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U.S. Government Recommends Lower Level of Fluoride
Valefor.Endoq
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By Valefor.Endoq 2015-04-29 17:21:07
On a related anecdote, many years back I used to only ever drink soda, and any liquid I got from food was minimal. (Yes, I know that's not healthy.) A friend of mine told me that soda dehydrated people more than it hydrated them. No amount of me telling him that that was impossible because I'm not dead could convince him otherwise, because somebody told him, he believed it, he repeated it, and therefore the danger of being wrong was greater than the risk of defying logic. A more accurate way to repeat what your friend was saying is: there is not enough water in soda pop to FULLY remove/digest the ingredients in the soda pop. the end result of this will make your internal organs work extra hard to remove any harmful/excess ingredients you ingest/produce.
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Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-04-29 17:25:29
On a related anecdote, many years back I used to only ever drink soda, and any liquid I got from food was minimal. (Yes, I know that's not healthy.) A friend of mine told me that soda dehydrated people more than it hydrated them. No amount of me telling him that that was impossible because I'm not dead could convince him otherwise, because somebody told him, he believed it, he repeated it, and therefore the danger of being wrong was greater than the risk of defying logic. A more accurate way to repeat what your friend was saying is: there is not enough water in soda pop to FULLY remove/digest the ingredients in the soda pop. the end result of this will make your internal organs work extra hard to remove any harmful/excess ingredients you ingest/produce.
Whether or not that's true, it certainly isn't what he was trying to say. Regardless, that was more of a sidetrack to the more pertinent conversation that we were having in here. Any rebuttals?
Ragnarok.Sekundes
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By Ragnarok.Sekundes 2015-04-29 17:40:45
Okay... let's go back to 4th grade chem class for a moment shall we?
Sodium = explosively reactive with water
Chloride = poison
Sodium Chloride is salt... Literally table salt
Fluoride = Poison
Sodium = explosively reactive with water
Sodium Floride is NOT poison
Water Floridation is most often done using:
sodium fluoride (NaF)
fluorosilicic acid (H2SiF6)
sodium fluorosilicate (Na2SiF6)
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2015-04-29 17:44:11
there is not enough water in soda pop to FULLY remove/digest the ingredients in the soda pop Wrong. Soda is sugar water with negligible flavorants that provide no nutrition and are essentially just flushed through our system.
Humans have evolved to love sugar more than almost anything else on Earth. Given a choice between cake and a ***, our instincts would probably opt for the former.
These myths about toxin buildup and other garbage have zero basis in science, but they've been rigorously tested by science and found to be baseless. If you want to spout this nonsense misinformation, do it with a peer-reviewed link.
Valefor.Endoq
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By Valefor.Endoq 2015-04-29 17:53:58
On a related anecdote, many years back I used to only ever drink soda, and any liquid I got from food was minimal. (Yes, I know that's not healthy.) A friend of mine told me that soda dehydrated people more than it hydrated them. No amount of me telling him that that was impossible because I'm not dead could convince him otherwise, because somebody told him, he believed it, he repeated it, and therefore the danger of being wrong was greater than the risk of defying logic. A more accurate way to repeat what your friend was saying is: there is not enough water in soda pop to FULLY remove/digest the ingredients in the soda pop. the end result of this will make your internal organs work extra hard to remove any harmful/excess ingredients you ingest/produce. there is not enough water in soda pop to FULLY remove/digest the ingredients in the soda pop Wrong. Soda is sugar water with negligible flavorants that provide no nutrition and are essentially just flushed through our system.
Humans have evolved to love sugar more than almost anything else on Earth. Given a choice between cake and a ***, our instincts would probably opt for the former.
These myths about toxin buildup and other garbage have zero basis in science, but they've been rigorously tested by science and found to be baseless. If you want to spout this nonsense misinformation, do it with a peer-reviewed link.
just because you love something doesn't mean it isn't killing you... the sugar is the primary culprit in soda pop. you need water to flush it out. insulin diabetes from too much indigestible sugar is just one of the many problems from inadequate intake of CLEAN WATER. your body requires clean water to function....
By Bloodrose 2015-04-29 17:55:25
There are people who live wholly healthy lives, and still develop diabetes.
It's actually been documented as a genetic defect that affects the pancreas's ability to provide insulin.
Get your facts straight.
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By Bloodrose 2015-04-29 17:55:56
Also, it's insulin created by the body that removes excessive amounts of sugar from the body, not water.
Edit: Additionally, Diabetes is a problem of too much blood sugar, not sugar itself. The body converts all kinds of sugars, natural and synthetic/processed into glucose, the majority of which we ingest comes from bread, fruits, and vegetables.
Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-04-29 18:00:00
Also, can we get back to the nutrients in water? I want to know where this perfectly pure water is coming from.
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By Bloodrose 2015-04-29 18:00:56
well it won't be coming from earth. Even heavily processed/refined water with additional Ozone (O3) in it, is still mineralized.
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By Jetackuu 2015-04-29 18:45:47
On a related anecdote, many years back I used to only ever drink soda, and any liquid I got from food was minimal. (Yes, I know that's not healthy.) A friend of mine told me that soda dehydrated people more than it hydrated them. No amount of me telling him that that was impossible because I'm not dead could convince him otherwise, because somebody told him, he believed it, he repeated it, and therefore the danger of being wrong was greater than the risk of defying logic. I have a family member who keeps repeating that nonsense, I just roll my eyes.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-04-29 21:14:24
I want to know where this perfectly pure water is coming from. The tears of an anti-fluoride arguer who gets "educated" on the realities of life.
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2015-04-29 21:22:46
just because you love something doesn't mean it isn't killing you... You mean like water?
I mean, above and beyond drowning (or dying of thirst), it is very possible to be poisoned by molecularly-pure dihydrogen-monoxide.
Any more hyperbolic nonsense claims to make?
Also, can we get back to the nutrients in water? I want to know where this perfectly pure water is coming from. I can buy perfectly pure water in my grocery store for like a dollar a jug. It tastes like ***, too.
For those unaware, I'm talking about distilled water. The distillation process means there's basically nothing in the water. If you leave the jug out in sunlight for a few hours, some of the high-density polyethylene will break down and release some trace hydrocarbons, but that's about it and, again, relies on doing something profoundly stupid with your water.
Actually, I just double-checked and my suspicion was right: the lack of mineral deposits in distilled water can actually lead to illness and potential death. This nonsense of needing something molecularly-pure is for the birds. Except don't do that, because you'll kill the birds, too.
Valefor.Endoq
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By Valefor.Endoq 2015-04-29 21:31:57
absurd
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2015-04-29 21:32:40
Yeah, demonstrable, provable, repeatable science is absurd.
No, wait, that's not the right word.
By Jetackuu 2015-04-29 21:39:33
Actually, I just double-checked and my suspicion was right: the lack of mineral deposits in distilled water can actually lead to illness and potential death. This nonsense of needing something molecularly-pure is for the birds. Except don't do that, because you'll kill the birds, too.
I know it's recommended to be mix with formula, but that's interesting.
I also know that because the lack of minerals it acts as an insulator, not a conductor.
Ragnarok.Zeig
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By Ragnarok.Zeig 2015-04-29 21:44:56
On a related anecdote, many years back I used to only ever drink soda, and any liquid I got from food was minimal. (Yes, I know that's not healthy.) A friend of mine told me that soda dehydrated people more than it hydrated them. No amount of me telling him that that was impossible because I'm not dead could convince him otherwise, because somebody told him, he believed it, he repeated it, and therefore the danger of being wrong was greater than the risk of defying logic.
Someone probably made an analogy with seawater to your friend.
That someone didn't know that our bodies dealt with excess sugar and salt differently.
Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-04-29 21:49:53
Distilled water still isn't completely pure, typically. Getting it to the point where it is "ultrapure" can be expensive and generally is only used for industrial purposes, definitely not for drinking.
Ragnarok.Zeig
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By Ragnarok.Zeig 2015-04-29 21:51:29
There are people who live wholly healthy lives, and still develop diabetes.
It's actually been documented as a genetic defect that affects the pancreas's ability to provide insulin.
You're probably aware of that, but adopting a healthy lifestyle decreases the chances of developing type2 diabetes in your lifetime, by delaying it.
Sometimes by years, sometimes not by much. Everyone is different.
Also, it's insulin created by the body that removes excessive amounts of sugar from the body, not water.
From the blood. Glucosuria is pathological.
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By Bloodrose 2015-04-29 22:38:19
There are people who live wholly healthy lives, and still develop diabetes.
It's actually been documented as a genetic defect that affects the pancreas's ability to provide insulin.
You're probably aware of that, but adopting a healthy lifestyle decreases the chances of developing type2 diabetes in your lifetime, by delaying it.
Sometimes by years, sometimes not by much. Everyone is different.
Also, it's insulin created by the body that removes excessive amounts of sugar from the body, not water.
From the blood. Glucosuria is pathological. Yes, I am aware of the varying types and degrees of diabetes.
And thank you for the correction.
Leviathan.Kaparu
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By Leviathan.Kaparu 2015-04-30 00:36:20
just because you love something doesn't mean it isn't killing you... the sugar is the primary culprit in soda pop. you need water to flush it out. insulin diabetes from too much indigestible sugar is just one of the many problems from inadequate intake of CLEAN WATER. your body requires clean water to function....
His example is actually perfectly suited for the only point that matters. Repeat after me: toxicity is in the dosage.
We've evolved to love sugar because it provided so much of something we needed in a time when what we needed was so scarce and/or required a significant amount of work to obtain. Now that thing that we need, particularly as it pertains to this form, is so unprecedentedly available that it's actually quite easy to kill ourselves with it. Surprise motherfucking surprise- something ordinarily biologically benign is harmful in too large/frequent a dose.
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By Siren.Lordgrim 2015-04-30 01:06:39
just because you love something doesn't mean it isn't killing you... the sugar is the primary culprit in soda pop. you need water to flush it out. insulin diabetes from too much indigestible sugar is just one of the many problems from inadequate intake of CLEAN WATER. your body requires clean water to function....
His example is actually perfectly suited for the only point that matters. Repeat after me: toxicity is in the dosage.
We've evolved to love sugar because it provided so much of something we needed in a time when what we needed was so scarce and/or required a significant amount of work to obtain. Now that thing that we need, particularly as it pertains to this form, is so unprecedentedly available that it's actually quite easy to kill ourselves with it. Surprise motherfucking surprise- something ordinarily biologically benign is harmful in too large/ frequent a dose.
I agree frequent doses through multiple sources that contain fluoride is toxic and damages our bodies over time.
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Bahamut.Milamber
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By Bahamut.Milamber 2015-04-30 02:33:36
Great! Now somebody just needs to prove it. Otherwise, it's speculation brought about by paranoia. Agreed. I haven't stopped drinking fluoridated water or using fluoridated toothpaste, and don't plan to change my ways anytime soon. On the other hand though, this could be the asbestos of our time. Another brilliant idea from a previous generation that isn't so great afterall. this is a great example of a widely used substance that was thought to be harmless for a very long time until data could be compiled to show a link to its exposure and illness. So, let's ban it based on speculation? Anything else you want to ban because you think it might be bad? I'm sure if you allow a certain flower head that power, you would find your life a whole lot worse. no need for name calling... and this is not speculation, there is evidence that poisoning is bad for you, people having been posting it, you can also look it up for your self. no one can improve pure water by adding poison to it. pure water is the best water you can drink so why would you be OK with anything less?
No, pure water isn't the best water that you can drink. Most drinking water contains minerals that your body needs. I can guarantee that you have never drank 100% pure H2O in your life.
mineral rich water, aka hard water, is not good for your internal organs.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3775162/
Spoiler: you cannot survive on water alone where did I say that? Did you actually read the link, or just the abstract? Because it is far from conclusive, either for increased or decreased morbidity. It's pretty much a series of "it's situational".
It really doesn't support your claims.
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Bahamut.Milamber
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By Bahamut.Milamber 2015-04-30 02:40:13
On a related anecdote, many years back I used to only ever drink soda, and any liquid I got from food was minimal. (Yes, I know that's not healthy.) A friend of mine told me that soda dehydrated people more than it hydrated them. No amount of me telling him that that was impossible because I'm not dead could convince him otherwise, because somebody told him, he believed it, he repeated it, and therefore the danger of being wrong was greater than the risk of defying logic. A more accurate way to repeat what your friend was saying is: there is not enough water in soda pop to FULLY remove/digest the ingredients in the soda pop. the end result of this will make your internal organs work extra hard to remove any harmful/excess ingredients you ingest/produce.
Whether or not that's true, it certainly isn't what he was trying to say. Regardless, that was more of a sidetrack to the more pertinent conversation that we were having in here. Any rebuttals? From what I recall, most of those discussions have to do with diuretic effects of caffiene, which was previously thought to be stronger than it is.
Bahamut.Milamber
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By Bahamut.Milamber 2015-04-30 02:59:00
insulin diabetes from too much indigestible sugar Eh? I'm not a biologist/biochemist/doctor, but I'm fairly certain it isn't indigestible polysaccharides or oligosaccharides that cause diabetes.
Leviathan.Kaparu
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By Leviathan.Kaparu 2015-04-30 08:12:47
just because you love something doesn't mean it isn't killing you... the sugar is the primary culprit in soda pop. you need water to flush it out. insulin diabetes from too much indigestible sugar is just one of the many problems from inadequate intake of CLEAN WATER. your body requires clean water to function....
His example is actually perfectly suited for the only point that matters. Repeat after me: toxicity is in the dosage.
We've evolved to love sugar because it provided so much of something we needed in a time when what we needed was so scarce and/or required a significant amount of work to obtain. Now that thing that we need, particularly as it pertains to this form, is so unprecedentedly available that it's actually quite easy to kill ourselves with it. Surprise motherfucking surprise- something ordinarily biologically benign is harmful in too large/ frequent a dose.
I agree frequent doses through multiple sources that contain fluoride is toxic and damages our bodies over time.
Okay, now prove it.
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Leviathan.Kaparu
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By Leviathan.Kaparu 2015-04-30 08:15:54
insulin diabetes from too much indigestible sugar Eh? I'm not a biologist/biochemist/doctor, but I'm fairly certain it isn't indigestible polysaccharides or oligosaccharides that cause diabetes.
If it can't trigger an insulin response, it can't cause diabetes.
Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-04-30 08:28:34
just because you love something doesn't mean it isn't killing you... the sugar is the primary culprit in soda pop. you need water to flush it out. insulin diabetes from too much indigestible sugar is just one of the many problems from inadequate intake of CLEAN WATER. your body requires clean water to function.... His example is actually perfectly suited for the only point that matters. Repeat after me: toxicity is in the dosage.
We've evolved to love sugar because it provided so much of something we needed in a time when what we needed was so scarce and/or required a significant amount of work to obtain. Now that thing that we need, particularly as it pertains to this form, is so unprecedentedly available that it's actually quite easy to kill ourselves with it. Surprise motherfucking surprise- something ordinarily biologically benign is harmful in too large/ frequent a dose. I agree frequent doses through multiple sources that contain fluoride is toxic and damages our bodies over time. Okay, now prove it.
He believes it. To him that's worth more than a million scientific studies.
By fonewear 2015-04-30 08:29:29
just because you love something doesn't mean it isn't killing you... the sugar is the primary culprit in soda pop. you need water to flush it out. insulin diabetes from too much indigestible sugar is just one of the many problems from inadequate intake of CLEAN WATER. your body requires clean water to function.... His example is actually perfectly suited for the only point that matters. Repeat after me: toxicity is in the dosage.
We've evolved to love sugar because it provided so much of something we needed in a time when what we needed was so scarce and/or required a significant amount of work to obtain. Now that thing that we need, particularly as it pertains to this form, is so unprecedentedly available that it's actually quite easy to kill ourselves with it. Surprise motherfucking surprise- something ordinarily biologically benign is harmful in too large/ frequent a dose. I agree frequent doses through multiple sources that contain fluoride is toxic and damages our bodies over time. Okay, now prove it.
He believes it. To him that's worth more than a million scientific studies.
Oh yea I believe it more than you believe it ! Belief debate !
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-04-30 08:29:45
just because you love something doesn't mean it isn't killing you... the sugar is the primary culprit in soda pop. you need water to flush it out. insulin diabetes from too much indigestible sugar is just one of the many problems from inadequate intake of CLEAN WATER. your body requires clean water to function.... His example is actually perfectly suited for the only point that matters. Repeat after me: toxicity is in the dosage.
We've evolved to love sugar because it provided so much of something we needed in a time when what we needed was so scarce and/or required a significant amount of work to obtain. Now that thing that we need, particularly as it pertains to this form, is so unprecedentedly available that it's actually quite easy to kill ourselves with it. Surprise motherfucking surprise- something ordinarily biologically benign is harmful in too large/ frequent a dose. I agree frequent doses through multiple sources that contain fluoride is toxic and damages our bodies over time. Okay, now prove it.
He watches YouTube videos on it. To him that's worth more than a million scientific studies. ftfy.
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Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-04-30 10:04:12
And your point is...what again?
That we should strive to be more like Vietnam, Peru, and Serbia?
I thought you said you loved your country, why are you trying to change it to a 3rd world country? Well, other than economically that is. loving your country and believing your country is superior to all others is not the same thing... How many people died from fluoride poisoning again?
this has already been stated:
you need a large dose to die directly from toxicity. it's the slow damage to internal organs over time that are the silent killer going unnoticed until more data has been compiled and reviewed like it has been lately to put these factors into light.
The long term effects of exposure to ultra small amounts of fluoride is pretty inconclusive.
There are some opinions over time that exposure to small amounts of "bad things" over a lifetime is generally unhealthy, there are other opinions that suggest that small exposure to "bad things" is more beneficial because your body adapts it's immune system to dealing with it.
Either way, the area of study is hardly settled, and I hate to break it to you, but it likely won't be before anyone actually dies from long term micro exposure to fluoride.
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U.S. Government Recommends Lower Level of Fluoride in Water
Well i hate to say i told you so that it was bad, but even the Government is having a hard time saying it is. This is a start to removing it completely.
Quote: For the first time in more than 50 years, the federal government has recommended lowering the level of fluoride in drinking water.
Since 1962, the Department of Health and Human Services (DHHS) suggested that public tap water contain between 0.7 and 1.2 milligrams of fluoride per liter. But on Monday, the department said now it's recommending that the level not exceed 0.7 milligrams per liter (which is the same as 0.7 parts per million, or ppm). The announcement comes as no surprise; the DHHS first proposed making this change in 2011, and most large cities have already lowered their fluoride levels accordingly.
Water utilities add fluoride to the taps of two-thirds of Americans for the purpose of reducing cavities. Higher levels of fluoride have been shown to increase the risk of dental fluorosis, a staining of the teeth. Mild cases lead to white spots, while more severe ones can cause brown stains and mottling. The most recent data shows that 41 percent of American adolescents between the ages of 12 and 15 have some form of fluorosis, a number that continues to rise, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
The DHHS said in a statement on Monday that the move should reduce the chance of developing fluorosis while still helping to prevent cavities. When the 0.7 to 1.2 ppm recommendation was first made, there were fewer sources of fluoride.
“While additional sources of fluoride are more widely used than they were in 1962, the need for community water fluoridation still continues,” said Deputy Surgeon General Rear Admiral Dr. Boris Lushniak. “Community water fluoridation continues to reduce tooth decay in children and adults beyond that provided by using only toothpaste and other fluoride-containing products.”
The American Dentistry Association and public health researchers lauded the announcement. But some don’t think it goes far enough.
Fluoridation first began in 1945 in Grand Rapids, Michigan, and there is evidence that the practice helped reduce cavities when the mineral wasn’t widely available in toothpastes and rinses, among other things. But there hasn’t been enough research done in recent years to show that it is still necessary, says Dr. Philippe Grandjean, an environmental health researcher and physician at Harvard University.
“We need to revisit those benefits to make sure that the old reports are still valid for the current fluoride exposure situation,” Grandjean says.
He advocates using fluoride topically (e.g. brushing your teeth with toothpaste), as opposed to swallowing it and subjecting all of the body’s organs to the chemical. It became clear around 1999 that fluoride primarily acts topically and needn’t be swallowed to be effective. He also noted that cavity rates have declined at similar rates in countries with and without fluoridation.
More recent research indicates that fluoridation may have unforeseen negative health effects. Studies published this year have suggested a link between fluoridation and attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, as well as an underactive thyroid. Scores of studies, mostly done in China, have also shown that high levels of naturally occurring fluoride in water harm brain development and reduce IQ.
“I’d say it’s a reasonable concern that fluoride can affect brain development," Grandjean says. “Lowering the recommended fluoridation level to 0.7 mg per liter is very well-justified. I would in fact recommend that the level be reduced even further.”
Gov't Admits Fluoride Is Bad For You
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