The 6th Ministry's Secret: A Summoner's Guide (v2)

thanks for the info Pergatory, have another question for you.

What pieces are worth swapping out/in for nirvana AM3 up on physical bloodpacts? I understand earring to gelos, assuming you dont need the ACC from it, any others?

I swap Kyrene to Gelos, Relic body to AF, and Helios Boots to Apogee Pumps +1 path B. The accuracy ends up being a wash, I lose 15 on earring, 28 on feet, and gain 45 on body.

The guide recommends crit augments though as far as I see?

The guide was written before the Pet:DA change, so it made more sense to use crit rate back then. The Pet:DA change came much later, after Apogee gear had been introduced.

So for a long time the best Volt Strike gear was Helios with BPD & Crit, as in the guide. Then along came Apogee, and the +1 gear had more BPD than Helios, so Apogee+1 became the best. Then came the Pet:DA change, and that's when Helios made a comeback, this time with DA instead of Crit.

Right right.

But is Helios actually the best anyways?

How much of the following Volt Strike set is actually wrong and should use Helios?

ItemSet 359784

Also now that we can R15 Nirvana, how big of a difference is there between Nirvana and Gridarvor when AM3 isn't up?

I personally use helios band, AF+3 body and hands, Apogee+1 D legs, B Feet.
Helios was at one point best in each slot by like fractions of a percent, i still think it is on paper, but it has no acc. so i tradeoff and go with the AF+3 pieces for big acc boosts.

No change on nirvana vs gridarvor. it's still 14% nirvana (now with even more acc!) and 8% gridarvor.

edit- for a pure acc build that doesn't sacrifice much damage at all, i go with AF+3 body, hands, feet. Apogee+1 Head and legs.

So Gridarvor => Nirvana is like a 5.5% dmg increase without AM3 up?

That seems pretty lackluster for 200mil gil.

What ended up being the verdict on the JSE Sup5 staff? Trash?

And how does a perfect rolled enticer pants compare to apo +1?

Since I happen to have such a thing.

that's nirvana without aftermath. Nirvana with aftermath is like a 40% damage boost.

draumstafir path C is melee hits only, double damage does nothing of note. the bp effect is stat modifiers on pacts, so again not a huge boost.

D path pants are 21 bpd, 4 DA, 20 str, vs enticer's 12 bpd, 3 DA.
Enticer's does better on magic pacts due to the TP bonus, which falls off at a certain amount of pet TP, say from avatar melee, pet regain, or mana cede. i did a chart years ago for this.

Makes sense, very informative!

Whats your thoughts on AF+3 body vs Relic+3 body for Volt Strike and friends?

And with Gridarvor instead of Nirvana, is there any point JSE Necks NQ to +2) begin surpassing Shulmanu?

NQ JSE neck is only like 700K, and if there isnt a huge gap between it and Shulmanu, I may go for that instead.

For a quick gauge of power on gear...

for volt strike take any BPD and multiply it by .35, take any DA and multiply it by .55

for Flaming crush go BPD > MAB = ATK > anything else for 99% of gear

For magic damage pacts 1 BPD = 2.5 MAB

Wait does Crit Chance not matter anymore then? How does that work in?

as far as i know it was a "better than nothing' stat and is now largely irrelevant or minor compared to others.

Physical BPs can technically crit but it won't actually increase the damage beyond what's possible with attack alone. So if your attack isn't capped then yes crits can help.

Crit used to be amazing because you couldn't boost pet acc/atk/etc., so avatars were insanely under-statted all the time. (Atma of the Razed Ruins was incredible at the time for SMNs.)

These days, with good gear, job points, and stuff like Frailty on harder mobs, crit rate ends up being pretty low on the priority list.

anyone got acc requirements for reisenjima helms/ru'an kirin/woc? all the info on BG seems to be pre final set of combat stat nerfs.

My Volt set is 1455Acc in reisenjima with vorseals no food or rolls, add 70~100 Acc from rolls, 70-110 from food, and -200 Eva from Bolster Torpor if Idris. Thats more or less what ppl use.

Acc outside vorseals zones is 1300~

Was it determined that Draumstafir was useful for anything? Maybe MACC? Or is it just a fancy lockstyle staff.

I had to test a while back for my low man/solo challenges and I might be correct, might not, but it's definitely close.

Kirin/Kouryu 1700 acc cap.
WoC - 1750 - 1800 acc cap.

Onychophora - 1400 - 1450 without all stat down effect acc cap.
Teles - 1600 before Evasion boost then roughly 1650-1700 I think.
Vinipata - I haven't tried solo/low man, but estimate of 1650 acc cap.
Albumen - 1850 - 1900 while daytime. level up might be closer to 2000 acc to cap.
Zerde is roughly 1750 - 1800 I think, not sure.
Erinys - I have 0 clue, but estimate of 1600.
Schah - 1700, could be higher, but not much if it is.

So after augmenting my Helios Boots a[li][/li]
nd comparing it to HQ Apogee Pumps, I noticed that it would be essentially 8% DA (well, I only managed to hit 7% so far) vs 7 BP due to the set bonus from Apogee Slacks and Pumps being worn together. Is Double Attack just stronger point for point now for Volt Strike and Predator's Claw or is it a case of diminishing returns? And would this answer vary based off whether or not you have Nirvana's aftermath up (I don't have Nirvana yet, but I'm planning on getting it next so I'm looking towards the future)?


Edit:

Ah, so I went back through the forum posts to read some of the comments and found this in a post:

Which would seem to suggest that 8% DA is = to 5 BP which would mean Apogee Pumps +1 wins due to the set bonus with Apogee Slacks +1 (totaling at 7 BP over Apogee Slacks +1/Helios Boots combo).


However, I see further down there is this post:


Which would contradict the previous one, so I'm not really sure what to think. I tried to look for the SMN Bloodpact Damage Calculator on google but I couldn't find it so I'm not sure what to think lol. I already have the Helios augmented and I don't have a second set of HQ pumps so I guess it's not a big deal if the damage difference is really tiny, I'm just wondering.

When in doubt trust Frod.

I would trust any of the people who do actual testing or can calculate damage over a memelord who's only claim to fame is sitting on the job forever.

pergatory ftw

(Though the actual question is ultra subjective since we don't even have real defense values on most content)

Helios's feet stats are 7 bpd, 8 DA. so 2.45+4.4=6.85%
apogee's feet are 12 BPD, so 4.2%
Apogee crown is only 10 bpd, so 3.5%
Apogee legs are 23 bpd, 4 da, so 8.05+2.2=10.25% (without the bonus 2% they are 9.55%)
Helios spats are 14 bpd, 8 DA, so 4.9+4.4=9.3%

helios legs+feet is 16.15%
apogee legs+feet is 14.45%
Apogee legs, Helios Feet: 16.4%


There's a couple caveats to all this 'math'. Pergatory's calculator balances this stuff alot better because in actuality the stats are in a sort of balance, as you stack one the other is worth 'more' so you see things like the kyrene's earring bouncing with gelos earing for 2nd place. Aftermath also may push BPD gear to be better over helios, and lastly side stats may be more useful than we admit, though nobody is crazy enough to roll perfect stat merlinic for testing.

Okay, so it's basically like the relationship between MAB and BP or the different types of Enhancing Duration, boosting them both tends to provide a bigger increase than just boosting one.

Thanks for the insight, I think I'll just stick with the Helios Boots then and not worry about a second pair of pumps, my wallet will appreciate that.

Yes that's exactly correct, BP & DA can be treated as separate multipliers just like BP & MAB on magic BPs. Every DA proc on Pred/Volt is about +33% damage, so +1% DA means +0.33% damage on average. So point for point at the beginning BP Dmg is actually better. It's just that we can get a lot more BP Dmg than DA, so DA ends up being more valuable in the end.

P.S. My calculators are on my pastebin: https://pastebin.com/u/pergatory

Save them as ".html" and open them in a browser. They're not true spreadsheet style calculators, they're only for comparing those two multipliers.

Edit: I say "about +33%" because I think the first hit might be a bit stronger than the others but I've never really figured out if that's true or by how much.

i believe it once was that way, before the DA change, but didn't they specifically say they evened it out? i remember plenty of 75 era colibri camps where predator claws would hit for below 1/3rd normal values.

So anything on my Draumstafir question? Completely useless? MACC? Lockstyle?

What food is everyone using? Trying to determine between Shiromochi, Kusamochi, and Akamochi for physical blood pacts general purpose, Omen bosses, and Reisenjima Helm. Thanks.

I mostly use Akamochi +1.

shiro/aka for phys
Marine stewpot for magical/dynamis.

Someone made the statement that Draum was better than Nirvana without AM3 but to me that makes Draum seem pretty good. For situations like this months ambu where you nuke boss within 30 seconds or your pet dies.

Not a Smn myself but I've seen them do capped damage without putting up AM3.
If Draum is for Physical BPs only I suppose that would add damper to it, because capping Flaming Crush is easier right?