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Random Politics & Religion #07
Bahamut.Ravael
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13640
By Bahamut.Ravael 2016-06-20 14:17:19
troubled Democrat who glorifies groups like ISIS and Al Qaeda go and shoot up a gay night club
I had forgotten how twisted your world view is.
Facts are a twisted world view to you? That explains a lot.
Lakshmi.Flavin
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 18466
By Lakshmi.Flavin 2016-06-20 14:18:11
You still haven't answered any of the questions I've asked you though... Who does it affect psychologically as you said and how will it win us the war if you use this description?
Would it "win us the war"? I dunno, I'm not psychic.
But labeling and identifying an enemy has sociological effects, as can often be seen in war propaganda. By skirting away from terms like "Islamic extremist", it's basically creating a psychological opening for other types of projection.
That's why you can have a troubled Democrat who glorifies groups like ISIS and Al Qaeda go and shoot up a gay night club, but the real enemy here is Republicans, because something something clip sizes something something guns. But isn't that the argument? That until the president himself declares its Islamic extremism we can't win the war? I mean... People have already declared it Islamic extremism and millions of people call it that but why are we so hung up on making the president refer to it as that? Don't you think maybe he's weighed the pros and cons and made a logical decision not to? I think most people who refer to it as such don't even know what Islam is...
You're arguing that because we don't call it Islamic extremism then we make republicans the enemies over gun control because you know we haven't been arguing over gun control for a long time anyways... Was it the same with sandy hook? Or all the other mass shootings that spark the same debate that has nothing to do with Isis or Islamic extremism?
so if Dems are making pubs out to be the enemy for this then why do I hear pubs making sure they call this guy gay and democrat every time it comes up? Are you trying to promote unity over making sure that's brought up? Or what's the purpose? You're not referring to him as an Islamic extremist but a gay democrat...
You're whole argument is baseless... You can call me whatever you want and people are still going to do or feel whatever they want... The victims of using such speech usually show when people like trump want to ban all Muslims because you know it could be any one of them!!! You talk about psychological affects here like its a defense for republicans and taking blame over something instead of it actually being something helpful... You don't seem to take anything into account other than yourself and those that agree with you...
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Bahamut.Ravael
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13640
By Bahamut.Ravael 2016-06-20 14:18:54
because something something clip sizes something something guns I mean, 30 rounds is objectively more likely to kill someone than 0-29 rounds.
Yes, but that is completely missing the point of my post. I realize tangents may lead to more comfortable ground, but they don't help when I know what you're doing.
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Bahamut.Ravael
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13640
By Bahamut.Ravael 2016-06-20 14:25:32
But labeling and identifying an enemy has sociological effects, as can often be seen in war propaganda.
Seems like it worked out nicely for jews.
So you acknowledge my point. Kudos.
I'm all for calling a spade a spade. I think the president knows exactly why he's choosing his words so carefully, and I think it has to do with prioritizing American political expediency over all else. He knows he can manipulate the narrative, and he does it every single time a tragedy occurs.
Ragnarok.Nausi
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6709
By Ragnarok.Nausi 2016-06-20 14:27:51
How tough would it have been to kill nazis if we purposefully never knew who they were?
Lakshmi.Flavin
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 18466
By Lakshmi.Flavin 2016-06-20 14:29:01
How tough would it have been to kill nazis if we purposefully never knew who they were? Are you being serious with this comment? Lol...
Ragnarok.Raenil
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
By Ragnarok.Raenil 2016-06-20 14:30:51
Nazi wasn't a quick was of pointing out people who were genocidal *** until after the world learned German Nazi's were genocidal ***.
Ragnarok.Raenil
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
By Ragnarok.Raenil 2016-06-20 14:31:15
way*
GDI Rooks.
Lakshmi.Flavin
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 18466
By Lakshmi.Flavin 2016-06-20 14:32:05
But labeling and identifying an enemy has sociological effects, as can often be seen in war propaganda.
Seems like it worked out nicely for jews.
So you acknowledge my point. Kudos.
I'm all for calling a spade a spade. I think the president knows exactly why he's choosing his words so carefully, and I think it has to do with prioritizing American political expediency over all else. He knows he can manipulate the narrative, and he does it every single time a tragedy occurs. Idk... Seems to be more like you're trying to make this out to be a blame Islam thing to make an excuse for the ongoing gun debate we've had in America for quite a long time now... So who's prioritizing politics? Who's making sure they point out the shooter was a registered democrat every time it's brought up? I mean I don't see you calling him an Islamic extremist when you talk about it... Just a democrat... Lol... Then you accuse others of making it political... Just wow...
Bismarck.Ihina
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3187
By Bismarck.Ihina 2016-06-20 14:32:51
troubled Democrat who glorifies groups like ISIS and Al Qaeda go and shoot up a gay night club
I had forgotten how twisted your world view is.
Facts are a twisted world view to you? That explains a lot.
There's 'facts' and then there's being intellectually honest, which you've never been.
I haven't heard about the man being a democrat, but if it is true, it's about as fair as a woman saying, "troubled men who glorifies groups like ISIS and Al Qaeda go and shoot up a gay night club".
Bahamut.Ravael
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13640
By Bahamut.Ravael 2016-06-20 14:38:28
There's 'facts' and then there's being intellectually honest, which you've never been.
Keep it up. I want to see if insulting me is the hill you're willing to die on.
Idk... Seems to be more like you're trying to make this out to be a blame Islam thing to make an excuse for the ongoing gun debate we've had in America for quite a long time now... So who's prioritizing politics? Who's making sure they point out the shooter was a registered democrat every time it's brought up? I mean I don't see you calling him an Islamic extremist when you talk about it... Just a democrat... Lol... Then you accuse others of making it political... Just wow...
It was an example of how the narrative is being twisted.
Is it "Miss the Point Day"?
Bahamut.Ravael
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13640
By Bahamut.Ravael 2016-06-20 14:41:14
Propaganda is efficient, but not in a positive way. Labelling people dehumanise them and that's how you end up with mindless violence.
Labels: terrible unless they're being used against the competition, apparently.
Cerberus.Pleebo
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2016-06-20 14:41:21
I'm all for calling a spade a spade. I think the president knows exactly why he's choosing his words so carefully, and I think it has to do with prioritizing American political expediency over all else. He knows he can manipulate the narrative, and he does it every single time a tragedy occurs. That's some grade A projection. The only time the semantics gets whipped out is to point empty criticism at the president. Nothing more than political distraction.
Asura.Saevel
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9933
By Asura.Saevel 2016-06-20 14:42:03
Is it "Miss the Point Day"?
It's on purpose, they know what you are saying but want to distract and draw you away from your initial point and then bait you into saying something they can either report you on or proudly claim "gotch!". Basically they trolling you, ignore them and move on.
Bahamut.Ravael
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13640
By Bahamut.Ravael 2016-06-20 14:50:21
Propaganda is efficient, but not in a positive way. Labelling people dehumanise them and that's how you end up with mindless violence.
Labels: terrible unless they're being used against the competition, apparently.
The concept isn't so hard to grasp ....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demonizing_the_enemy
Quote: The strategy of demonization of the enemy unavoidably leads to vicious cycle of atrocities, which was elaborated by many authors including Carl von Clausewitz.[9] Demonization of the enemy makes diplomatic solution impossible and inevitably leads into the war or worsening of relations.[10] Depicting the enemy as particularly evil inspire feelings that make killings more easy.[11]
The portraying one's enemy as demonic has bad consequence in treating the whole population or political apparatus associated with some enemy group or leader as equally demonic. Also it results with tendency to reduce more complex motives to simple promotion of pure evil
The president has no problem labeling political opponents with blanket terms that demonize them. If he were some saint that was always above the label treatment, then we wouldn't be having this discussion.
I'll make sure to redirect your words if you ever throw around terms like "bigot", though.
Bismarck.Ihina
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3187
By Bismarck.Ihina 2016-06-20 14:50:39
Keep it up. I want to see if insulting me is the hill you're willing to die on.
In other words, you're hoping a mod comes and saves you from me.
It's not as scathing as you hope it is.
I'll go ahead and reiterate what I said either. The problem with you is that you pride yourself on being blunt and straight forward, and you confuse that with being an objective thinker. You're not aware that you view everything through your own political lens, like the rest of us. That's why you feel so bold and confident about calling the shooter, who took 49 lives just a week ago, a democrat. Pretty sure even Trump can't get away with that one, and he gets away with most everything.
Ragnarok.Raenil
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
By Ragnarok.Raenil 2016-06-20 14:52:26
Propaganda is efficient, but not in a positive way. Labelling people dehumanise them and that's how you end up with mindless violence.
Labels: terrible unless they're being used against the competition, apparently. Because the people assaulting Muslims in the United States actually give a ***whether they're extremists or not.
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Cerberus.Pleebo
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2016-06-20 14:54:25
The concept isn't so hard to grasp .... It's really not unless you can't acknowledge your own biases. It's been explained over and over how "radical Islam" draws an unclear distinction between extremists and non-extremists and plays into the propaganda war that the west is at war with Islam. It's let's of an issue for us here because we don't view the term as being so general, but our perception isn't really the issue.
Ragnarok.Hevans
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15273
By Ragnarok.Hevans 2016-06-20 14:59:08
so, isn't there a lot of info at this point suggesting this guy had no real connection to any terror group and did this more because of his huge repression of his homosexuality? they found no real info suggestion his was hyper religious and his mental profile fits with it. it seems more like he used the whole, "I <3 ISIS!", to help cover so people wouldn't find out his love of man butt.
that is an important distinction to make, because his repression is part of the bigotry that runs rampant and prevents people like him from being able to accept himself.
Odin.Slore
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1350
By Odin.Slore 2016-06-20 14:59:25
troubled Democrat who glorifies groups like ISIS and Al Qaeda go and shoot up a gay night club
I had forgotten how twisted your world view is.
Democrat: check
glorified ISIS: check
shot up gay nightclub: check
I don't really see a twisted view here, looks like facts to me.
Bahamut.Ravael
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13640
By Bahamut.Ravael 2016-06-20 14:59:36
That's why you feel so bold and confident about calling the shooter, who took 49 lives just a week ago, a democrat. Pretty sure even Trump can't get away with that one, and he gets away with most everything.
He was a registered Democrat. I didn't make that up. And I only even said that because it was part of a point I was making about how the narrative is being manipulated and projected onto a completely unrelated group.
Man. I'm used to seeing people on here playing defense, but this is getting ridiculous.
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Ragnarok.Raenil
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
By Ragnarok.Raenil 2016-06-20 15:05:37
Proof, please. I've been hearing a lot of contradicting stuff to this statement recently.
Cerberus.Pleebo
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2016-06-20 15:06:51
The shooter's also been confirmed as a carbon-based life form. Which is about as crucial and relevant to the discussion as him being a Democrat.
Bahamut.Ravael
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13640
By Bahamut.Ravael 2016-06-20 15:09:37
Proof, please. I've been hearing a lot of contradicting stuff to this statement recently.
Well, at this point it's harder to say he didn't glorify ISIS than it is to say he did. He certainly glorified them in speech on various occasions, but his actual motives remain unclear.
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By fonewear 2016-06-20 15:10:05
I think we should ban the word ISIS cause it triggers bad memories for me.
Bahamut.Ravael
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13640
By Bahamut.Ravael 2016-06-20 15:11:08
The shooter's also been confirmed as a carbon-based life form. Which is about as crucial and relevant to the discussion as him being a Democrat.
Confirmed. "Miss the Point Day" is now on my calendar. I feel sorry for my daughter sharing her birthday with it, but at least I'll have more of a heads up next year.
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Ragnarok.Raenil
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
By Ragnarok.Raenil 2016-06-20 15:11:46
I dunno. When someones parents says "My son was a raging homophobe with intense reactions of unreasonable amounts of anger at gay people showing affection to each other."
I think the motives behind his actions are pretty blatant.
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