Trump Talk™

This is the only conspiracy I believe in:

I've been heavily silent on the Hillary Clinton mail scandal!

They are putting rainbow chemicals in my water sprinkler ! I demand answers !

Puts tin foil hat on: Hillary is behind the cop shootings to distract people from her e mail scandal !

Counter theory: Trump is behind it to distract from his pedo rape suit!

Pedo rape suit...types on google...3 seconds later FBI is at my house.

I'll have you know my rape suit is at the dry cleaners sir !

A trump rape suit ...and he just happens to be running for President the timing seems perfect...

Yeah. It's problematic. A lot of facets sound legit enough for it to be valid (the biggest being Trump's friendship and history with a convinced pedophile), but apparently there's connection to a guy with a history of frivolous suits against Trump involved too, so.

I'm leery, but it's also got enough things that check out on the surface to be believable.

False rape accusations minimize real rape so it is pretty despicable for any woman to do such a thing.

For anyone, period.

Though few enough raped men make accusations in the first place, I can't imagine the few that do are really faking it.

Because men can't actually complain about it since the media and society as a whole likes to pretend it doesn't exist, when in fact, it happens to males far more than females. But nobody cares about that.

Wouldn't go that far and would like to see statistics backing up that assertion.

But happening at all, ever, is too much and yeah. Society's reaction to male rape is just as bad, if not worse, than their already-terrible reaction to women's.

I would. You won't find actual rape statistics for men, because, as mentioned before, society doesn't care about males being raped, especially in prison, where an overwhelming number of the statistics lie. These are often not reported because, well, they're in prison (they just treat inmates like throwaways ) and hardly anyone would shed tears over those "criminals" (an absurdly high number of men are incarcerated for petty crimes, particularly minorities, but I digress). If they reported it, nothing is ever done to correct it, as most just chalk it up to "probably deserved it, that's what you get". But it doesn't mean those numbers don't add up. Do you really think you're going to get a fair number of rape statistics where the majority of females don't report it, and they are the ones we "care" about? How much less of a skewed graph if you actually went digging for males? Wouldn't be possible.

Rape isn't a female issue, its a human issue. Modern-day feminism would have you believe that its the former, but the truth is that it's more frequent to happen to males than females. Its just never actioned on, and out of sight, behind closed walls, so its out of mind, and nobody cares. Whenever people say "we live in a rape culture", they're absolutely right, but not in the distorted view it is used today.

How many times have you heard a person say of a convicted criminal, sex offender, pedophile, murderer etc "I hope he gets raped in jail"? Not justifying the behavior of the offender, but for every one time that's uttered, it probably happens a dozen more times over, and you and I both know it. We just choose not to think of it.

But again, nobody is supposed to care about men.

So you're making said statistics up instead.
You're not helping.

You're right, and point taken. But the overall point of my comments are still accurate: society/media doesn't care about men or their rape cases as a whole, which generally leads to it being disregarded and ignored.

Please be aware, I'm not saying you're wrong about the assertion that men get raped and society doesn't give it the proper consideration.

Because those are things that do happen and it is terrible.

But saying that it happens more than to women? I think that may be a bit of overstatement without being able cite statistics. While "society" as a whole may not care, there certainly are people who research these statistics that do.

I hear you. Sometimes, though, statistics are not always a source you can readily put faith in all of the time. This is one of those gray areas where analytics doesn't fully complete the puzzle.

True for both genders. It's a very, very difficult issue.

Sad but true. Whether it's due to the difficult nature of collecting certain types of data, or due to the all-too-common problem of complete hacks making and interpreting statistics, it's hard to believe anything you hear nowadays.

Which is why I'm still having a hard time wrapping my head around the presumptive nominees.

This isn't a statistical grey area. There is no evidence to support the claim that men are raped more than women. It's actually the first time I've ever seen anyone try to claim such a thing.

You may have only heard this claim from me, but I am not the only person who has mentioned this. Studies have been done. Take what you will from them.

You can do the search yourself if you think this is a fabricated myth. If I posted sources, you could just as easily call into question those websites' legitimacy. I'd rather you do a few searches and see what researchers are now saying.

I may or may not be right here, but that doesn't matter, as Ramyrez pointed out. Not going to debate about the issue. If you care enough, you can review and determine for yourself.

Link them.

It's a problematic issue, but another problematic issue is "menists" who downplay the amount of women who are raped and seem to think that because people are concerned about women being raped they're not concerned about it happening to men too.

On one degree, yes. It doesn't matter, but on another, you can't make a claim like that and not even try to back it up.

Also, going back a bit, prison rape also is a thing that happens, but you might be unclear about how much sex that goes on in prison is actually consensual.

Quick searches. You said it doesn't matter, but read for yourself.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2449454/More-men-raped-US-women-including-prison-sexual-abuse.html

http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2014/04/male_rape_in_america_a_new_study_reveals_that_men_are_sexually_assaulted.html

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/men-outnumber-women-among-american-rape-victims/

(commenting on the point that this is the first time a claim of this sort was ever mentioned)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knXHUQ2A1J4

Didn't spend a whole bunch of time researching, because that's not the real issue. But I will defend my original statement.
Studies today are now starting to account for female on female rape, male on boy rape (which is amazingly prevalent), and female on male rape (I know, shocking). But the idea that males can be raped more than women ruffles so many feathers when it is brought up, its amazing. Nobody wants to talk about it, they are just as dismissive as the people on the other side who ignore rape against females. We are getting nowhere here.

Don't care if you don't believe it. But I thought this point from a website was the most important: "We should not turn this into an attack on who is raped more, as that is completely dismissive of the real issue at hand". I would agree here.

And Ramyrez, don't insult my intelligence about consensual sex and rape. I am not unclear of the prevalence (and difference) of prison rape and consensual sex between adults. This is not the issue we are discussing, so don't try to inject unrelated points to try to blur the topic.

If you're going to use the notion that I could be "unclear" of the difference between rape and consensual sex among males in prison, I could just as easily use that same logic to dismiss the claim of males raping females. "Hey, that wasn't rape, it was consensual". See how dangerous that is?

Interesting, can't read them in full as I'm about to walk out the door, but I will.

I'm not saying you're confusing rape and consensual relations. I'm saying things get complicated in prison and I wonder about how such things are counted. I'm just saying that a lot of sex that goes on in prison is consensual too.

Not trying to be dismissive, I'm just still leary about the concept of more male rape than female given all circumstances, does that include date rape, etc.

Anyhow. I'm outta here. Stuff to do. I'll stop in later and try to read those more closely.

Things get complicated out of prison too. This isn't a unique defense for only one side of the debate, as the same could honestly be said about the other. Have you ever considered how many times a woman has sex with a male and then makes a false allegation regarding it being rape after the fact? Sure it was reported as rape, but was it? Neither I nor you know, but that doesn't mean an actual rape occurred. You're essentially saying the same thing "men have sex with men in prison, so it's not always rape". Really don't like that paper thin argument in this discussion, because you're deliberately trying to not talk about men being raped and quickly turn to something less undesirable.


You're not alone. Mass media is leery about it, society as a whole ignores and dismisses it, and even posters on this very forum don't believe it. Because the notion of a '"big burly man" being raped more than those defenseless damsels is so much of an outrageous idea, I can't accept it'. I get it. But consider how many males end up on a sex offender registry and are convicted of statutory rape for dating a girl who was 2 years younger than him, but below the age of consent. Rape. What about Boy-Lover pedophiles (which is so disgustingly popular, I almost want to punch my desk thinking about it) who have an entire community devoted to lowering the age of consent so prepubescent children can satisfy them. We're not even counting those instances, but that's absolutely rape. Gang rape in prisons isn't even thought about on the outside, because out of sight, out of mind, right? Also, women can rape men as well. But I know! You'll say that the man got an erection so it wasn't rape. Got it...

Oh, and I am not ignoring the idea that it happens to women, either. or little girls. It certainly does. But nobody has a problem accepting that women are raped. The moment you mention that "No wait, men are raped, a lot, and even in some countries, more than females", everyone loses their mind. Its unbelievable.

Ask yourself: Why is it so unreasonable as a society to believe that Men cannot be raped more than Women? Is it because we're always conditioned to believe that men are strong and that sort of stuff isn't a huge reality? Is it because bodies of males aren't found behind dumpsters with their pants down? Is it because they aren't going to the cops to report their plight because they will be laughed at for not "being a man"?

Gee, I wonder why. Probably because everyone judges and dismisses it, so why even bother. I've had these discussions before and I've been laughed at. It doesn't bother me now. But its a sad reality that nobody, and I mean NOBODY wants to admit.

Prison violence is an issue to address differently imo. Guards themselves have admitted(only in front of hidden cameras and not in official statements..)that prisons are pretty much a lawless land. Nobody cares what happens, and the guards pretty much can get away with about anything - including frequent cases of abuse(not necessarily sexual).

Anyway even if more men are raped in prison than women(still happens there too) it doesn't mean there is a higher general number of rape cases perpetuated on men.

We already ascertained that such statistic cannot be found so I don't see the necessity of insisting on the subject. Men get raped too, stop there.

The Daily Mail is literally a tabloid. Anything coming from that source should be heavily scrutinized.

So I found the DOJ report it was quoting - pdf file - and the numbers don't match up. Like, at all.

Daily Mail says:Meanwhile, the report says: Numbers aren't even close. Nor does it partition this number into male or female victims unless that is somewhere in a separate report.

To be clear, I'm not disagreeing with some of your core arguments. I do think there's a stigma associated with rape against a male victim, and that this undermines how awful and traumatic the act can be and contributes to the veil of silence that comes with being sexually violated. In the gay community, rape against men gets treated similarly to how rape against women is in the heterosexual community. Lots of victim blaming, shaming,and dismissive attitudes. I can't even imagine how much worse it is within prisons where the general attitude is that bad things should happen to bad people.

So, no, I'm not trying to argue against your concerns because I do think they're valid but there's no need to fabricate the facts here.