Why Do You Think Blue Mage SHOULD Be Nerfed?

Because Subduction!

I kid. I don't think BLU is the top DD, it's certainly not the top healer, and it's not always the top aoe'er.

It's -versatile- and god I love that. Need a DD who can self SC (besides Chain Affinity)? I can probably do that consistently (unless acc requirements are insane).

Need a survivable DD? I can do that as well.

Need someone to handle crowd control? I'll take care of it.

Need something tankable to take adds out? I got this.

Super duper critical to note that I can't do all of these things at once, since non-blu's seem to think that it can. Switching modes usually requires a 1m cd on spells. A tremendous amount of time when it's during a fight. In fairness, newly-set traits kick in automatically.

And my inventory appreciates that one job can handle these things, with appropriate spells.

I don't know why people are so offended at the idea of players liking versatility. I will never build an Idris because I don't like GEO and don't want to mule my other gear, but I love that when I'm on my NQ geo, I can provide the versatility of support my group needs. I'm sure that people who build idrises do so for this reason.

I didn't go blu to gnole last month because it was easy. I went because Ambuscade is a stupid event with a wonderful point system and that was the fastest way friends and I could get through it. I'll just as readily get off BLU and get on one of my other jobs to get the task done. This month, thank frog, PLD is the fastest way I can help my friends through it.

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Can confirm Llew's point. My first frogs were not pleasant. I might have gotten to too safe of a distance and basically wasn't generating enmity. I stay between 20 and 25 as PLD/DRK.

Run in with crusade and phalanx. Sentinel, Rampart, Flash, Stun, run off.

I run just a little past the mob so the blu can Subduction without eating that first -ga. TBH, even if he eats it, don't care about his health. Either the melee aren't taking damage or everyone's dead.

While waiting on the recast on that first flash/stun, I pop Souleater and Last Resort because it's basically something to do. 50+ runs, never lost hate past the first 2. Can kite the rest of the fight against top-not DD with flash/stun, but you will eat some nukes during chainspell so healing yourself is free enmity.

For me, getting close enough to provoke is too risky for hammer since the server's measurement of distance is never quite the same as the client's is either/both of you are moving.

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@ "Not sure if Dia works": I think it's just geo debuffs that don't work. I don't think there's a reason to assume other debuffs don't work especially since even mobs immune to magic have always said when they resist dia.

I mostly agree with 2nd part of your post but I'd still question this part. After seeing someone just opened the Pandora's box on the OF about BLU balance discussion, I decided to dig on the forum to look for evidences that supports there's design issues when it comes to BLU.

This is first time when NA community posted melee Albuman video clear:

http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/49448/riotforcesixspeedyjims-streaming-thread/2/

And this is event organizer's comment about the strat:


This month's intense ambu VD....as mentioned in previous pages that BLU is still the more ideal choice than RDM:

http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/49689/october-2016-version-update/10/

Very old shedu strat when the NM was just out and some of the earliest clears post on the forum:

http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/37086/endeavoring-to-awaken-a-guide-to-rune-fencer/79/

Organizer's comment:


Last month's intense ambu VD:
http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/48624/ambuscade-findings/15/

Organizer's comment with setup:

As you can see, a lot of times when the community start sharing strats when a content was just out, and experiment with them BLU is often the first pick as melee job for several reasons(and those reason can't be found on many other melee), not WAR DRK MNK SAM DRG.

If BLU doesn't have some design mechanics that should be adjusted, how come WAR DRK MNK SAM DRG are often missing in early strats shared in the NA community?

Just to be fair, I've read alot of successful strat involved NIN, DNC, WAR and THF and their mechanics too. So it's not like I pretend other jobs don't exist. But if we look at the big picture, I feel strats involved with BLU often come out a little bit more often than strats involve other melee such as DRK, MNK or SAM(those 3 jobs are being mentioned in early strat as melee a lot less often than others).


There are no rules that design adjustment should or should not happen. For example if I remember correctly fend/acument was nerfed a while ago. Did we abuse those spells? I don't think so.

Anyways, this subject has been going on for like.....almost an year? >.> Some ppl will continue to think there's design issue while some of the most vocal player in the community that plays BLU will keep attacking anyone with different opinion anyways. Like I said before, if BLU has same lv of output as RDM no one would say a thing.

No false blus 116mp aoes + additional effect petrify terror stun flash doing mabey 9-11k dmg or pop burst affinity crank that dmg up another 1-2k that doesnt scale with many mobs vs a blms 300-390mp Ja spell that does hits what 14k on a single mob but goes way down to 10 8 6 4k once you add mobs is HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE dont get me started on geos Ra3s costing 330-400 mp doing mabey 9k to a single target and scaling once you add mobs. You could spam subduction and still beat out a blm. Not to mention having 6-13 shadows cray aquaveil barrier tusk coccoon self mab 20 boosts + fantod. Ill mention Bsts are pretty good AoEers as well but i dont know what numbers they hit rly with grasshopper spam.

That Shedu strategy was from before some major balance adjustments and while BLU is used when meleeing Albumen, it isn't preferred on the other HELMs.

Being highly popular doesn't mean it's overpowered.

BLU should be buffed instead so it can actually catch up to DNC in parses

You mean evasion nerf?

You know, the odd bit here to me is that I've taken hate several times from 40+yalms in this months Ambuscade. While I was testing the mob's behavior, just using a maneuver occasionally would give me hate from 40 yalms away. As far as I know it doesn't have any hate resets. It would only happen if Magic Hammer was locked in though, so I dunno. I'm pretty sure I have also seen other people take hate from over 30 yalms, usually mages.

https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Category:Ambuscade#A_Word_On_Enmity

The wording here doesn't mention distance, but you spawn over 30 yalms away from the target iirc, so those actions must be generating enmity, no? I suppose it will take some ACTUAL research to figure out.

In the meantime though, A Blue Mage can can Diffusion Exuviation while wearing a good enmity set(Mine has +89 enmity) and generate 7250 VE AND CE. So your combined enmity is 14500 immediately after the spell. Speaking of, BLU has a metric shitton of solid self buffs that generate decent CE and VE. Exuviation is the best though. I don't see why you'd need an actual tank at that point. If you solve the issue of both tank and gravity on one shot, you have five free slots the throw whatever in. Seems worthwhile if it's doable for a group.

They weren't nerfed, the values were corrected. SE posted values for Geomancy on the OF, and someone pointed out that Fend/Acumen was actually higher than what they posted, so SE corrected the spells to what they were actually supposed to be. That isn't a nerf, it's a bug fix. Feels like one though.

They are quite versatile in general... maybe they need a general nerf to overall power to account for this, maybe not, but there is ONE thing I can say for certain:

They should not be able to solo self cap their magic haste.

Alright, but BLM has better magic accuracy (as it should), the gain from spells naturally magic bursting, along with the m.acc gain from magic bursting. BLM also has the grandeur that is AF coat meaning aja's only have to do 40k~ damage to be absolutely free in content where they can use them. BLM has distance from the mob to their benefit, and probably lesser enmity generated than blu nuking(because BLMs generate amazingly little enmity).

And you're wrong about subduction. I have a pretty great mab-oriented set and a pretty great macc-oriented set and subduction sees a fair amount of resist against even Ru'Aun t2 (bosses). I've tried. Didn't use focus because the BLMs didn't need it and it's silly to use to prop up an argument.

My main response to all of this is: "On behalf of good BLU's, We're sorry for helping you win.". Also sorry about GEO. And PLD, and RUN. I'm really sorry that the jobs I find fun, and geo, make the task easier for everyone.

Both the evasion nerf and the pDIF changes.

I barely care about this, and only because Ulmia is really shitty about Marches sometimes.

For both cases like that (solo with and without Trusts) and even in a group, it devalues support jobs that provide haste and makes BLU a stronger option due to the fact they do not need it. This alone makes them a more versatile choice for a group composition, and even past that, stronger due to being able to take different buffs.

It is a dominant outlier among the DD jobs; providing themselves 30% was a strange buff but an interesting niche, but being able to cap it is just too much.

Yes im well aware blus are meh magic bursters and you should never rly bring one for magic bursting unless there just there to tank or make SCs but this was from a AoE perspective only i apologize if i didnt make that clear earlier. I find blu isnt that strapped for macc either when you can dw2 colada with decent int macc mab augs, set Tcrush for another 35 macc your hardly lagging behind.

Id imagine RUN is the best sub for this role? Flash, some enmity JAs, defensive runes and JT for frog nukes. Gonna give a try.

IMO popularity may not be indication of balance issue 100% of time, but it is evidence that such issue may exists.

Otherwise we will just have 2 group of people presenting their OPINION about whether the job needs adjustment or not. With both sides never accept the opinion of another side.

How else are you going to have this BLU balance discussion then? So far it's been people presenting opinions and there are zero consensus.

I would still /PLD (or /BLM so that I could continue being the gravity guy).

If you aren't subbing BLM to ALSO be the gravity person, I'm not sure what the point is. In that instance you're just trading BLU for PLD or RUN, and those two jobs do the same thing you would be doing, but better. If you can't get either of the other two...I guess? The main draw though is filling two spots with one job.

That said, nothing really beats the enmity+ from Sentinel on /pld for a short fight like this.

Quick shitty math tells me that /pld with Sentinel up, that diffusion+exuviation trick would give you 21580 combined enmity. It's pretty gud.

I don't think it devalues support jobs (well, support job) but does skew the balance away from other melee (in many people's mindset. A blu can keep us hasted (if there's no dispel/buff steal)! So the geo can fury/frailty/entrust-[precision/dex/str/something]. Corsair has preferable options to Blitzer's Roll, especially since it's -attack speed and not haste.


I don't know nearly anything about PUP so can't really say and though I don't know you, I know you take pet jobs very serious. Maybe the decay on pet was too much or there's special rules to pet range in ambu (I doubt it).

Maybe I'm wrong, I can only go by my experience and found the ideal solution for me was to stay in 20-25y.

here's an odd thought: how about buffing the straight damage jobs to be more competitive? improve the calculations of strong WS on the straight damage jobs, give Hastega 1/2 to other mages (who will still be too damned lazy to cast it once every 3-5 min), and maybe make Grips not suck balls (and toss Monk some "wraps" that function similar to Grips such that they can gain the benefit of dual wielding jobs). make Ninjutsu not suck. etc. I know that this would actually require things like "work", "effort", and "resources" on the part of the dev team, and thus will not happen, but it seems the most sound thing to me....

I haven't actually try the gravity role so Im unsure if blm is must have SJ for this role. Guess it's probably better to sub blm then, unless it's proven that gravity can land without es.

Take away blus Job Trait 2 upgrade and Setable triple attack would be fair. Thats a loss of 10dualwield to be made up in gear and less tripleattack slightly less acc 5 fastcast 2crit dmg 4 skillchain bonus 5 less stp. Or buff other jobs further.

JP Wiki has Elemental Seal listed as ~256 magic accuracy. Difficult to replace that.

Let's remove BLU from the game.

Can I get an amen for Haste Samaba II? Eh? eh? :D I'll take it!

I landed on rdm with swords out, it is possible, just needed gain-int for it.

You should get shot instead

I've seen it landed on BLU without ES but can take multiple tries. If it breaks early, it will take multiple tries again.

Easier, in just my opinion, to ES and be done with it.

I haven't tanked this on RUN but have on PLD. Don't need a healer so the BLU also covers warps for KI farming since you should be going faster than warp rings.

The only one that might need Shell is the PLD and that's if any of your swaps take you out of MDT hardcap which is almost hard for PLD to do.

The BLU can diffusion+mighty guard and the geo/cor/whatever can haste or the blu can diffusion+haste II (same amount of total haste) and the geo can /blm.

Or if you clear frogs at Rei, the geo can /whm.

In the kite strat, if melee are taking damage, it's probably a wipe so prot/shellra aren't even worth the effort if you're not using a WHM.