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Driverless Cars, Good Idea, Horrible Idea?
By Altimaomega 2015-12-27 22:35:54
Asura.Floppyseconds said: »There is no 100% driver Untrue. Sure, people screw up. Accidents happen. However, many accident free, perfect drivers exist. Too say otherwise is either ignorance or trolling.
Asura.Floppyseconds said: »I think you are asking for a 100% answer again Altima. I've never stopped.. They cannot put an autonomous car on the road. When, not if, it kills someone, lawsuits will rightfully start flying.
Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-12-27 23:44:46
I'm kind of torn on the whole thing. If the driverless cars are shown to be statistically superior in terms of accident prevention, it wouldn't make much sense to oppose it. Additionally, if the programmers are approaching this correctly and utilize things like Bayesian artificial intelligence, the programs would actually get "smarter" the more they're used, driving the accident rates down even further and perhaps even making driverless cars safer by several orders of magnitude.
On the other hand, the biggest problem with this technology is, well, people. Trying to program this in a bubble is difficult but, as Altima said, holy crap will there be lawsuits whenever anything goes wrong in the real world. Security will also be an issue, as there will always be jackwads trying to hack your car or finding ways to exploit the systems. It's a huge risk for investors.
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By Altimaomega 2015-12-28 00:05:03
It's a huge risk for everyone. For what? So you can nap while "driving"..
If the driverless cars are shown to be statistically superior in terms of accident prevention, it wouldn't make much sense to oppose it. When that day comes i'll change my tune, but it is a long way off.
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By Bahamut.Kara 2015-12-28 00:05:17
Car companies have already had issues with malfunctioning cars that have maimed and killed people through no fault of the driver.
Those car companies still exist.
Security is -and always will be- an ongoing issue in every industry that utilizes any type of technology. Airlines, pacemaker companies, credit card companies, and garage door companies have all had to deal with this.
Those companies still exist.
Bahamut.Milamber
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By Bahamut.Milamber 2015-12-28 00:05:52
Asura.Floppyseconds said: »There is no 100% driver Untrue. Sure, people screw up. Accidents happen. However, many accident free, perfect drivers exist. Too say otherwise is either ignorance or trolling. Accident free and perfect drivers are not the same sets. A perfect driver (one who obeys all traffic laws, rules, and regulations) would not necessarily be accident free. Utter *** who cause accidents for other people can remain accident free. Funnily enough, that's been the point of the article regarding modifying the driving algorithms.
Asura.Floppyseconds said: »I think you are asking for a 100% answer again Altima. I've never stopped.. They cannot put an autonomous car on the road. When, not if, it kills someone, lawsuits will rightfully start flying. This what insurance is for.
Bahamut.Kara
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By Bahamut.Kara 2015-12-28 00:07:39
It's a huge risk for everyone. For what? So you can nap while "driving"..
If the driverless cars are shown to be statistically superior in terms of accident prevention, it wouldn't make much sense to oppose it. When that day comes i'll change my tune, but it is a long way off.
From your OP
Quote: Turns out, though, their accident rates are twice as high as for regular cars, according to a study by the University of Michigan’s Transportation Research Institute in Ann Arbor, Michigan. Driverless vehicles have never been at fault, the study found: They’re usually hit from behind in slow-speed crashes by inattentive or aggressive humans unaccustomed to machine motorists that always follow the rules and proceed with caution.
The problem is humans.
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By Altimaomega 2015-12-28 00:09:23
Car companies have already had issues with malfunctioning cars that have maimed and killed people through no fault of the driver.
Those car companies still exist.
And it has cost them millions if not billions of dollars. You really think that cost hasn't been past down the line?
By Altimaomega 2015-12-28 00:12:06
It's a huge risk for everyone. For what? So you can nap while "driving"..
If the driverless cars are shown to be statistically superior in terms of accident prevention, it wouldn't make much sense to oppose it. When that day comes i'll change my tune, but it is a long way off.
From your OP
Quote: Turns out, though, their accident rates are twice as high as for regular cars, according to a study by the University of Michigan’s Transportation Research Institute in Ann Arbor, Michigan. Driverless vehicles have never been at fault, the study found: They’re usually hit from behind in slow-speed crashes by inattentive or aggressive humans unaccustomed to machine motorists that always follow the rules and proceed with caution.
The problem is humans.
Reading comprehension is a wonderful thing.
This what insurance is for. lol, yeah. Insurance solves all the problems.
Bahamut.Kara
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By Bahamut.Kara 2015-12-28 00:13:48
Car companies have already had issues with malfunctioning cars that have maimed and killed people through no fault of the driver.
Those car companies still exist.
And it has cost them millions if not billions of dollars. You really think that cost hasn't been past down the line? So?
Do you think we should stop driving cars because people sue?
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By Altimaomega 2015-12-28 00:14:56
Car companies have already had issues with malfunctioning cars that have maimed and killed people through no fault of the driver.
Those car companies still exist.
And it has cost them millions if not billions of dollars. You really think that cost hasn't been past down the line? So?
Do you think we should stop driving cars because people sue? Nope, I'm just pointing out the problems with driverless cars. What are you trying to do?
Bahamut.Kara
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By Bahamut.Kara 2015-12-28 00:16:05
It's a huge risk for everyone. For what? So you can nap while "driving"..
If the driverless cars are shown to be statistically superior in terms of accident prevention, it wouldn't make much sense to oppose it. When that day comes i'll change my tune, but it is a long way off.
From your OP
Quote: Turns out, though, their accident rates are twice as high as for regular cars, according to a study by the University of Michigan’s Transportation Research Institute in Ann Arbor, Michigan. Driverless vehicles have never been at fault, the study found: They’re usually hit from behind in slow-speed crashes by inattentive or aggressive humans unaccustomed to machine motorists that always follow the rules and proceed with caution.
The problem is humans.
Reading comprehension is a wonderful thing.
Yes....
Quote: The problem is humans.
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Bahamut.Kara
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By Bahamut.Kara 2015-12-28 00:16:56
Car companies have already had issues with malfunctioning cars that have maimed and killed people through no fault of the driver.
Those car companies still exist.
And it has cost them millions if not billions of dollars. You really think that cost hasn't been past down the line? So?
Do you think we should stop driving cars because people sue? Nope, I'm just pointing out the problems with driverless cars. What are you trying to do? All car companies get lawsuits, so that is not just a problem with driverless cars that is a problem with all cars...
Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-12-28 00:21:06
Sure, all car companies get lawsuits. But as it stands they're not held liable for each and every crash. When it's their systems doing the driving, it's going to get more tricky. I'm not saying it's impossible to make it work, but it's certainly not the status quo as you seem to be implying.
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By Altimaomega 2015-12-28 00:23:59
Yes....
Quote:
The problem is humans. You say this like it's a brilliant conclusion and can simply be remedied. Good Luck getting humans off the road.
Bahamut.Kara
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By Bahamut.Kara 2015-12-28 00:31:14
Sure, all car companies get lawsuits. But as it stands they're not held liable for each and every crash. When it's their systems doing the driving, it's going to get more tricky. I'm not saying it's impossible to make it work, but it's certainly not the status quo as you seem to be implying. No, they aren't and neither will driverless cars, especially when the accident is not their fault. Which is every accident driverless cars have been in, so far.
However, ignoring -for example- VW having cars in the 70's combust or goodyear tires cause accidents in the 90's -that would otherwise not have happened- to illustrate that driverless cars will somehow have new lawsuits is ignoring a lot of cases where car companies/tire companies have already been at fault for causing damage, maiming, and death.
I'm not saying driverless cars will not undergo lawsuits (of course they will), but acting like this will be anything new (car companies held accountable for mistakes in their design) is silly.
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By Bahamut.Kara 2015-12-28 00:34:51
Yes....
Quote:
The problem is humans. You say this like it's a brilliant conclusion and can simply be remedied. Good Luck getting humans off the road. Quoting a stat that driverless cars have twice as many accidents as normal cars but not pointing out the stat that they have never been at faul is -at best- misleading.
Humans caused the accidents get not the driverless cars. The human drivers involved got the tickets or were sued, not the driverless car companies.
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By Altimaomega 2015-12-28 00:37:25
I'm not saying driverless cars will not undergo lawsuits (of course they will), but acting like this will be anything new (car companies held accountable for mistakes in their design) is silly.
Acting like it isn't something new is unbelievable. Two humans get in an accident, one or both is responsible.
One AI car kills a human, or worst yet causes a massive pile-up and multiple deaths. Who is responsible for that? Saying the owner of the AI car is unacceptable.
By Altimaomega 2015-12-28 00:39:35
Quoting a stat that driverless cars have twice as many accidents as normal cars but not pointing out the stat that they have never been at faul is -at best- misleading.
Humans caused the accidents get not the driverless cars. The human drivers involved got the tickets or were sued, not the driverless car companies.
Why do you not understand that if those driverless cars had a real driver, NO accident would have even occurred! Why does this not register in your mind?
Bahamut.Milamber
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By Bahamut.Milamber 2015-12-28 01:19:55
Quoting a stat that driverless cars have twice as many accidents as normal cars but not pointing out the stat that they have never been at faul is -at best- misleading.
Humans caused the accidents get not the driverless cars. The human drivers involved got the tickets or were sued, not the driverless car companies.
Why do you not understand that if those driverless cars had a real driver, NO accident would have even occurred! Why does this not register in your mind? Because it is an utterly unsubstantiated claim? You could just as well have said that all of the incidents would have ended in fatalities.
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By Altimaomega 2015-12-28 01:28:49
Because it is an utterly unsubstantiated claim? You could just as well have said that all of the incidents would have ended in fatalities. their accident rates are twice as high as for regular cars
Reading comprehension is a wonderful thing.
all of the incidents would have ended in fatalities. is an utterly unsubstantiated claim You're good at making them at least.
Bahamut.Milamber
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By Bahamut.Milamber 2015-12-28 02:04:49
Because it is an utterly unsubstantiated claim? You could just as well have said that all of the incidents would have ended in fatalities. their accident rates are twice as high as for regular cars
Ravael, want to take this one? Correlation, causation, false comparison, etc.
all of the incidents would have ended in fatalities. is an utterly unsubstantiated claim You're good at making them at least. I'm making no such claim. I'm pointing out the absurdity of making such a claim.
Reading comprehension is a wonderful thing.
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Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-12-28 02:18:05
Because it is an utterly unsubstantiated claim? You could just as well have said that all of the incidents would have ended in fatalities. their accident rates are twice as high as for regular carsRavael, want to take this one? Correlation, causation, false comparison, etc.
I was holding off on that one until I actually knew what the reasoning behind the double rate was. If none of those accidents were caused by the driverless cars, that's a very good sign. I know I've avoided accidents simply because of human intuition, though. It'll be interesting to see how they deal with random acts of unpredictable human stupidity.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-12-28 13:02:51
It'll be interesting to see how they deal with random acts of unpredictable human stupidity. What, a logical machine deal with the randomness of human stupidity?
I'm surprised that the accident rate isn't at least quattuordecuple the rate.
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By Ramyrez 2015-12-28 13:09:09
Because it is an utterly unsubstantiated claim? You could just as well have said that all of the incidents would have ended in fatalities. their accident rates are twice as high as for regular carsRavael, want to take this one? Correlation, causation, false comparison, etc.
I was holding off on that one until I actually knew what the reasoning behind the double rate was. If none of those accidents were caused by the driverless cars, that's a very good sign. I know I've avoided accidents simply because of human intuition, though. It'll be interesting to see how they deal with random acts of unpredictable human stupidity.
I really don't care if there's more accidents as long as those accidents result in fewer fatalities and serious injuries.
Fender benders dealing in little to no serious-to-fatal injuries are a system that can be hammered out and tweaked until it's right.
But the second the system actually becomes one that keeps our goods and people moving and is less lethal it's a system worth adopting.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-12-28 13:10:34
I really don't care if there's more accidents as long as those accidents result in fewer fatalities and serious injuries. Of course driverless cars will result in less fatalities and serious injuries if there's nobody in the vehicle to be injured and/or killed.
By Ramyrez 2015-12-28 13:11:51
I'm clearly discussing use in a practical fashion similar to the way we already utilize vehicles. -.-;
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-12-28 13:25:10
I'm clearly discussing use in a practical fashion similar to the way we already utilize vehicles. -.-; And I was just yanking your chain.
By Enuyasha 2015-12-28 13:55:35
If the technology is made standard itd be totally amazing: But until then, youll have driverless cars senselessly being the targets of accidents cause people are still at the wheel of their car being inept as *** on how to operate a motor vehicle.
Wait 10+ years when even used cars have the software :)
This should be fun!
Do you think Driverless cars are a good idea or not?
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-12-18/humans-are-slamming-into-driverless-cars-and-exposing-a-key-flaw
Quote: The vehicles have racked up a crash rate double that of those with human drivers. Quote: Should they teach the cars how to commit infractions from time to time to stay out of trouble?
Quote: ethical issues driverless car creators are wrestling with over how to program them to make life-or-death decisions in an accident. For example, should an autonomous vehicle sacrifice its occupant by swerving off a cliff to avoid killing a school bus full of children?
Quote: Google has already programmed its cars to behave in more familiar ways, such as inching forward at a four-way stop to signal they’re going next. Asking for trouble I think.
Quote: But autonomous models still surprise human drivers with their quick reflexes, coming to an abrupt halt, for example, when they sense a pedestrian near the edge of a sidewalk who might step into traffic. This won't cause massive problems.
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