The 6th Ministry's Secret: A Summoner's Guide (v2)

Apogee+1 body/legs were always pretty mediocre upgrades over the second best (non-Merlinic) alternative for a lot of BPs. The +3 AF body turned Apogee +1 body into a 100mil skill+20/refresh+4 piece. Capped Enticer's pants have arguably been better than Apogee +1 legs even for physical BPs since they added TP mods to them.

Doesnt path d legs beat enticers, esp with a da build? I thought for phys pacts tp doesn't mean ***for most except the damage scaling ones.

Near perfect melinic augments that beat apogee +1 are a higher cost than apogee+1 just due to chance estimates from needing multiple at/near cap augments at once.

The other aug sets you need are siphon & fastcast, both moderately cheap. macc was beaten by af+3 and the ambu set.

I've dumped a couple thousand stones into augments and have nothing really good to show. My best merlinic hands are 8 bpd, 9 dex, 28 macc, 29 mab. No phys hands yet. Grio is underwhelmingly aug'd, nothing solid on body or head magic aug attempts.

Capped Enticers: 650 TP Bonus, 3% DA, 5% Crit, 12% BPD
Apogee D: 20 STR, 23% BPD, 4% DA

So you gain 11% BPD, 20 STR, and 1% DA but lose 650 TP Bonus and 5% Crit

Maybe it's worthwhile, but idk if STR is even a mod (beyond fSTR) for physical BPs. For Claw and Predator Claws, iirc, I proposed 30% DEX as the mod.

I really should not waste my time fighting over why a mage job can be more expensive than a melee job. Any job can run up a 5b tab but to say that SMN is much cheaper than a THF or BLU is just ludicrous.

However I understand that not everyone plays like I do and the way I play is expensive. Most SMN's do not have a lot of the following sets.

Pet Engaged set
Pet PDT/Regen/Defense set
Enhancing Duration set
6-8 different BP rage sets with varying accuracy
4 Different healing sets
Enfeebling Magic set
5 hit melee set with even perp and as much dex/acc as i can stack
1000 tp return occult/impact set
Max myrkr set
A regular nuking set
PDT/MDT sets

Almost all of those sets are augmented sets and we all know they can vary in price. The point is any player can easily sink 5b in a job going for good augments hell you could even go past 10b. But to say SMN is much cheaper than another job is ignorant.

Are you spending a mil per stone like frod to augment reis gear?

you can say '6-8 different BP rage sets with varying accuracy' but the reality is with that many different accuracy levels most of the sets are only 1-piece changes.. same goes for most of your other sets

tell yourself whatever you like, the reality is none of you have a SMN worth more than 2B and i'd be surprised if more than one or two of them are worth over 1B

1B buys 109,000 fern stones at current asura price..

You've somehow convinced yourself and newer players interested in smn of your *** and they in-turn either don't gear the job properly, thinking it'll cost too much to even try, or just shy away from the job all together.

Lets look at your sets at MAX costs:
Pet Engaged set
-Klouskap Sash +1 [75m]
-Stikini +1 [200m]

Pet PDT/Regen/Defense set
-Dusk Orb +2 are 4mil per stack - assume 5 stacks [20m]
-Leaf Orb +2 are 2mil per stack - assume 5 stacks [20m]

Enhancing Duration set
-Duskdim +2 are 7m per stack - assume 5 stacks [35m]

6-8 different BP rage sets with varying accuracy
Varying sets of acc doesn't cost more once you have your base gear. The "varying accuracy" in gear will come from rare/ex items such as Enmerkar Earrings
-Nirvana [250m]
-HQ Dalm [100m]
-HQ Slacks [80m]
-HQ Crown x2 [25m]
-HQ feet x2 [80m]
-2x Varar +1 [200m]
-HQ hands? I guess? [30m]
-3rd HQ feet for 5 smn magic? [40m]

4 Different healing sets
-Healing sets for smn are free. Are you referring to Eschalixir +2s?

Enfeebling Magic set
-Enfeebling sets are also free.

5 hit melee set with even perp and as much dex/acc as i can stack
-Stone augments running you into the billions?
-Or perhaps you have quad 3 augments?

1000 tp return occult/impact set
-Occult sets are free as well. Did you pay for a Khatvanga? If so, we can add 300mil.

Max myrkr set
-Assuming you have Amalric +1 legs [200m].
-Dualism Collar +1 [5m]
-Psilomene [2m]
-Rest of the gear is rare/ex

A regular nuking set
-Assuming you have full Amalric+1, we can add another 600mil

PDT/MDT sets
-PDT/MDT sets are also free.

Assuming you have full Amalric +1, dark matter augs for quad3 and refresh2, you've still barely touched 2bil. Even if everything was merc'd for you, you'd be under 2.5bil.

Spewing out numbers like 5bil is insulting to people who have actually spent that kind of gil to gear their jobs.


Saying you need to spend ~1bil to be a "high end smn" is absolutely false.

My idle in town gear alone is at 1b. And to the difference between my Normal physical bpact set and lowacc set is 3 merlinic pieces. The difference between the Normal magical bpact set and the lowacc counterpart is 3 merlinic pieces and grio. (I am excluding accessories and what not).

But I do not really care if you are surprised. I will say that a large portion of my expenditures on my SMN were on augments. Augmented pieces that I still use to this day.

Town Idle Gear based on latest sales prices on asura:
Reforged Nirvana : 370m
Varar +1 x2 : 500m
Sancus Sachet +1 : 25m
Elan Strap +1 : 20m
Voodoo Crown : 15m
Voodoo Pumps : 40m
Voodoo Slacks : 90m
Voodoo Dalmatica : 60m

I'll even leave out the gloves.

And if you play literally any other job, a lot of those are covered between multiple jobs

This just went from a discussion to an lol thread. I'll take my leave.

P.S your 3 merlinic sets and grios, if they were merc'd, wouldn't run you more than 80m.

Those sets were mere examples. Frod and I have multiple HQ sets. And your leaving out a lot of our cost in merlinic for our hybrid sets. I'm not saying you cant build a decent smn for 1b. I am simply telling you how much I have spent and defending the fact that a SMN's cost can be just as much or more than any other job.

Also, Pet engaged set is full 3 augments on helios pieces.

They cost much more than that when you try to get perfect with the tertiary augments you want. Also yes you are correct I was reading FFXIAH wrong, while they have sold for 250m they are about 100m now. But if i include the money i spent on gloves im still at 1b.

I miss when this thread was about job discussion.

What is your go to Avatar in any fight?

Yeah, now its about some nobody trying to ride the coat tails of some Dbag

There is a lot of things to factor in. What the mobs defense is what they are weak too both elemental wise and damage wise. And more importantly what buffs you have and what debuffs the mob has. But here is a good base line.

For mobs with weaker defense Ifrit
For mobs with higher defense Ramuh
For mobs with higher defense and MP/Healing is a concern Garuda
For mobs with higher defense and MP/Healing/Status is a concern Levi

If someone else cant replicate what you claim, you must be a liar. lol....

I'll just go back to smashing tier4s while others who cant with the same strategy tell me how its done and try their hardest to discredit any little thing they can.

I find Apogee[D] to be best for pretty much all multi-hit physical pacts, although Papesse did some testing a while back finding a few single-hit BPs greatly benefitted from TP such as Spinning Dive, Crescent Fang, Mountain Buster, and Rock Buster. I use Enticer's for those, and Apogee+1[D] for all other physical pacts.

I actually also use Apogee+1[D] for Flaming Crush, but I've been meaning to re-test the various leg pieces since I swapped from Apogee Dalm+1[A] to Convoker Doublet+3. It could be Apogee+1[A] on legs is better now that I've lost the MAB from the body... testing that BP is even worse than most BP though.

True: A useable high endgame smn can be had in under 1 bil.

Also True: Splurging out on specific sets, highly specific augments and niche pieces will vastly inflate that cost beyond the 1 bil.



Summary: stop arguing semantics between costs with two different ideals on it, you ***.






Back on topic:
Is there any parse data on DA gear post November? i want a rough gauge as to what 1 DA is worth vs BPD.

I made Nirvana (Alex was about 6k each, Scoria were 4mil each, Beitetsu was 9k each but I didn't AG yet), got 4/5 Apogee +1 (~220mil), bought 2x Varar +1 (100m?), made a Sancus Sachet +1 (spent maybe 5mil, but spent two hours farming Vulcanite ores so call it 7mil?), got someone to make an Elan strap +1 (10mil? I honestly don't remember), and augmented Merlinic Dastanas (~250 fern stones, but I could see spending more to get either a slightly better magic augment or a better physical augment set.) In addition to that, I upgraded various Relic/AF/Empyrean pieces (lets say 10mil). You can also value the two capes I've made at about 20,000 hallmarks/gallantry, which is worth about 10mil.

So I'm up over 500m spent.

Left on my list at this point is Klouskap Sash +1 (~meh~), 2x Stikini +1 (a bit more useful), AGing Nirvana (MELEE SMN!!!), AF+3 Body/Head/Feet at least (I'm doing it when I get the cards)


I could see getting up to a bil, but it relies on some pretty heavy-duty T0 HQs that most people just won't pursue.

Wasting 2bil on useful endgame gear for SMN would be somewhat difficult. I'm thinking, like, afterglow Claustrum, all the other stuff I listed above, set of Amalric +1 for awesome Garlands, Avatar TP sets, etc. Stuff that doesn't actually help your job.

I made a calculator sort of like Verda's a while back, and it was pretty easy to adapt for comparing the two stats. I designed it for 3-hit BPs, I'll try to update it later for n-hit.

For 3-hit BPs where fTP carries, and with my current gear, 1 BP Dmg adds 0.3846% damage and 1 DA adds 0.5848% damage.

Here are the links:
http://pastebin.com/WQ1Gn8Hs - 3-hit Physical BP
http://pastebin.com/eWurs5V1 - Magic BP

The top section is the important bit. The equipment helper just helps you total up and compare different builds quickly.

Hello, friends! What's been happening here?


0__0
Ah.
A series of cross-server pissing contests about prices.
Good to know fake money statistics are just as vital to show off as real money statistics are.

I would also point out the caveat of things with really high MDT/MDB Ifrit starts to go gimpy. (For example, most Ambuscades have been anti-magic. This month's is an exception for Vol 1 at least.)

And just personally, I find myself favoring Garuda for her Hastega. But that's just my personal taste. (And Ramuh has much better Apogee synergy.)

And if you're fighting in a magic situation, I like Shiva, if you are/can burst ice. Her TP bonus is a substantial increase to her damage, especially Heavenly Strike. And Diabolos has a constant stream of damage, with more refresh if you need that.

Really, all the Avatars have a time and place, like Heliades said.

Klouskap fell to being an avatar TP piece due to incarnation sash's DA and the new ou sash.

You only need one stikini +1, and that's only for offhand refresh and the +8 skill. main refresh finger should/could be... one of the +2 refresh soa rings.

Let me first start off by saying this isn't a confrontational post or the sharing of thoughts to entice further drama.

That being said, no one is discrediting anything here and just because we use the same Hot Mess Blood Pact on the same Joe Blow T4 doesn't mean we're replicating what you guys do. It simply means we're both using the same efficient methods for that particular NM(s).

Also, I can promise you that you guys aren't the only linkshell defeating T4's with SMN's. The only difference is we have a linkshell full of SMN's who are geared just the same as the players participating in this discussion, so this high-end utopia you guys are living in isn't exclusive to just you.

It's truly a shame that this SMN bandwagon has created the unnecessary e-peen competitive nonsense that's contributed to the toxic environment that exists now. The incessant need to set ones self apart from everyone else by flaunting exaggerated and bloated statistics is not only pretentious but obnoxiously nauseating.

I understand why it's being done by certain individuals but to elaborate on it goes against my initial disclaimer at the top of this post, so I'll just leave it at that.

Assuming there is a stat mod on the 75 pacts. And assuming each avatar is based on the stat they align to.. what would the assumed damage difference be between say 15 str and 15 agi for garuda or 15 str and 15 dex for ramuh?

Well, I can't really guess the potency of the modifiers (which would vary by BP), but I do know it would be a lot easier to check it now than it used to be. Perhaps after I'm done burning my sacred kindred crests I'll go figure out physical BP modifiers.

For fSTR, 20 STR would be expected to give 5 base damage, which would be in the low single digits as a percent based boost to damage. I'd guess a number like 2% or 3%, but that's going to be multiplicative with BPD (so it might be equivalent to another 4-6% BPD if you had +100% BPD)

apologies my comment was to one person specifically. I'm well aware of others clearing schah easily with good Nirvana SMNs.

I think the way to solve this is to make Apogee unlimited, lower the timer on it or increase the MP consumption of the BP used. You already have a significant MP reduction as a cost of using it. Why not allow a SMN to use it as many times as they want. Their MP will drain a lot faster if abused anyway.
Nothing pisses me off more than when I use Soothing Ruby to take off Paralyze only to have the mob re-use it a second later. Now I have to wait 23 seconds to remove it. BOOM, Apogee > BP. Done.

Quick question about Merlinic hands, is it possible to get both Pet: Accuracy and Attack at the same time? Burned through about 1200 stones last night and never saw the two together so wanted to know if I'm just extremely unlucky or if its a futile attempt. Thanks!

No