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Everyone knew, but didn't care cause content was free with mages.

People claim to care about the challenge, but they're full of ***.

So the truth behind their complicated description of "calculation bug" is simply that +10 macc was actually +10% macc lol?
Wonder if the same applies to Vex and Attunement, and I assume it is exactely the same for Languor.

Geo was(is) VERY OBVIOUSLY broken. Blatantly, in fact.

You'd fight tooth and nail arguing it wasn't. Delusional.

The same thing is going to happen with BLU. Then all these people will be like "oh yeah I knew it was broken." liars.

Probably going to happen to summoner too. Depending on severity of changes, smns will be even more op with the plethora of buffs they've received.

Let's put in some numbers for a more practical view on the topic.

Max Languor => -50 Meva
Dunna Languor => -75 Meva
Idris Languor => -100 Meva
(no bolster)

Frazzle II => -50
Frazzle III => -90
(these are the max attainable values)

T1 Threnody => -70
T2 Threnody => -180
(these are values with Ghorn, currently the best instrument in game as far as potency is concerned)


So, are we trying to say that Languor was supposed to be -100 Meva, but it turned out to be -100% Meva?
IF this is true (see Tychefm's post) then I assume there is a cap somewhere (90%?) because otherwise Idris Languor alone, without bolster and without Focus, would've already floored target's resistance to debuff, and we know this is not the case, since Bolster still makes quite a difference on most high level targets.

First thought: I don't think Languor is % based, it's still a static value, just higher than the -100 that it should be


Next thing is when comparing -Meva values to -Eleresistance values.
As far as we know Frazzle III numbers are right.
If we accept this as true, ThrenodyII should be much more powerful than FrazzleIII, exactly double the potency (but for a single element). This is quite a noticeable difference that would require no detailed test to be noticed, and yet what we see in reality is the other way around, T2 Threnodies are much weaker than FrazzleIII

Second Thought: I still think there is no 1:1 correspondance between -ElementalResistance and -Meva. Eleres is not -meva but for a single element, it's something else, whatever it is, and it's less "powerful" (per number) compared to Meva-

I'd say it seems likely, and here's why: I have a lot of experience tanking stuff on PUP, and Pet: Magic Evasion gear never seems nearly as effective as Attunement.

I have Pet:Meva+21~25 augments on 5 tanking pieces (4/5 Taeon set, and Ohrmazd). I forget exact number offhand, but it's something like Meva+110 total. Right in between Dunna/Idris GEO Attune (Meva+95 for Dunna, Meva+125 for Idris). Yet, any PUP with a lot of tanking experience who has fooled around with MEva gear probably knows just from "feel" that swapping it in from other non-Meva pieces (say, Rao gear) just ain't the same as players resisting stuff under Attune.

However, it IS pretty obvious that automatons will resist spells more often when a GEO tosses Vex on the mob to drop its Macc (same amount of Macc- as Attune gives players Meva+, 95/125 for Dunna/Idris). It feels much more like what happens to players when a GEO uses just one of Vex/Attune.

It was always pretty puzzling why these seemed to be significantly different, when the amounts of Meva+/Macc- should make any one of Vex, Attune (player), and similar amount of Meva gear (pet) be pretty similar. For players, Vex/Attune more or less help the same amout, but for pets Vex was clearly more beneficial than an equal amount of Meva from gear.

I always thought maybe the innate pet "ilevel" stats just gave less baseline Meva than what's on the average player 119 armor sets. At this point it seems to be a pretty safe bet there is some hidden level of Meva for automaton from the animator/level, illustrated pretty strongly when the "ilevel 119" Animator P came out with much stronger unlisted puppet ilevel stats than the older Divintator, the original "119" animator. I couldn't figure it out, but thought maybe it was something like adding Meva helped get about floored level, but didn't allow the pet to hit some sort of "tier" where players got more benefit from Meva buffs... But this still never really explained why there has obviously been a difference between pet Meva gear that should have been more or less equivalent to player Attune spell, while Vex fairly evidently helped both players and automatons roughly equally.

Well, it makes a heck of a lot more sense why that was now.

Interesting from the perspective of tanks (or any player in spell range who was benefiting from Attune) though, that they don't seem to be adjusting mob Macc downward or buffing Addle to compensate for the loss of utility we're going to see from Vex/Attune. Seems like they're taking steps to make the "nerf" less severe for players casting on mobs by improving other debuffs, but may be a straight up downgrade to Vex/Attune with no corresponding balancing efforts to help mitigate that.

I still think Frailty is a bit too powerful.
Bolster Idris Frailty => -83,6% defense
Idris Frailty => -41,8% defense
Bolster Dunna Frailty => -56,6%
Dunna Frailty => -28,3%

The goal is reaching PDIF cap, and with Frailty being so powerful it is too easy to do so, and this devaluates other forms of +attack.
Dunna values are fine, it's Idris' values that are a bit too high. As a way to "fix" this without making Dunna too much weaker I would do the following:

1) Boost -Def % base value at 900 skill from 14,8% to 20%
2) Reduce the % bonus you get for each point of "Geomancy+" from 2.7% per point to 1.8% per point

This will lead us to the following values:
Bolster Idris Frailty => -76% defense
Idris Frailty => -38% defense
Bolster Dunna Frailty => -58%
Dunna Frailty => -29%

This way Dunna Frailty is slightly stronger (almost the same) and Idris Frailty is weaker.
This will make it harder to reach the PDIF cap but nowhere near impossible, it would just make other sources of attack (Fury, Chaos Roll, Minuet, Honor March) more valuable.
I would also boost Minuet base values as follows:

1) Minuet 5 => from 79 to 85
2) Minuet 4 => from 73 to 79
3) Minuet 3 => from 65 to 71

With 3 minuets up, this would mean 18 more attack, furtherly multiplied by bonuses like Indi-Fury, Chaos Roll and Smite.
In addition to this let's not forget that BRD will soon receive at least another song+1, possibly song+2 as well. Worst case scenario that's gonna be another +12 attack to add to that +18.


I would like this scenario much more than the current one. I don't think it would make monsters undefeatable, it would just make other sources of +attack more valuable instead of irrelevant, as it is today pretty much.

I made a post above as to why it seems unlikely to me.
SE said once more that the values (numbers) in that page are correct, it's just the numbers in game that are not.
Following this, if Languor really was a %, it would mean -100% Meva without Bolster, that's crazy, that alone would make all other sources of Macc irrelevant and you would feel no difference with Bolster (-200%).
Instead we all know that we can feel that difference on several targets.

Hence, in my opinion, Languor cannot be a % based buff. It's just like SE said, it's higher than -100, but it's not -100%.


Another small thing that I noticed. Fujito's post reports a link to the Geomancy spell table.
But the link sends you to the "Enhancement Geomancy" buffs, not to the "Enfeebling Geomancy" buffs.
He could have put one or the other link, or he could've put both.
Instead he chose to put the enhancement geomancy page.

What does this tell us? It could be a coincidence of course, but to me this hints that the Geomancy bubbles that are affected by this "bug" could be just Focus and Attunement (Macc+, Meva+) and not Vex and Languor.

Focus values:
Idris Bolster Focus => +200
Idris Focus => +100
Dunna Bolster Focus => +100
Dunna Focus => +50

Now these values could be % based, why not?
+100% Macc would "only" double the macc you have from gear and skill and whatever else, it wouldn't make everything land with 0% resist rate like meva-100% would.

LOL 1 Month of Amby ppl requiring SMN and this guy thinks SMN is OP.

Yeah, totes whats going on. you got it.

If SE had simply added m.acc and m.eva to /checkparam instead of saying "its too hard, blah blah, too many exceptions, blah blah" - this would have been easily measured long ago.

SMN is actually OP people just sleep on it, and like most pet jobs, the majority of the people who play it are so shitty that you're better off not bringing them and at all.

Nothing. They didn't say a word about mdef, I have no idea why mdef-related considerations keep coming up in here.

Some pretty significant changes here. For this to be a true overall buff, and not a nerf at non-super-high Song+ values, the increase in the caps due to skill is going to have to be pretty darn huge. I hope SE doesn't screw this up.

Lets be real here. If they were able to botch the MNK "buff" (I use that term loosely I might add), they'll most likely botch this one too.

Well, that's a significant buff to BRD.

COR next?

Depending how it's implemented, that's potentially a pretty big nerf to honor march. March+1 hands provide a gigantic boost atm.

Don't see how anyone figures this could hurt BRD in any way. Song+ being 10% of the base puts it either on par or ahead of the current system for the higher end songs (aside from Marches), and that's before raising base values from skill. Honor March +1 today is the same as Honor March +5.33 under the new system, and we weren't getting more March+ without a change.

Obviously the full extent of the buffs could be disappointing, but surely people remember the buffs to Phantom Roll and Geomancy from 2-3 years ago or so? Those were generous as ***. Also Barataria Ring and Nepote Bell being common sellable drops off of WKRs gives me hope that All Songs+ stuff won't be that hard to get.

Except that the fact that it doesn't for march is a huge point, as it's a significant part of Bard's utility.

Carol also gets more than +10% per song+ right now.

Well true, but given how more "song+" gear is coming, surely you didn't expect things to stay as they are?

What matters to me is that:
1) the final result will be better than what the current maximum is
2) these new items won't be incredibly hard to obtain

I can't see them weakening Honor March. My question is whether or not they'll opt to significantly buff it... I doubt they'll go so far as to let you cap magic haste through Haste 1 and an unbuffed (no Marcato/SV) Honor March, but if they buff the baseline with capped skill such that you could hit 29% with Tenuto and Song+ gear then that'd be a nice little perk.

Would be nice if Minuet was a percentage or added before percentage buffs. In regards to balance I think we'll just need to wait and see because the skill adjustment is going to affect the overall balance. It's impossible to say at this point.

While yes it is overall slight buff to most the highest tier of songs it's often a slight nerf to the tier under and more to the ones under that. So in situations where you stacking the same songs of different tiers it's pretty meh.

That said it kind of makes me slightly hopeful in a roundabout way. One of the big complaints about strong brd buffs and one of the reasons behind the geo buffs of old was how brds could just stack a bazillion of songs and rotations were a thing while geo couldn't. Discouraging buff stacking on this makes it a little safer balance wise to buff the highest tiers more or add more +song

This is all tremendously hilarious because we all knew GEO was a cut above, even though it seemed deliberate.

Gg SE for balancing everything around a glitch.

RE: Vex/Attune. I've wondered the same.

PS: Play your game.

I wonder if these 2 items will actually be of use after the BRD changes.





I'm guessing no, but it seems those 2 items in particular were given very specific BRD-related stats that presumably were never even bothered with by most groups doing Aeonics.

They give an extra 20 accuracy/20 attack with the songs- they aren't amazingly compelling.

They also have terrible str/dex.

I hate, loathe, despise conditional gear. In hope it nevernever comes back.

And again, it'd only be a nerf for March (and March alone) if they just changed how Song+ worked without raising caps or adding gear. There's really no reason to panic.


Carol isn't on the +10% list. Actually, I'm not sure what the deal with the Carol bit is unless they meant Carol II.

the hands are useful

those hands have less acc than NQ Emicho, Adhemar, and Ryuo even with Madrigal

This is pretty lul worthy. Low sample sizes on the focus but going thru there numbers and math frazzle seemed to work as intended, fury worked normally (they seem to be checking to make sure no weird pt lvl difference hijinks) but mathing it out dunna focus only ended up giving around 5 macc