What Makes A {Veteran} Vs {Amateur} Player?
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What makes a {Veteran} vs {Amateur} player?
/yell {Normal} Chpt 2 Body {Do you need it?} (5+ 119 RMEA only) 1/6
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Delagyela said: » Noob - Been playing game for a fairly long time, claims his long playtime = experience. - "windower?" - "Gearswap?" - "I tried that once but i didnt like it so i never got my rajas ring" -DRK+PUP4LYFE -"can anyone help me... its totally something i can get a pug for... too much effort.... where is that? ...." - Replies to shout "What does that drop" - "I cant afford 4$ for 160 more mog wardrobe slots" and finally the biggest problem i have "Please lockstyle because im a whm without blinkmenot/dressup" Oh boy, I just hit all of the noob red flag as well, except rajas ring and DRK+PUP4LYFE since I'm COR4LIFE ;; Caitsith.Mahayaya said: » /yell {Normal} Chpt 2 Body {Do you need it?} (5+ 119 RMEA only) 1/6 Soloable on any fresh 99 with beginner trusts.
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With the rate the game changed someone who played from 2003-2012 could consider themselves a veteran while someone who started fresh in 2014 could now be "more vet" because they'll have the ilvl gear and a better understanding of the current content. Just because someone has been around long enough to consider themselves a veteran doesn't mean they are skilled veterans.
Subjective term veteran is subjective. Rare drop appears in the treasure pool.
Veterans that know what the drop does lot on it. Amateurs ask, "Hey what is that?" Then lot on it. Then the drop is either never used before it is made irrelevant or is used incorrectly. Amateurs also shout for help getting an item, but know nothing about how or where to get it. Even if the content is months old.
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Delagyela said: » Noob -DRK+PUP4LYFE Generally this goes for any game Amateur: -doesn't play well with others. -uses "noob"
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Fenrir.Cherrywine said: » Rare drop appears in the treasure pool. Veterans that know what the drop does lot on it. Amateurs ask, "Hey what is that?" Then lot on it. Then the drop is either never used before it is made irrelevant or is used incorrectly. Amateurs also shout for help getting an item, but know nothing about how or where to get it. Even if the content is months old. Shiva.Paulu said: » With the rate the game changed someone who played from 2003-2012 could consider themselves a veteran while someone who started fresh in 2014 could now be "more vet" because they'll have the ilvl gear and a better understanding of the current content. Just because someone has been around long enough to consider themselves a veteran doesn't mean they are skilled veterans. Subjective term veteran is subjective. Verda said: » Not sure on fastcast, can say I've tested it for ranged attacks tho :) I think it works for fast cast but not if quick magic happens or your casting time is less than 1 second. Your first ranged attack is 1 second slow but it works otherwise due to the 1 second reload delay as far as I've always seen. It's been a while for fastcast for me, but I remember doing that one as: /equipset 78 /ma "Spell" <t> <wait 1> /equipset 79 78 = fastcast 79 = midcast But I wouldn't take my word on the fastcast stuff as it's been too long since I did it that way. Wow its solved. I'm an Amateur and you're a Veteran. Much much much thanks for this. The only time I swear I see veteran being used is in regards to someone coming back after quitting years ago. I still can't work out if they mean "Back in the day I was super awesome, a veteran player" or "I played ages ago, I'm a bit of a veteran"
The "veteran" shout lost all meaning.
When it first started it had some value, people knew it meant skill or knowledge or w/e keyword you want to throw in there. Now, every single shout just does it. When I see "veteran" almost every time it means "I'm being lazy i need 5 people to carry me" or "I'm terrible but I think I'm a veteran, so I shout for veterans even though I dont even change gear"
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Ultimatly the term "Veteran" should denote someone who's familiar enough with game mechanics that they don't need someone else to hold their hands and tell them what to wear and when to wear it. Most players just wear what their told to wear and thus are always months behind the trend time. They don't need to know every formula in the game but they should understand the relationship between certain stats and the abilities on the jobs they play.
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Amateur: "The pointy end is for stabbing, not holding right? Which is the pointy end anyways?"
Novice: "Stab with sword, block with shield. I know!!!" Noob: "I know what I am doing!!!" *charge* Experienced: *stab* *swab gear* *block* "[Light] --- [Weapon Skill] >>> [Weapon Skill] in 3 [ping] ---" Veteran: "Back in my day, we used to call that Buttersheep!" Expert: "You need XX Store TP for X-Hit then XXXX Acc to cap hit rate"
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Verda said: » Not sure on fastcast, can say I've tested it for ranged attacks tho :) I think it works for fast cast but not if quick magic happens or your casting time is less than 1 second. Your first ranged attack is 1 second slow but it works otherwise due to the 1 second reload delay as far as I've always seen. It's been a while for fastcast for me, but I remember doing that one as: /equipset 78 /ma "Spell" <t> <wait 1> /equipset 79 78 = fastcast 79 = midcast But I wouldn't take my word on the fastcast stuff as it's been too long since I did it that way. I just sent a pm to Buukki explaining how to preshot/mid shot or precast/mid cast with default macro. It is not ideal to use wait 1 especially for spells, due to how fast spells fire off and theres a risk of casting spells in FC gear if the spell just has low casting time. I personally don't use wait 1 for preshot/mid shot macro too, otherwise it's too risky if shots fire off in less than a sec. The way equipset is works is that game can't load 2 different equipsets in less than 1 sec, but it can with regular equip+ action+ equipset or equipset + action + regular equip. In order to switch multiple sets in 1 action(such as spells or JA), it is necessary to use equipset + regular equip swaps. Wait 1 is not necessary, game will automatically execute gears and actions in order. I also don't recommend autoRA, it's extremely bad for dps and all of the people that I know of that values their ranged attack jobs dps don't use it either. Is there a reason you don't recommend autora? How does it affect DPS?
Just curious. The irony I find in shouts (ambuscade mostly) is that the kind of player that would benefit (from that type of gear) the most would be a non-end game players. PUG shouts have just never made any sense. Most of the time its the player that's shouting that is the weak link and hence HAS to ask for 'veteran' players so they can be carried.
Leviathan.Andret said: » Expert: "You need XX Store TP for X-Hit then XXXX Acc to cap hit rate" The above is also not a good gauge of player skill, I know plenty of players that parrot the above and copy-pasta ffxiah gearsets, but should you ask them to explain the math behind it they are completely lost. I'd actually even go as far as to say I would expect ANY dps regardless of skill level to know the above as its the most basic of starter info.
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Hmm well you definitely spend more time with it than me xD Though I've still not had issue with the ranged macro I made I also only use it sparingly. I also don't recommend autora but it's a metric to use against especially since some have not liked the idea it's even available. The plugin version uses static wait timers and ranged attacks have rapid shots that vary the time which ends up unaccounted for as well as whatever network delays you get. The one my lua has as an option to turn on actually knows when the real shot ends, but due to server communications work it's still slower than timing each shot manually. (Getting notice that your shot ended then starting a new shot is slower than sending a notice to the server to start the new shot when it's time to do so, it eliminated the lag of the server scheduling and sending a packet to you). I've never used equipset + equip macros, but it conjures up a scenario of having to hit multiple macros for one action which I don't like :( I think the wait 1 method works great for ranged attacks because you're doing the wait 1 during the time you can't do anything anyway (reload delay) but a lot worse for fastcast. Again you spend more time with vanilla macros than I do by far, but I often get asked how to macro RA and this has consistently worked for me even with all the attack speed I can muster and a very very low delay crossbow.
Lakshmi.Buukki said: » Wow its solved. I'm an Amateur and you're a Veteran. Much much much thanks for this.
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Quetzalcoatl.Mithlas said: » Is there a reason you don't recommend autora? How does it affect DPS? Just curious. Autora doesn't take into account insta-shots (snap/rapid) during preshot phase afaik, so you aren't shooting immediately after a previous shot as you would had you shot manually. Bismarck.Phaded said: » The irony I find in shouts (ambuscade mostly) is that the kind of player that would benefit from (that type of gear) the most would be a non-end game players. PUG shouts have just never made any sense. Most of the time its the player that's shouting that is the weak link and hence HAS to ask for 'veteran' players so they can be carried. Ambuscade has tiers, so I can understand why someone would want a well-geared veteran to do some "Intense" runs. As someone who regularly forms my own shout groups (and very very very very rarely loses, regardless of whether I tank, DD support, or melee), I can say the latter portion is not a good estimation "most of the time". Many people who do their own shout groups do so because they're either not around when others are doing them in a LS or static group, have unusual play time schedule, or would just prefer to do their event without having to wait for one to pop up. I have consistently formed PUG events of varying kinds, and I am not the weak link looking to be carried along. The {Veteran} criteria I use is for people to understand that there is some expectation of your abilities. I shouted for a {Veteran} {Healing Magic} GEO. When I got replies from several of them and asked if they were comfortable main healing, some of them declined. Its okay to have a standard and draw the line somewhere. It just shouldn't be so unreasonable that you're basically asking for 5+ players who are significantly better than you, and, as you pointed out, are being carried along. Quetzalcoatl.Mithlas said: » Is there a reason you don't recommend autora? How does it affect DPS? Just curious. I think it's much easier to see it yourself. Here is a video of someone using autoRA: YouTube Video Placeholder Here is a video of someone manually shoots everything with a default macro: YouTube Video Placeholder The jp video is the correct /ra speed or at least close, /ra has to be done way before ws animation finish, and right before last /ra animation finish. The video with autoRA only executes /ra after entire animation done and character enters idle, which lowers dps. When someone told me autoRA suck I actually didn't believe it, until I saw videos and noticed the massive /ra speed difference. Bismarck.Phaded said: » The above is also not a good gauge of player skill, I know plenty of players that parrot the above and copy-pasta ffxiah gearsets, but should you ask them to explain the math behind it they are completely lost. I'd actually even go as far as to say I would expect ANY dps regardless of skill level to know the above as its the most basic of starter info. I think he's differentiating between players who know how to find those numbers out vs players that just copy whatever someone else says. If something changes, new gear being released or different content, the first player will be able to immediately adapt their gearsets, refactor their Store TP and move on without any problems. The second player will screw around and have to be told what the new values / gearsets are.
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Valefor.Omnys said: » But there's also, how many pro points do you lose for using gearswap/addons in general (I use gearswap, no shame). That said, everyone's on PC now. When push comes to shove, what matters is that you can execute your role correctly. Maybe you get novelty points for doing that on vanilla so long as it doesn't hold you/your party back, but the notion that anybody should lose any sort of points, imaginary or otherwise, for using something like a macro engine (effective use of which is a skill in itself) in the modern environment strikes me as deeply flawed.
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The players that know how to find such values and come up with strategies to defeat new content are literally just a handful and are in a category well beyond what the general player base would consider 'veteran'.
I don't know how shouts are on other servers but outside of Ambuscade what shouts are using the 'veteran' requirement? (Please don't mention master trials at that is just a joke of a RNG dps race.) Leviathan.Andret said: » Amateur: "The pointy end is for stabbing, not holding right? Which is the pointy end anyways?" Novice: "Stab with sword, block with shield. I know!!!" Noob: "I know what I am doing!!!" *charge* Experienced: *stab* *swab gear* *block* "[Light] --- [Weapon Skill] >>> [Weapon Skill] in 3 [ping] ---" Veteran: "Back in my day, we used to call that Buttersheep!" Expert: "You need XX Store TP for X-Hit then XXXX Acc to cap hit rate" you forgot the filthy casual and weekend warrior groups Bismarck.Phaded said: » The players that know how to find such values and come up with strategies to defeat new content are literally just a handful and are in a category well beyond what the general player base would consider 'veteran'. Finding accuracy and Store TP is piss easy. It's a matter of /checkparam and knowing the Store Formula. https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Tactical_Points Take something like a Ragnarok, 431 delay is 122 base TP for each swing. 5-hit is 200 per swing so basic grade school math, 200/122 = 1.639, round up to 1.64 or 64% extra TP per swing, aka 64 Store TP. You can get more elaborate with WS return and such but that's the basic way to do it. Accuracy is just /checkparam vs content level's with a ballpark knowledge. The guys on the Apex Camp thread have already nailed down ballpark evasion numbers for various content levels. I knowledgeable player would know how and where to look those up. |
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