Minaras84 said: »
Dolichenus is a _great_ axe, but its tied to decimation only
Dolichenus is a 1H Axe, not a Great Axe!
(ba-dum, tssssh!)
Killer Instinct: The Beastmaster Compendium
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Killer Instinct: The Beastmaster Compendium
LIES! Dolichenus is a 1H Axe, not a Great Axe! (ba-dum, tssssh!)
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I'm glad someone made a counter point for dual wield and completely accept all of it. The thing I don't like about a DW cape for BST, even though I have one, is that means I'm not using a Null Shawl and I am very attached to the total stats of that piece. You'll have to figure out Fencer anyways for Gaol and the Null Shawl will have a home regardless so this is a both scenario instead of 1 over the other.
Which 2 or 3 offhands do you find you use most often and where do you use them? Hi Iocus, some great info there for new players, was wondering if you mind Sharing the kalunga / Ngai strategy’s please.
Minaras84 said: » Felgarr said: » Minaras84 said: » Pangu is another great axe, and in an ideal world you would have two, path A and Path B. The other axes are basically toys to have fun with, which is, in fact, the main reason why we play this game. Disclaimer: this is all imho and i'm sure i forgot alot of things but im tired of copying and paste urls lol Why no mention Path C Pangu, specifically? Has it fallen out of favor? Because instead of C i wrote B lol. I meant C, gotta edit the post A it's clearly an offensive axe, and it pulls out some good number. Dolichenus is a _great_ axe, but its tied to decimation only. For other ws Pangu A is the winner. Guttler and Tri-Edge are a joke really. Guttler is fun for darkness spam but i couldnt find any other use for it. Farsha is more interesting for the triple damage, and one can build a gear set around it, but when it comes to use a ws, the only one that pulls good numbers is Calamity. Then again, all of this is just my opinion, more than happy to agree to disagree. I was curious and hoping Tri-Edge would be a decent weapon, combined with fence. Or Magian axe for Mistral/calamity spam (+1750 TP Bonus on WS sounds nice). Or hell Tri-Edge+ Ikenga's R30 would give you a really solid TP Bonus and both weapons are ILVL. I'll have to screw with the calc later. It's definitely going to be a bit slower with TP gain I'm aiming for Pangu B/Mythic + Ikenga's myself though. I'm running out of Aeonics to make, so Tri-Edge is next for me. They aren't strats for beating Kalunga/Ngai. They are how you RP your gear after you've gotten the wins. You use Generous Arthur with a pet magic accuracy set and hit them with the 10% hp down ooze. Kalunga will take the debuff without issue at v25 if you have enough pet macc. Eating rolanberry difuku and engaging for tandem strike gives you a very decent boost. Kalunga can be done solo by using a reraiser pulling him off the top of the stairs, oozing him, and then dying so he will walk away and you can get up before the 3 minute timer. If your macc set is risky, not a great move.
For Ngai, you wait till he uses his aura move. At this point all tier 3s absorb their element including any debuffs that will land immediately. I don't think you need any macc to land ooze on Ngai under these conditions. You do however need to live long enough to get him to do that. I would recommend having other people attempt to do the 5% themselves on monk or another blunt job and keep the BST for insurance. The Bee and the Lion can also be oozed, but it requires unda runes and rayke from a RUN or a water based SC to burst it, or both dpeending on your gear level. People have used BST to get the win on Kalunga v25. Apparently the comp was RUN BLU BST COR BRD WHM. I have no details to share other than a testimonial
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Phoenix.Capuchin said: » DW is significantly faster TP generation than single wield General question if anyone has access to a sim (or can link me one and I will run it): What is the average speed to be able to TP for either, using best available gear for each set/sub and offhand. TP/round, avg seconds? DW as /nin: DW as /dnc + haste samba: SW as /dnc + haste samba: SW without sub: Don't include Kraken Club. Ok cool I’ll try it out. I have v20 atm I’m mlvl 47 with decent gear so hopefully it will land. I guess Ngai will be out of range for me for now.
so you say if i can SC the bee or lion with calamity —> Decimation (reverb) to MB oozed it might land? Would u mind sharing your pet macc set please. Thanks for the info currently gearing Sch to MB helix ongo so will be cool if I can gain more rp.
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Minaras84 said: » Weapon... make sure to get yourself a Naegling cause it's, unfortunately, one of the most powerful weapon in the game, for many one- handed classes. You will use it for both fencer (and i would go /drg) and dual wield ( /nin if group /dnc if solo) I guess it depends on what you're after. /drg gives you access to A little bit of accuracy and WSD trait, which pairs nicely with your Fencer TP Bonus traits. The jumps are irrelevant since Snarl exists, and even activating Jump once is effectively the same as swinging once. /WAR gives you 12% double attack and a little bit more attack via Berserk, which you can double-dip on with the correct pet. Another advantage of /WAR is being able to use Mafic Cudgel in Sheol C/Segs for Judgment, which is going to be higher WS damage numbers than any other resisted option you can use (Dagger is terrible on BST, though you can do 2x evisc in gleti's for OK numbers, but thats the only different damage type BST can use). Given that BST TPs slow, 12% DA from /WAR is not insignificant, and the extra attack doesn't hurt either. An idea to take advantage of the terrible Club skill BST has could be summoning Sheep pet for +50% attack for appropriate mob types (Aquans, Lamiae, Skeletons) and make good use of Snarl to avoid getting destroyed after you WS. Or hold TP until like 2000 then fire so you can guarantee you one-shot everything. You will have like no defense, so maybe that's not a smart idea if you don't like living on the edge like me, but the Lynx Pet offers a weaker bonus without the penalty. /NIN idk about this sub anymore. It's basically shadows (kinda useless) and the ease of being able to hit 11 dw. I don't see this sub as having any real pertinent value compared to other options. The time you take reapplying shadows is less time doing damage, and you have Snarl if you really need to shed bad hate at any point. Just don't see it's practicality anymore. /DNC gives you access to steps (even 1 is a bonus for whole group), waltzes (very underrated JA imo), a little accuracy, Reverse Flourish (can randomly use it in between running to camps in segs for free tp, for example), and Haste Samba. The only annoyance with /dnc is you have to re-apply Haste Samba very often. The advantage is you can use Null Shawl and get a better TP cape than JSE. Personally, /DNC offers way more than /NIN. Again, BST being a very slow-TP-generating job, I can't for certain say /drg is the way to go. For pure WS damage yes only looking at the numbers. But single wielding would definitely be faster as /dnc, and that might amount to higher WS damage over time. Reason why I asked the question above this to get hard numbers, because I am not convinced at /nin, but even /drg too the only real compromise with /dnc is the samba upkeep, long as you can cover that its a better sub for both DPS and utility for the reasons listed already compared to /nin.
Only reason id see you going /nin is for slightly more subtle blow if you wanted to keep feed low along with shadows if the target has anything that isnt just a wipe everything + dmg move already. According to sim (Naegling/TPbonus) you don't want to use 10dw cape anyway with either /nin or /dnc. Null is break even or has marginal gain over DW cape. I'm getting best result with Null cape and suppanomimi/Sherida earrings and being below 80% delay cap. Now /dnc seems to be break even with /nin even without haste samba and is significantly ahead with haste samba.
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Yeah, 350 TP for Haste Samba is not a huge investment every 90 seconds, but combined with the fact that BST gets TP slower than other jobs (unless using Kclub OH), I just despise the re-application. Especially in something like segs. It might not be anything of an issue to apply in Ambu or Sortie if you bring BST, but the fast-paced nature of Segs would irritate me having to keep that active. Also for the same reason why I hate the Tandem Strike bonus for Segs. You have to use "Fight" on every monster to get the extra accuracy, which is also lost dps. I have simply ignored this though, and just fought with a disengaged pet that gave me passive buffs.
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Fendarin007 said: » Ok cool I’ll try it out. I have v20 atm I’m mlvl 47 with decent gear so hopefully it will land. I guess Ngai will be out of range for me for now. so you say if i can SC the bee or lion with calamity —> Decimation (reverb) to MB oozed it might land? Would u mind sharing your pet macc set please. Thanks for the info currently gearing Sch to MB helix ongo so will be cool if I can gain more rp. Code sets.midcast.Pet.MagicAccReady = {ammo={ name="Hesperiidae", augments={'Path: A',}},
head="Nuk. Cabasset +3",
body="Nukumi Gausape +3",
hands="Nukumi Manoplas +3",
legs="Nukumi Quijotes +3",
feet={ name="Gleti's Boots", augments={'Path: A',}},
neck="Bst. Collar +2",
waist="Incarnation Sash",
left_ear="Enmerkar Earring",
right_ear={ name="Nukumi Earring +1", augments={'System: 1 ID: 1676 Val: 0','Accuracy+14','Mag. Acc.+14','Pet: "Dbl. Atk."+7',}},
left_ring="C. Palug Ring",
right_ring="Tali'ah Ring",
back={ name="Artio's Mantle", augments={'Pet: M.Acc.+20 Pet: M.Dmg.+20','Eva.+20 /Mag. Eva.+20','Pet: Mag. Acc.+10',}},
}Mainhand is Agwu's Axe. Yeah you can try making reverb, or even like cloudsplitterx2 so you can't miss making darkness. You get a little more tp back from physical WS if that helps you SC, go whichever way works. I want to say the Bee is easier than the Lion but I could be totally wrong about that and neither could land with only a SC consistently. If you want to know if it landed for Kalunga, you'll drop his hp to 99% when you auto attack him for tandem strike and then when it lands it will shoot back up to 100% because you just dropped his max HP to 89% but his currently HP will go back to his new max HP instead of what you already took off. Same thing thing club or dagger for the other 3. SimonSes said: » According to sim (Naegling/TPbonus) you don't want to use 10dw cape anyway with either /nin or /dnc. Null is break even or has marginal gain over DW cape. I'm getting best result with Null cape and suppanomimi/Sherida earrings and being below 80% delay cap. Now /dnc seems to be break even with /nin even without haste samba and is significantly ahead with haste samba. That's my experience in a nutshell. Lakshmi.Buukki said: » Yeah, 350 TP for Haste Samba is not a huge investment every 90 seconds, but combined with the fact that BST gets TP slower than other jobs (unless using Kclub OH), I just despise the re-application. Especially in something like segs. It might not be anything of an issue to apply in Ambu or Sortie if you bring BST, but the fast-paced nature of Segs would irritate me having to keep that active. Also for the same reason why I hate the Tandem Strike bonus for Segs. You have to use "Fight" on every monster to get the extra accuracy, which is also lost dps. I have simply ignored this though, and just fought with a disengaged pet that gave me passive buffs. Simon's statement lines up with my experience. I think haste samba is more appropriate in dynamis when you're fighting minibosses and red eyes. I also find that having to engage my pet is not attractive for fast content. Though I did forget about Tandem Strike's benefit for Kraken Club, so thanks for that.
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Phoenix.Iocus said: » I also find that having to engage my pet is not attractive for fast content. I would love it if BST was given a "Tandem" stance or something that forces their pet to behave how wyverns do. Automatically engages whatever you're fighting without the need to "Fight" and uses a TP move whenever you use a WS. You gain both "Tandem" bonuses instantly. Make the activation of a TP move similar to Sic to where the pet requires TP, make it require charges, and the move can be completely random, so that you're not abusing "Free" moves. If you don't want your pet behaving this way, you can always not use the move, so it doesn't break anything or hurt any current playstyles. But yeah, "Fight" is a horrible JA for fast-paced content.
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That or just give more pet-related jas(or more like steps/strats) the pup maneuver treatment
Lakshmi.Buukki said: » Minaras84 said: » Weapon... make sure to get yourself a Naegling cause it's, unfortunately, one of the most powerful weapon in the game, for many one- handed classes. You will use it for both fencer (and i would go /drg) and dual wield ( /nin if group /dnc if solo) I guess it depends on what you're after. /drg gives you access to A little bit of accuracy and WSD trait, which pairs nicely with your Fencer TP Bonus traits. The jumps are irrelevant since Snarl exists, and even activating Jump once is effectively the same as swinging once. /WAR gives you 12% double attack and a little bit more attack via Berserk, which you can double-dip on with the correct pet. Another advantage of /WAR is being able to use Mafic Cudgel in Sheol C/Segs for Judgment, which is going to be higher WS damage numbers than any other resisted option you can use (Dagger is terrible on BST, though you can do 2x evisc in gleti's for OK numbers, but thats the only different damage type BST can use). Given that BST TPs slow, 12% DA from /WAR is not insignificant, and the extra attack doesn't hurt either. An idea to take advantage of the terrible Club skill BST has could be summoning Sheep pet for +50% attack for appropriate mob types (Aquans, Lamiae, Skeletons) and make good use of Snarl to avoid getting destroyed after you WS. Or hold TP until like 2000 then fire so you can guarantee you one-shot everything. You will have like no defense, so maybe that's not a smart idea if you don't like living on the edge like me, but the Lynx Pet offers a weaker bonus without the penalty. I will have to look at /war again and test it again, because on paper (parse) going /drg instead of /war on KRT worms, /drg always came up first. Having Naegling as a main, that little bit of accuracy that subbing drg gives, is always welcome too. I don't know about axe tho, never tested it. Funnily enough, using Karambit in OdyC works (always as /nin or /dnc, thats where you get the h2h skill from), you just need to load ton of accu but a single asuran fist shot skellies on the last floor. This is assuming you run with both brd and cor. Lakshmi.Buukki said: » /NIN idk about this sub anymore. It's basically shadows (kinda useless) and the ease of being able to hit 11 dw. I don't see this sub as having any real pertinent value compared to other options. The time you take reapplying shadows is less time doing damage, and you have Snarl if you really need to shed bad hate at any point. Just don't see it's practicality anymore. /DNC gives you access to steps (even 1 is a bonus for whole group), waltzes (very underrated JA imo), a little accuracy, Reverse Flourish (can randomly use it in between running to camps in segs for free tp, for example), and Haste Samba. The only annoyance with /dnc is you have to re-apply Haste Samba very often. The advantage is you can use Null Shawl and get a better TP cape than JSE. Personally, /DNC offers way more than /NIN. Being utsusemi a spell, you can take :Ni cast time down by quite alot with fast cast, making it almost instant. Actually...while i'm here... does fast cast work with sambas waltzes etc? If we're talking about fast paced content, utsusemi can save you (unless we're talking about AoEs), by the time you finish casting curing waltz, which pulls more hate than utsusemi as well, you're dead. Having siad that, i will never go /nin on solo lol. P.s - Sechs...lol
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Minaras84 said: » I agree 100% that /dnc has a lot more to offer, but hitting DW 11 with /nin, means freeing at least 2 spots for other gear. Once again. It seems like it's not worth to go for DW st all, bedide one earring. The single wield/fencer build I'm playing with at the moment is Farsha/Sacro Bulwark.
Single wielding makes a bit more sense to me with empy, since that means every swing has a chance for Farsha AM proc. I like a crit-heavy set with a lot of Gleti - still working on balancing it to my liking with STP (i.e., Malignance), but since we're TPing fairly slowly anyway a crit + AM triple damage proc is meaningful. I know, I know... the usual arguments of "ewww white damage builds", but for this particular one I find it fun and pretty effective for stuff like Apex mobs. If I'm solo (or using my alt on a buff job + 4 trusts), I am loving Swooping Zhivago as my partner: Swooping Frenzy (Def-25%/MDef-25%, 2 charge) -> Cloudsplitter (light) -> Molting Plumage (tacks on a pretty good MB, just 1 charge) If fighting a mob with some defensive buffs up, will start off spending one charge to dispel with a Molting Plumage, wait a few seconds, then do the above SC. If dual wielding with Farsha, I sorta like Gerdr Belt +1 for that particular application. DW+4, STP+6, C.Rate+4%. Pair that with something like Suppanomimi for some additional DW. SimonSes said: » Minaras84 said: » I agree 100% that /dnc has a lot more to offer, but hitting DW 11 with /nin, means freeing at least 2 spots for other gear. Once again. It seems like it's not worth to go for DW st all, bedide one earring. The assumption is that Haste Samba has to be always up, correct? Phoenix.Capuchin said: » If I'm solo (or using my alt on a buff job + 4 trusts), I am loving Swooping Zhivago as my partner: Swooping Frenzy (Def-25%/MDef-25%, 2 charge) -> Cloudsplitter (light) -> Molting Plumage (tacks on a pretty good MB, just 1 charge) How do you find the numbers with cloudsplitter, including MB? Minaras84 said: » SimonSes said: » Minaras84 said: » I agree 100% that /dnc has a lot more to offer, but hitting DW 11 with /nin, means freeing at least 2 spots for other gear. Once again. It seems like it's not worth to go for DW st all, bedide one earring. The assumption is that Haste Samba has to be always up, correct? He specifically said SimonSes said: » I'm getting best result with Null cape and suppanomimi/Sherida earrings and being below 80% delay cap. Now /dnc seems to be break even with /nin even without haste samba and is significantly ahead with haste samba. SimonSes said: » Minaras84 said: » I agree 100% that /dnc has a lot more to offer, but hitting DW 11 with /nin, means freeing at least 2 spots for other gear. Once again. It seems like it's not worth to go for DW st all, bedide one earring. Suprising, and I'm not getting the same sim results using the Kastra sim (2025 Jan14 version). I am seeing the Suppa only set performing well (better than I would have expected, tbh), but in a few quick comparisons I'm getting pretty consistent results showing the DW cape coming out ahead. Tested with 5/5 Malignance TP set, a couple different mob choices (Apex Bat, Lugcrawler Hunter), and a few different weapon/WS combos (Aymur/Agwu w/ Primal Rend, Spalarisos/Ikenga with Blitz, Guttler/Agwu with Onslaught). For all of those: 1) DW Artio's Mantle + Sailfi+1 + Sherida/Telos 2) Null Shawl + Sailfi +1 + Sherida/Suppa 3) Null Shawl + Reiki Yotai + Sherida and Suppa or Eabani The DW+10 cape (and no other DW gear) appears to win fairly consistently over Suppa (and no other DW gear), whether /NIN or /DNC, Samba or not. /DNC with Haste Samba is the leader (but of course comes with needing to spend TP and JA delay to continually use Sambas) /NIN is next /DNC without Haste Samba is behind both Personally, I do usually find Samba maintenance pretty annoying, but it can be worthwhile especially if others in the party are also benefitting (e.g., you're partying with a Naegling WAR or something). Minaras84 said: » Phoenix.Capuchin said: » If I'm solo (or using my alt on a buff job + 4 trusts), I am loving Swooping Zhivago as my partner: Swooping Frenzy (Def-25%/MDef-25%, 2 charge) -> Cloudsplitter (light) -> Molting Plumage (tacks on a pretty good MB, just 1 charge) How do you find the numbers with cloudsplitter, including MB? By going and hitting the mobs? I was just doing some low stakes experimentation with Dho Gates Apex Crabs/Jagils and regularly seeing stuff like this:  Not shown, the initial Swooping Frenzy SC starter - but the damage from that is trivial (like a few thousand); Swooping's utility is in the defense down effects and SC starter Yes, I know those are fairly low level for "endgame" stuff, numbers will differ based on targets and their level/def/susceptibility to light/wind, etc. But it's a nice SC and MB, and the Def/Mdef- on Swooping Frenzy is aces for Cloudsplitter purposes. Edit: that was also solo w/ trusts only. Buffs/debuffs were Dia III from KoH and Joachim+Ulmia buffs (took Qultada off for his propensity to interrupt SCs, and I was away for most of the past week so lost access to Sylvie who I usually use XD). If you have a real BRD COR GEO whatever, can expect better results of course. I usually do, I have a second character with max buffs on all of those jobs. Just went out to Crawler's Nest [S] and brought my Idris GEO (the below I think had Indi-Malaise + BoG Geo-Frailty up, so WS numbers would have been higher with something like Acumen+Malaise - but was also tinkering with white damage with Farsha, hence the Frailty).
Similarly effective.   Phoenix.Capuchin said: » /DNC with Haste Samba is the leader (but of course comes with needing to spend TP and JA delay to continually use Sambas) /NIN is next /DNC without Haste Samba is behind both Personally, I do usually find Samba maintenance pretty annoying, but it can be worthwhile especially if others in the party are also benefitting (e.g., you're partying with a Naegling WAR or something). Yeah, this is kind of what i was expecting. I agree i find samba annoying hahah Phoenix.Capuchin said: » Wow, thats pretty good. I wasn't expecting Moltin Plumage to be that effective, very nice! Phoenix.Capuchin said: » Suprising, and I'm not getting the same sim results using the Kastra sim (2025 Jan14 version). I am seeing the Suppa only set performing well (better than I would have expected, tbh), but in a few quick comparisons I'm getting pretty consistent results showing the DW cape coming out ahead. Tested with 5/5 Malignance TP set, a couple different mob choices (Apex Bat, Lugcrawler Hunter), and a few different weapon/WS combos (Aymur/Agwu w/ Primal Rend, Spalarisos/Ikenga with Blitz, Guttler/Agwu with Onslaught). For all of those: 1) DW Artio's Mantle + Sailfi+1 + Sherida/Telos 2) Null Shawl + Sailfi +1 + Sherida/Suppa 3) Null Shawl + Reiki Yotai + Sherida and Suppa or Eabani The DW+10 cape (and no other DW gear) appears to win fairly consistently over Suppa (and no other DW gear), whether /NIN or /DNC, Samba or not. /DNC with Haste Samba is the leader (but of course comes with needing to spend TP and JA delay to continually use Sambas) /NIN is next /DNC without Haste Samba is behind both main="Naegling", sub="Fernagu", ranged=Empty, ammo="Coiste Bodhar", head="Malignance Chapeau", body="Gleti's Cuirass", hands="Malignance Gloves", legs="Gleti's Breeches", feet="Malignance Boots", neck="Anu Torque", waist="Sailfi Belt +1", ear1="Suppanomimi", ear2="Sherida Earring", ring1="Epona's Ring", ring2="Gere Ring", back="Null Shawl", This is the set, that I see marginally winning over anything else (DPS) in high buff scenario. Checked for Prime/Ikenga and getting slightly different results. /DNC without haste samba is behind /NIN, but only 2% behind Null with Sroda/Sherida earrings being 0.5% ahead of Null Suppa/Sherida. DW cape still marginally behind both with and without haste samba. For /NIN dw cape is marginally (up to 1%) ahead of Null. I would still wear Null. Changing to low buffs on Apex Bats seems to push dw cape vs null to be even more break even. Only thing that seems to change for TP set is Dedition earring instead of Sroda (loss of Samurai roll increase the relative value of store TP in gear). Phoenix.Capuchin said: » Personally, I do usually find Samba maintenance pretty annoying, but it can be worthwhile especially if others in the party are also benefitting (e.g., you're partying with a Naegling WAR or something). Any WAR, not just Naegling. WAR/SAM with hasso is still 1.25% below cap.
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Minaras84 said: » Wow, thats pretty good. I wasn't expecting Moltin Plumage to be that effective, very nice! I wouldn't call 10k magic burst with Idris Indi-Malaise "that effective". In fact I would call it very disappointing.. Was about to say but I didn't want to ruin Minaras' optimistic mood xD
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