Dev Tracker - Discussion

Honestly I don't know how they could have put more incentive on the segments farming. In only 30 mins you get :
- segments to farm ody NM (between 1 and 4 pop)
- scales/hides/wings to upgrade UNM items or sell for profit in case of scales/hides
- between 500k and 1.3M gils just like that
- decent amount of JP/EP

The time invested/rewards ratio is just great.

There's no excuse for not doing segment farming if someone is on and got a moglophone available. It's only player laziness. And to justify that laziness it's mostly : "But segs requires a specific setup and nobody wants my niche job or my undergeared dps "
Well sure, but it's also possible to /yell and create a casual farm group (which can also be more enjoyable because most of the time nobody will care then if you wipe or miss a group of mobs or whatever).
Again, it's mainly laziness because most people don't want to spend time /yelling or make the effort the create a party (and I'm one of them these days so I'm not one to judge here, just looking at facts).

Using a moogle amplifier on the edit then? I'm sorry to have angered you. I just wanted you to understand that it's silly to be upset about unlocking it 'the right way' when people are clearly not RPing 'the right way'.

EDIT:
I still love you though <3

Like I said, it's not about taking a shortcut, it's about crying over consequences. You use the shortcut and go straight to Bumba with someone? That's fine, I would do it myself if I would start now probably. Stop whining that using this shortcut for clear doesn't allow you to pop Bumba yourself and better be glad that such shortcut exists at all though.

I love you too <3

To be clear, I want the Nms to function independently. You would still have to progress them normally, but once you cleared everything at V0 you could start climbing 5>10>15 to be able to lead a group in for that specific NM. Getting someone to lead you into Bumba V20 and carrying you would not unlock your access to enter previous tiers. You would still have to defeat those specific NMs and the V you wanted to enter or higher.


For the effort, this gear is kinda ****** to be honest.


This is a bit harsh. The issue is that there isn't currently any content in the game that proves this gear. Also, many of the exclusive affixes like phalanx+, ability delay and traits come without the need for RP and don't increase with it. This could change depending on future augmentation, but it would still come at the end of a lot of work for little gain.

Make it not lag? I'm on Fiber and I can't stand Ody or Dyna because of their lag.

Sorry for the late reply, I missed this response.

So I completely understand your complaints here. Xevioso(I main cor) is our groups last NM to complete, and we've been pretty lax about finishing all of the gear for gleti/bunzi/Ikenga. I understand the struggle to get the less popular NM's RP done but this is also solved by making a static. We did 3 pieces for each of the less needed NM's between nyame, Agwu and sakpata. This gave every job a little bit of progress but overall we still plan on finishing for finishing's sake.

The reason I bring up static is you can work together to come up with the best way forward, maybe rotate NM's for A3, and if they don't want the gear they can convert to segments and have less to stress about making sure they're present for farms. But realistically if pugging isnt working for you maybe talk to friends about gearing up jobs so when 4th line augs come out you guys have a team ready for all of the challenges.

I feel your pain in Xevioso Afania, best of luck

FYI - You're connecting to servers in Japan and therefore the latency is dictated by the physical distance and best route between both countries, so your FTTx (Fiber) connection is mostly irrelevant in this case.

However, packet data for FF11 was designed for 56k modem data flows since the ancient dial-up internet days and haven't changed since then. The sad sacks of ***of a game producer and director have neither taken the initiative to direct their development teams since then to improve client server communication to keep up with broadband and demanding game situations. When this was brought to their attention in 2018 at the FFXI Developer AMA, this was their response;

Now the problem is when latency between client-server increases in FF11, many things go wrong because of how poorly the code is written / designed, and that's why many European players with average latencies above 200-250ms suffer the most, along with some players in certain areas in North America. Players connecting from Japan have 10ms average latency, and thus are the least to go through the same experiences other regions do. So, the next time you think about the horrible lag in Dynamis, Sheol C, or Goal, ask yourselves why producers don't give a flying F about other regions experience, and why after decades of denying extra storage possibility, they managed to implement it with the incentive of milking the extra dollars on your monthly.

Except I have zero issues in Sortie, vagary, or any number of other content.

Edit: Even AoE'ing in Crawler's Nest before the additional locus monsters were thrown in the mix with 25+ targets and other group's tanks running by with 20+ targets I didn't lag there the same way Dyna or Ody lags.

I might have confused you with that sentence, basically whether you're on Fiber/Cable/xDSL connection it won't make difference to your specific case, the problem is not stemming from your internet.

Not every area in the game is the same, and what you experience in one area can very well be different to another, ie mainly Divergence & Odyssey, as you stated.

You opened with telling me about servers being in Japan and latency being dictated by distance. And I'm telling you I don't want to hear about distance or latency because the game clearly runs fine in many other areas and with many actions happening within the area of your character.

They need to fix Dyna & Ody.

A 6man content like Ody Farming has no business being dramatically worse experience to play than AoEing with 40+ mobs actioning in Crawler's Nest.

Within Ody I regularly experience dropped packets that directly affect my character and my experience playing:

1) I go to WS and often I won't even see the animation. TP is gone, huge chunk of mob health disappeared, but no WS animation. Last night I saw one where two of us WS'd, and the mob died, but I saw no animation for either of our WS. I don't think I EVER saw this behavior in Crawler's Nest, and there was a LOT more going on in the Nest than in Ody.

2) I go to WS, and the animation goes off a full 2 seconds later. I go to phalanx, haste, or refresh someone and the spell starts casting a full 2 secs later. These are not all the time things, but they are often and they also happen when no one is even fighting anything. And again, even in Crawler's Nest AoE groups, this was not happening to me.

3) Mobs that are dead stay on screen, often with me still locked onto the dead mob instead of auto targeting the next mob. It's not the end of the world, I know how to change targets, but it adds to the whole mess of an experience that Ody is. And again, in Crawler's Nest, this was not happening to me.

Sortie is amazing compared to Ody in the context of network performance, and we're regularly AoE'ing things down in there and I see none of these flaws in there at all.

We want to talk about Ody not getting the play time expected? We want to talk about people not doing the content. It's a trash experience for a lot of people. And Dynamis-D has been that way for years, too. I got the wave3 wins for each zone within months of it coming out, and then I swore off Dynamis for literally years.

I opened with telling you about latency and physical distance to the server because that's indeed one of the root issues which I think you're missing the point on; just because you don't lag in zones outside of Odyssey or Divergence, doesn't mean that client-server communication that takes place in those 2 zones is the same as everywhere else, hence why I already told you not every zone is the same in terms of data intensity, and you can't presume that Odyssey or Divergence are as demanding as anywhere else you may think.

So, the severity of how bad you lag and experience WS delay etc will be greatly impacted by your latency to the server, which there is nothing YOU can do about, but there is a lot that Square Enix CAN do about. It's not just those 2 zones they need to fix, or optimize, the entire limitations related to client-server packet communication need to be reworked.

I hope now you understood and have better overview of the situation, here is a technical explanation that's been brought up in the past, and which again points the issue back to the game producers and developers not taking the right action to address it.

This is actually the primary problem you are describing with instanced zones: https://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/56713/packetflow-for-ashita-and-windower/#3627187

The latency to Japan isn't really causing the problem because they throttle the round trip time. The packet size limit (server -> client) does affect it. Packetflow helps it a bit but the real problem is the packet prioritization issues in instances.

Oh really? I wonder why I said "Make it not lag?" in my original comment that you replied to? I wonder why I said "They need to fix Dyna & Ody" in a subsequent comment?

OBVIOUSLY there's nothing I can do to fix it and I hadn't suggested there was.

Edit: Anyway, at the end of the day, the technical details don't matter. The results do. We've got a couple or more pages either in this thread or others talking about people not doing the content, paying for the content, and whatever else with minimal conversation about the lag fest that it is for many people.

You brought up the inquiry about the issue with lag, and with good intentions I felt the need to reiterate the reasons behind it with the relevant technical details (which do matter), instead of a half assed answer.

It wasn't an inquiry. It was a question to draw attention to a problem and me answering why a lot of people don't do the content.

Remember what I quoted before I said it?

"Honestly I don't know how they could have put more incentive on the segments farming"

Yeah Torzak, Ody has always has dropped packets issues is what I understand it to be.

ex: open a chest on thief and it just disappears but look in your inven and there's the scales.

Dynamis has always been "good lord the lag" even if efffects for others turned off etc.

You're right, and they need a better IT dept that can see a problem and fix it. You'd think being such a digital company they would have it down, but oh they struggle don't they haha.

Vaerix keeps talking about statics and I appreciate that view, but the problem we are talking about isn't for high playtime people, with regular time to form and keep up with a static. The problem is accessibility, specifically easier access to boss fights, for others, not statics. Anyone in a static on this thread isn't having any problems completing odyssey.

Sometimes I'd like to pick up and play Mario 3, I can't schedule that with 5 other people every day over years (though I wish I could!).

Most of the dropped packets and backup occur when you're gear swapping excessively. If you reduce your swaps to bare minimum, you won't really experience it, because your personal S>C queue is much smaller. Not viable for every job, but if you're running things like react and event-driven swaps in gearswap, you might be swapping massively more than needed. Most melee jobs can do pretty close to their optimal performance with just a WS swap and a few JA swaps.

Mashing macros will also make it worse because you're sending out a set of swaps every time you hit macro with GS, doubly so for ranged or magic.

So the dropped packets in ody for chest disappearing is using vanilla macro swaps, no gearswap. They don't have a secure data line for odyssey, or, its less secure in there.

It might not be the data line per se, they just messed with the code, and then had to interface it with the servers, and didn't get the handchecks right. Honestly they need to figure that stuff out before too many years go by.

You know more about this than I do Thorny. As a layman that's what I see.

Been over it in quite a few threads, the technical problem is pretty well understood from our end. The server prioritizes packets in a certain way. Every time the client sends a packet to the server, the server removes packets the client has received already, then responds with as many packets from the front of the priority queue as is possible. When there is too much going on, the queue eventually fills up and packets from the end get thrown out.

Many things can increase the amount of packets in the queue, more people actively fighting, fighting methods with more frequent actions, etc. But, most of this is not something that makes any sense to compromise on. Obviously you could take a smaller group to dynamis, but that's not viable in Odyssey. Reducing your gear swaps will reduce how much the queue gets filled, because each item you swap needs a response, and often hitting a spell macro with gearswap is going to swap 25+ items (full precast, then full midcast) for each macro press.

Using PacketFlow, as linked by Byrth, increases the amount of communications back and forth, and will help keep the queue down. Besides that, the only way to improve the issue is to reduce the amount of things the server has to send you.

I am in no way defending SE, nor exempting them from the responsibility of providing a better solution. I was just making a solution-orientated post for people who want to do something besides complain.

They forgot Fencer caps at +8. I don't expect an intern to know that. Might explain why they were reluctant to give Utsusemi/Song+2/3 enhancement on empyrean pieces. They don't test anything, so if you don't ever increase the value, you don't ever have to.

Calling it "system limitations" is hilarious. Will they drop it back to Fencer+3 or add a new tier?

Edit: trick question because we know SE would never add anything that benefits the playerbase.

I don't keep up with warrior or fencer.

I don't see how the system limitation has any affect on the gear piece. Either it's meant to be +4 and it doesn't matter if the global cap is +8 Or it's simply broken and going to be changed to +4

Neither scenario has anything to do with the system limitation of capping fencer bonuses. Unless +8 cap is unintended, but again that is independent of the specific piece being messed up. They are two separate issues.

It's meant to be (and presumably programmed as) +4, but since WAR has native 5, it only acts as +3 even if you have no other Fencer gear.

It would be like putting TH+6 on a single piece of thf equipment: You're still starting from TH8 on a mob.

The Ranger Empyrean +1-3 Double Shot enmity reduction stat also seems to defy the global enmity cap of -50, unless that term is unique and is meant to be additive to other sources of enmity reduction. Nobody seems to know. Either SE forgot about the cap or players don’t understand how it all interacts with each other. But I digress.

They are probably going to just reduce it to Fencer+3 and chalk it up as a typo/error, rather than change Fencer cap.

Because TH is still partly ambiguous, someone people would take the addition of so much TH on gear as a sign that attacking with higher TH levels leads to faster level ups, or some other meaning. It’s obviously unsubstantiated or untrue, but people will read deeper into It vs “they just made a mistake”

To be fair the small tests done about that seemed to hint that adding more TH over TH8 did indeed raise up the TH level up chance.
But the increase was so small it was either a matter of low sample or it was so small it's not worth it.

Because if they raise fencer cap realistically they need to add more levels than just 1.