Random Politics & Religion #09

Where are you getting this from?

Only if you listen to commentary of what he said, and not what he actually says.

Honest question: Have you actually listened to one of his speeches at one of his rallies? Or just the commentary highlights of select passages that aren't even in complete sentences?

So the right wing media totally ignored the story about a video existing that shows millions in cash going to terrorist groups on Hillary's orders?

Screenshot - People on this forum openly calling for genocide and the death of millions of innocent, non-combatants. Glad to see FFXIAH Mods are acting responsibly. Suspending my brother for stating in a completly non-violent matter his personal beliefs are against homosexuality, without inciting any form of violence and clearly stating its his own belief he doesn't enforce on others.
That statement is classed as hate-speech when it is actually his human right to disagree or agree with whatever he sees fit.

Yet this site's mods turn a blind eye to someone openly calling for genocide and crimes against humanity.

Imagine if a middle eastern, African, Russian, South American or Asian had said "unless we nuke [insert any country] (please nuke the [insert country name]."

The screenshot isn't for the mods btw.

I want to see a mod regulate this drivel instead of posting +1's.
Rooks I'm looking at you. And if you think I don't have any recourse outside of this site, guess again.

Obama's orders.

I can see the confusion, their ideologies are so much alike you can certainly confuse the two. Never mind their gender differences or their skin pigmentation...

Did you report it?

I have, he's awful


It's only the US that can't seem to see it



I find Hillary awful too though

I read several detailed analyses of ISIS's theological philosophy some time ago. But I can't find the exact one now.

As I recall it used conversations with both anti and pro ISIS clerics and adherents.

This is as close as I can find currently:

From What ISIS Really Wants
The Atlantic, March 2015

OK. So same thing, both sides. Media reports 3rd party stories that are against their side. So why do you freak out when they say unsubstantiated things about republicans but not democrats?

Well, at least we can rely on the HuffPost to have no journalistic integrity.

"Donald Trump Suggests Shooting Hillary Clinton, Her Supreme Court Picks, Or Both"

I can see what you're saying. Just wanted to point out that the Caliph/Khalifa (successor) isn't an Islamic religious construct, technically speaking. So it doesn't have any criteria for legitimacy in doctrine or religious tradition.

While Muslims overwhelmingly do wish for a governance by Khilfa (caliphate) they do know enough of the basics to recognize that ISIS isn't it.

What is actual Islamic Doctrine and tradition is that one must follow the law of the land so long as it does not oppress his ability to practice his religion, personally. That means that European Muslims can't enforce their opinions on others. As long as they can pray, read the Quran, Fast, travel to Mecca for pilgrimage, give Zakah (annual charity) and raise their children with the Islamic values and beliefs, they're fine. I'm not aware of a single European or Western country that prevents anyone from practicing their beliefs so long as they dont infringe upon others. So basically, there is not legitimate reason for any Muslim living in the western hemisphere to want a Caliphate.

Its common knowledge that if you're a muslim the state you live in is oppressive and persecutes you, or you can't reconcile yourself with their laws, that you should move elsewhere. The only Jihads allowed while residing in other countries are the same Jihads allowed while living an Islamic country; Jihad El Nafs (perserving and striving against one's own weakness and unlawful desires) and Da3wa, which isnt really jihad, but means to call others to Islam. That "calling" process in itself has strict methodology and criteria. Violence, inciting hate, insults, mockery of others or their beliefs are all big no-nos.

Anyways just wanted to check.

You might want to tell that to the Muslim Association of Canada or whatever they changed their name to, calling for a caliphate in Canada.

Going to need a citation. I don't have much to go on to research it.

Here's a few with a quick glance: The first one is as recent as May 2016, but there is word of more of these gatherings and groups rising up in Ontario in particular:

http://www.niagarafallsreview.ca/2016/05/20/pro-caliphate-group-gathers-in-mississauga

http://www.therebel.media/homegrown_jihad_canadian_imam_calling_for_establishment_of_the_caliphate

Yeah I thought you might be talking about Mazin Abd AlAdhim and Hizb El Tahreer.

Thanks for posting the links - i'm reading through them now. But the main caption says he's calling for an Islamic Caliphate, not for one in Canada. Hizb El Tahreer have been calling for this for decades. Caliphate isn't ISIS, it isn't Iran, it isn't Saudi Arabia, it actually isn't anything any of us have ever seen in our lifetimes.

BRB, going to continue reading the links now.

So first one:
http://www.therebel.media/homegrown_jihad_canadian_imam_calling_for_establishment_of_the_caliphate

That's mainstream Islam. All Muslims will want/ask for the same thing pretty much. Exceptions being the Gulf Countries because our rulers are just and from us (tribal history, family ties).
But the rest of the Muslim world which represents the other 80% all believe everything this man has said.


That's not something controversial. If the people want to be ruled by Islamic law, whats the problem?

There isn't a single Muslim who's role model isn't the prophet Muhammad. That shouldn't surprise anyone. I wouldn't be surprised if a devote Christian told me his role model was Jesus.

In fact, if one claims to be Muslim and sees the Prophet Mohamed as anything other than the perfect human being, a savior of mankind and a mercy to all generations and people, he's pretty much saying he isn't Muslim. The Quran says to follow God AND his Prophet. Its a fundamental core of Islam that cannot be separated from the religion itself. Just like you can't have Jesus taken out of Christianity and still called it Christianity.


Having said that, this is where I disagree with him:

I'm not aware of anywhere in my religion where I have to establish a caliphate. I don't know of any sayings of the prophet or verses in the Quran where establishing a caliphate is mandatory upon me or any other Muslim. If one comes to manifest itself and its really islamic, sure. I don't think anyone would have any qualms with that, especially the west. But being mandatory to establish it on earth? nah.. I don't think so at this present time.
God made things mandatory to me such as daily prayers, fasting, charity, abstaining from drinking, eating swine, pre-marital sexual intercourse, homosexuality, oppression and many more things... caliphate isn't one of them. This is a classic example of politicizing religion for personal beliefs.

However, that doesn't mean I don't agree with him that Islam needs a unifying force at the moment, that speaks on its behalf and protects its practitioners.

Agreed maldini, but ISIS is not mainstream Muslim. For that mater they aren't even mainstream wahhabism.

Nor is their theology mainstream anything.

My viewpoint is you can fight what you do not understand, but you cannot defeat what you do not understand. Example: we fought and defeated Germany. We have yet to defeat fascism.

And that's a BIG part of my beef with our Republicans on maters ISIS. They, like ISIS, want to cast this as a religious crusade. They do not wish to understand. Not while Islamophobia draws votes.

G. W. frickingBush even used the crusade word before his handlers slapped him down.

AS I mentioned, he wanted to build a physical location for it. There are more articles with him, and others (non-violent groups, mind you), that have called for the establishment of a caliphate in Canada.

Technically we have the land for something like that, but it's not land we can simply provide or give away to any religious group, or for any religious reasoning. He isn't the only one calling for it either.

Several years ago, there were several articles in the Calgary Sun, which have been difficult to find, because of pay walls and such, but there was an elderly Muslim gentleman and a group of... "moderate fanatics", or non-violent fanatics, fringe elements, etc. whatever you wanna call them, who wanted to start a caliphate in Calgary. However, they were also some of the first, and Muslims in the city to go public with their denouncement of the violence posed by extremists during the aftermath of 9/11, and again after ISIS began taking over land and such in great numbers.

Secondly, I also agree that Islam also needs a unifying force, or at least a force of unified stability.

We all do Blood.

I'm sure that will be difficult when Hillary bans guns though !

There is 100% full proof way to defeat ISIS; pull the rug from underneath them. To do that, this has to happen in order or priority:

1. Palestinian state with 1967 borders
2. return gollan heights to Syria
3. Kurds given their own state
4. Truce and treaty between Saudi Arabia and Iran
- Iran to exit from the Iraqi political scene
- Iran to end its official mandate of expansion and defeating Sunni Islam
- Saudi Arabia to establish normalized economical relationship with Iran
5. Normalized ties and relationship with Israel
6. Bashar Al Assad to exit power, Russia given guarantees of continued access to warm water ports. New constitution written.
7. Independent state of Kashmir created. India and Pakstiant told to deal with it.

Boom! no more problems in the middle east. The Houthis in Yemen surrender because they don't have any more support from Iran.
The next decade is spent erasing the secterian division created by Iran after 2003.

By 2027 we could all be singing the Cheers theme together. You drinking your beer and me drinking some gingerale. On the TV we see Saudi Arabia playing against Israel in a football friendly, followed by a boxing match between a palestinian and mike tyson's illegitimate son.

Why can't we have this? seriously... its not hard. Just need to stop the damn rhetoric and calling the other side 'great satan'

+1'd because Cheers.

Oh it gets worse! Currnet HuffPo banner headline:

TRUMP SHOCK: ASSASSINATE CLINTON?
I would remind you that Trump is far from the first Republican to call for "second amendment solutions."

Well the current Islamic intellectuals and scholars are making great gains in the fight for people's hearts and minds. They need a bigger microphone. And less Bill Mahers, Sam Harris, David Woods trying to prove that there is something fundamentally wrong with Islam as a theology. Circumstance and history of conflict are to blame.

But then again, all those scholars and intellectuals are persecuted by the regimes because they call for free thought, equality, an end to many old political defacto regimes that are in place because of western support.

So catch 22 really.

Really for context he said that she will appoint Supreme Court justices that will seek to limit the 2nd amendment. To say that is an assassinate attempt is a bit much don't you think ?

maldini, I agree with most of what you say save for the "its not hard" bit.

And ginger beer is non alcoholic and way better than ginger ale.

I know nothing of David Woods, but from everything I've seen of Bill Maher, he fervently believes that there is something inherently wrong in every single religion and theology as a whole, and takes some pretty good potshots at the most controversial ones as they come up in recent stories.

He's received death threats for pointing out large inconsistencies in Christianity and Catholicism on numerous occasions.

Context: