What Makes A {Veteran} Vs {Amateur} Player?

Seems to me that a good number of players don't know exactly what makes a "Veteran" player. Normally in shout groups, you'll see someone asking for "SMN {Veteran} PLD {Veteran}". I happen to shout fairly regularly for various groups, and I use the term often.

However, from time to time, when I push back and ask if they are a veteran at their job, sometimes they reply "define veteran". Some people don't really know what makes a veteran player vs an average player, and was wondering what the community's general consensus and benchmark for being considered "Veteran". Because while there is clearly an acceptable standard of what is expected of a player when they join an event, there are also (at times) an unrealistic benchmark that give players a bad vibe as to what they are expected to have before joining something (Ever see a shout for something like Leviathan VD or SR asking for a REMA BLU ?)

Here's my list of what I would and would not consider criteria for being a Veteran:

A {Veteran} {Job} must:

• Have to be able to follow a strategy. This may include skillchains, magic bursts, and other things.
• Have invested a good amount of time into the job. Simply being lvl99 and geared is not enough anymore.
• Understand when to use JAs/Spells and how they affect monsters/party. You cannot be a WAR and not understand why you need to merit Savagery (Warcry). Unacceptable.
• Must possess all WS/JAs and spells that are expected at any level of play, including seemingly useless ones, unless they are extremely impractical in nearly every scenario (This may be debatable depending on what job you play. WAR probably doesn't need to unlock Stardiver, for instance); i.e. COR should have every roll, no exceptions. You do need to buy spells like Frazzle 1 and Flurry 1, even if you have the lvl2 version on your RDM main.
• All Support jobs unlocked for your main. This includes /sch for mage, /sam, /drk, /run for DD, and /blu for tanks.
• Possess a DT50% build, or very very close to it. No exceptions, mage, tank, or melee.
• [If you're a DD] Possess the requisite amount of accuracy for the content. If you're a mage, you will need magic accuracy for the content.
• [If you're a DD] Have advanced job knowledge and monster mechanics. You cannot just spam CDC all day. You'll need to visit forums and websites to learn some things. You'll also need to know what you're fighting before we fight it. Do a small bit of research.
• [If you're a DD] Have "sets" for different situations, and the appropriate gear that augment special abilities, like Diffusion and Angon. This is very important as it adds some pretty potent boons from just having it equipped on activation. (It drives me crazy when I see 3~minute diffusion MG from BLUs)
• If you're a tank, you may need an REMA, or maybe not...at the very least a combination of good play, good gear, and great sets (including enmity, damage taken, healing, and occasional DD) to be worth inviting.
• If you're a mage, must have all skill levels unlocked/maxed.
Maxed Potency which is reasonably attainable through time and gear (for instance, 900 skill GEO, High lvl Bar spell WHM or max Curna set for WHM)
• [If on job that uses MP] Possess a FC set. It's no longer acceptable to take 4 full seconds to cast stoneskin.
• You need to bring meds, regardless of your job. This includes RR, Vile+1 if needed, silent oils if needed, remedy/holy water/panacea/echo drops at the very least. This is probably debatable, but it makes the difference sometimes.


A {Veteran} {Job} does not need:

• Master JP. Master is not required, but certainly helps your argument, as it means you've spent time on your job and you're more likely to understand it.
• a REMA, though it certainly doesn't hurt and may make you more attractive in content.
• HQ abjurations or the like. You could be an above average geared player and perform well. But gear does make a ton of a difference, so it doesn't hurt to have "good gear".
• To have cleared said content previously, but it helps to have some knowledge of the NM and its tricks.
• To be the best of the best, elitist by some people's terms.

Discuss how you would define a Veteran Player. I hope this thread can actually educate some people who may have been unfamiliar with what the term specifically meant, because I have noticed it has different meanings depending on who you ask. Its good to get the answer out in the open.

Amateur Player:

"Look at these new useful items I got that make me stronger!"


Veteran Player:

"Look at my new Lockstyle."

so true

What does this mean?

Probably meant DT?

Veteran is someone who beat the content whos being invited and can do it again. Amateur is someone who never did so probably will struggle following directions from people shouting, because none can perform well at first.

Also need to consider veteran and amateur leader. Obviously veteran leaders already did said content and won while amateurs not. Also, most likely veteran leaders will have the party core formed by people he trust while amateurs will start shouting with 1/6. Those guys most likely dont have many friends in ls, or people there dont care much to not join him. Good pugs dont actually relies much on stranger. Relying important roles to people you dont even know is a huge risk to failure.

I can tell you this. 3 yellow stars and afterglow most decidedly does NOT necessarily mean "Veteran".

That's pretty spot on.

I agree with parts of this but I appreciate the honesty. I think you can still be a veteran even if you've never particularly beaten a particular event. If someone is asking for a Veteran GEO to Omen, and he's never done it before, does this make him an amateur, even though he may have an idris, mastered job, and good sets and reputation? Its not an all-or-nothing type of deal, but I think there are some things that encourage players to lean towards inviting strangers. If you have two GEOs, one has beaten a content, the other has not. The one who hasn't particularly done the event-in-question is much better geared - which one is the veteran? It's not that simple sometimes, I don't think.

A veteran? Hell back in my day to get to Feiyn you had to walk from xarcabard tele crystal through beaucdine glacier

Back in my day we had to get our "merit parties" to fight dem damn birds called colibries in thickets.

Funny. I was part of a linkshell way back where, in order to join the LS, you actually had to walk from Jeuno to Attowha Chasm with a leader following you. Then, you had to be able to climb that mountain, unassisted, with no speed tools or hax in under a certain time period.

Omg I hated that quest. Took like 5 hours helping people lll

Who the hell would put up with that to enter a ls lol.

20 miles uphill in the snow during a double ice blizzard with a horde of Gigas mobs on your trail.

Lol

Exactly and help the dumbass who forgot sneaks and prisms!

The more pro (Veteran) a person thinks they are, the more noob (Amateur) they tend to be.

The real pros are noticed for it.

Vets figure out where the problem is, Amateurs only insist they aren't the problem. (If all/most groups you're in suck, look at the common denominator).

Vets will come on an appropriate job for the task rather than merely what's fun today.

Amateurs can only look at personal dps, stats, etc.

looooooool. Parradamo Tor. Oh the memories.

Facts. It was forged into me to come a job needed thanks to the hnmls I was in. BUT everyone has experienced this,...the one guy/girl who always argued about being on bars and they wanted to play DD job. Yet they were the only bard with Ghorn which the linkshell helped fund lol

So many times I just wish I could jump down never do it again lol

It was supposed to be some LS aptitude test to see how game-competent you were or something. Yes, very annoying though.

Our linkshell was you had to give 1 mil
Entry fee. But we sold wins KCS, gear so I made like 30mil back within a week or 2

Then I discovered crafting,..

I only ever play what's fun today, complain a lot when people make me XYZ jobs, and I love personal dps and stats, I guess I can never be a Vet ;;

Yeah, real veterans just sandbag all day.

It is what it is. We all want to play the jobs we enjoy, but the fact of the matter is you just can't beat Schah with an alliance full of melee WHM's no matter how hard we'd like that to transpire.

At the end of the day, we have to come on the jobs needed to beat whatever it is we're fighting at the time.

It's a little selfish to depend on others to (edit: always/frequently) adapt to the job you want to play, especially if you're the kind of person that only plays one job or one type of job (unless it's only healer, then you're pretty much safe).

Sometimes, even having a job besides GEO is nice.