on a piece of gear is nothing for them, whereas that's 30 hours of farming dynamis for me, and that's assuming I don't have to put up with botters in Dynamis!

If I sound ridiculously salty, I am. I love this game, but it is completely unenjoyable for me, and people botting contributes to a large part of that.

I fully agree with your hatred of bots and why, but some of us actually did work our way to that without having to bot. So it is still possible to make it work.

I understand that there are also plenty of players who did things legitimately, but that doesn't lessen my frustration any, or make me want to resub. I made two mythics and an empyrean, and afterglowed one myth and the empyrean, without botting. I know things can be done. I just hate the fact that to get on the same level as botters this game effectively becomes a job.

Because I cannot "just do me". Do you not understand that someone having 3-4x the resources I do to gear their characters, due to botting, means I can't afford gear that is as good as theirs? Why should anyone take a DD in a party who has 90% of the DPS of another DD who is much better geared because the player bots and has tons of gil they didn't really earn?

Other people botting for sparks on multiple characters and then turning those sparks into gil means that they have far more resources available than I do, which means they can be far better geared than I am, which means taking them over me in any role they are capable of filling is a better choice. Again, if someone can make in their sleep and while at work what I need to spend six hours a day, every day, farming, that's an advantage that I cannot overcome.

The simple fact of the matter is that how other people play a multiplayer game can impact other players' experiences extremely negatively without any direct action or malice on the part of the impacting players. One person botting a specific camp for 16 hours a day means no one else can use that camp, for a non-gil example. Someone botting 16 hours a day only needs to make ~4.3 job points an hour to master a job in a month. And, again, this is while they are not at the computer. You could be out clubbing an earning job points and making gil (via sparks) if you wanted.

And if someone has an insanely well geared DD character, that they funded via botting, and the only thing it needs to do is "target mob, WS at 1kTP", why should they take my DD when I'm not as well geared as they are?

Also, as much as I appreciate people farming dyna so that we can still buy currency for relics... it really isn't the best way to make gil in the games current state. If you have even two friends, you can do content that can net you 1m every ~15m if not more.

The game throws gil at you just for playing current content, combined with the majority of the gear you use being r/ex, and it's never been better.

Some of this is kinda silly, honestly. A couple years ago I was buying my first Adhemar+1 set for 200-300m per piece. Now you can buy a full set for under 100m. Prices are down, not up.

I mean this part:


Bill Gates does this with $$, have you quit your job, too?

There ain't pvp, and a mmorpg needs its competitive part in order to be successful. Believe or not, epeen fills the void somewhat. Cheating obviously hurts the competition.

I imagine everything would be much, much more expensive without the botters. I guess it would just even out the profit being a crafter, but for those that depend on things like gain-exp for gil, you're going to be putting in a lot more time to be able to afford these BiS HQs as compared to now where mats are abundant and cheap.

I agree with your resentment, I feel it completely myself, but at this point in game nothing and I swear nothing is going to revert things or make them more "even" for every one of us.
Let's face it. As much as we can be frustrated by it, it's way beyond repair.

Think we just have to learn to not care about all of this and enjoy whatever little time we have left with the game, and that's it.

I can sense that the issue of yours can be fixed if you aligned yourself with a good "likeminded" alliance.

Changing servers is also an option and I'm sure many LS's will welcome you for endgame, I know many on "Leviathan" that would.

Personally, and post 2016 bot booming I found the best way to combat this is through an alliance of like minded players.
[Players that oppose the idea of the easy route to endgame and want to experience it to its maximum potentials with all its failures].

It was a long way but challenges were met and almost all the alliance now is decked out (each in their respective job/s) and when we look back on what we did, more often than not we feel that sense of achievement/pride.

Jokes were made, trolls were adamant to belittle new "under geared" members but hey, when they found out that we build weapons or give HQ signed gear to each other on Xmas... salt was basically everywhere.

Most of (if not all) our HQ gear is crafted/signed by us, Our leader has all crafts and corresponding shields to level 2,3 and she inspired most of us to do the same! (each in their respective craft)..

We farm our own mats for any upgrade possible, cook our own food and farm all Aeonic pops (including fishing) and we utilize ambuscade for currency (trade) amongst each other (same as Dyna D) so our expenses are always kept to its minimum..

We don't have an LS bank at all and we are all separated in expenses but we do make deals with one another and Im sure many people on many servers do the same.

If we can do it on a small server such as Leviathan, I'm 100% sure you can easily do it on Asura (it just needs time and consistency and a great leader/Team spirit)

FFXI is a game, which should be played because you enjoy it. It is not real life. If Bill Gates were breaking the law to make his money in his sleep, would you have a problem with it? Botters are doing things they're not supposed to do, and it gives them an unfair advantage over people who do not bot.

And if people didn't have all this gil from botting, prices couldn't be ridiculously high, because demand would drop. When a not insignificant portion the server can afford to pay 300m for something because they bot, people will charge 300m. If everyone was on a roughly equal footing, sure, there are ways to earn gil that are better than others, but prices would have to be lower. It's basic economics.

The simple fact of the matter is too many people care way too much- and at some times, yes, this can be important- about having the absolute highest theoretical damage output, I cannot compete with someone who has 3x or more gil than I do to spend on gear, which they earn in their sleep. Would you invite a non-afterglow DD to something when there's people to grab who have afterglowed, best-in-slot DDs? Would you take an "NQ" GEO when there's plenty of "HQ" ones around who got that afterglow from money from botting?


I understand that. It's just frustrating that I have been relegated to perma-WHM in part because I can't gear anything to do damage compared to what a botter can gear a DD to do. If I am never at an acceptable level- and if it's seriously a 5~10 percent DPS difference, that makes me 'unacceptable'- why take me for that? If I can't afford all the best gear but someone else who bots for sparks can, and it is ideal to take them instead of me, why take me? 14 months of being relegated to playing virtually nothing but White Mage due to a combination of that and no one wanting to play/gear White Mage have just made this game unplayable. Getting told I'll never get to bring anything but White Mage to Dynamis Divergeance because my Corsair could not reliably, 100% of the time one-shot statues, and that I would never come Dancer because other people had DRK and WAR that were capable of outDPSing me- even if it was a minor difference- because I don't have the ridiculous sums required to BiS everything, that just kills the ability for me to enjoy the game.

Like, if you seriously don't understand how unfair of an advantage someone has when they can make 180/+ million gil while they're not even at the computer, from botting, and how negatively it impacts others' game experience, I just don't understand where you're coming from. Again, me having to spend 6 hours a day farming in a video game just to "catch up" to a botter is *** insane and ridiculous. Do you think that the bans handed out for Salvage exploits were acceptable? 'cause this is just another form of "doing ***you're not supposed to do and getting a huge advantage over players who don't do it".

If the money supply were cut in half, far fewer people would be able to spend 300m on a single piece of gear, which would mean that crafters would have to charge less or not sell anything. If crafters are selling at lower prices, profit margins decrease, which means that prices paid for mats goes down.

If people could no longer bot, and had to do actual content, the amount of money in the economy would decrease and bring the incomes of botters closer to equal with non-botters which would mean that it would be easier for non-botters to afford 'required' gear. Again, this is basic economics. If the amount of money total was cut in half, but it was done in a fashion that did not affect the incomes of non-botters, that is a good thing for non-botters, because it increases the purchasing power they have.

The irony is that almost all of these complaints are more relevant to gain exp than botting.

Botting damn near anything except sparks reduces prices and increase availability across the board.

I think the ironic part is the linkshell he's in. Do you not realize that your linkshell is half the problem lol?

And gain-money is absolutely regoddamndiculous. it should not be a thing.

If SE nerfs sparks ratio, it’s enough to fix it..
They did it before, they can definitely do it again