BLM Enfeebling Question

Yeah, but my point is blm itself can be an essential job so you don't neccesarily want to sacrifice it for a rdm like you might do. And I dunno, sounds like you know a lotta blms that fail but that's another story, lol.

I dunno, I just see it as more of, it's not their job to begin with, I should be able to take care of myself without having to rely on some rdm/whm/brd to erase, na, whatever me. Not having grav won't kill me, being paralyzed when I need to sleep might kill me along with some other people.

And having whm go /blm for sleeps would be especially silly since they have repose.

Well I meant pre repose or for sleepga... also Ive know whm with more enfeebling skill then divine actually alot lol. As far as status go barelement+barstatus as damn near as good as just getting rid of it. Not having grav or other blms not having has killed me several times. Having blms think they should cure instead of finishing a mob off or casting something to restrict its movement has also. If blm is really needed well have them if rdm then well have that too. I play with people that generally either have a decent sized group or players with at least a few 75s... and frankly my rdm doesn't really lose much compare to rdm other than sleepga2 and higher tiered nukes

On a side note I think I need a dmg reduction maccro and gear for it... I gain hate too easy sometimes

Well, a lot of whm's never cast flash at all before repose so... lol.

As for grav, I can't really say I really need to grav much in xarc, there's generally too many mobs to bother with graving I find. And like I said, what about in cases where the mob can't be graved. Sometimes I feel like you're making it sound like I'm saying you should never /rdm. There are a lot of cases for /rdm, but there are also some cases where you want to /whm because you just don't get much from the /rdm.


I think this is the problem, you somehow assume that being /whm automatically makes a blm stupid or something. A blm/whm can nuke, they can bind, they can sleep, only thing they can't do is grav. The only thing making them cure instead of doing those other things is because of the person itself. And like I said, curing isn't even a major difference as /rdm and /whm curing is essentially the same thing except for curaga which is not THAT commonly used.

I dunno, lack of tier 4's and the free dmg from cat 1 merits takes away a bit of stopping power. And if you /sch that prevents you from having access to stuff like sleepga which may or may not be important. Sleepga's are especially nice to have any time you have to worry about sleeping anything more than 2 mobs which is... almost every pull in dynamis. But I think the rdm discussion is getting off topic again, lol.

Actually I find grav very nice on the eyes in xarc... and theres also fast cast and even dispel. And yes phalanx even comes in handy sometimes. And it isnt so much as /whm makes people cast cure and such as people tend to think about there options and use what they got. Its about focusing on something... and yes I know really good players it shouldnt matter... but lets face it will you always be with people like that?

Eyes I never saw as a huge problem as melees tend to rape the crap outta them pretty fast... I also tend to sleep first and nuke eyes second so I rarely have the issue of being the first nuke on an eye and having to run around with it. Bringing dispel into it is starting to get into the, it's not my job thing, because serious who's depending on a blm's dispel? lol Phalanx too... it's there, but it will seriously rarely make a difference, blm/rdm gets what, 18 dmg off naked? Can bump a little more off with gear, but in general it's not something you can rely on too much.

The thing is, the option to cure is still there /whm and /rdm. The only extra options you have are for stuff which is actually pretty important. Sure you can nuke/bind/grav when paralyzed, but you run the risk of the action being paralyzed and you're just as screwed anyways. If you don't erase that slow off yourself before a sleep, then the next time you need it, recast might not be up yet. You could even see the opposite case, some guy who should be nuking, is instead casting phalanx or dispelling a mob.

As for the good player thing, well, even among my LS, if there's someone that I don't trust as a player I generally won't do stuff with them outside of LS events, lol. In LS events, I just kind of pretend they're not there and don't rely on them, if they help they help, if not, well, I don't put myself in situations where I need them anyways, lol.

Wow Dasva your initial comment just blew me away, I can't believe a BLM actually wrote: "NEVER /whm ever!!!"

A good BLM should always sub whm in parties, except for a very select few situations (Manaburns, specific bcnm strategies, etc...). In most party situations, having extra members that can cast Erase, -na spells, Raise, Reraise or use Divine Seal is much more valuable than a few extra points of damage.

This is where you fail.

Every job has the same purpose. Do whatever it takes to get the job done in the quickest and most efficient way possible.

Your inability to understand this speaks to just how gimp your sorry *** really is. Tonight when I pray next to my bed, I'll be sure to remember to give thanks that your not on my server.

WoW so much fail.

No one is saying BLM should be a full time backup-healer, but to say that you should only be nuking/enfeebling is a joke.

There are many situations where casting cure 3 on your tank, one of your DD or even one of your support is far more important than casting a nuke or enfeeble.

Most fights are as simple as 'Tank dies => Everyone dies'. And when your tank is on the verge of death mid way through the fight what do you do? I guess you stun and wait for the wipe, then flame your RDM and WHM for being lame?

I would stun then cast cure 3 on my tank (even if the WHM and RDM have MP) simply because the win is worth more than my 46MP or my epeen pride. It is not uncommon for a healer to be busy (recasting stoneskin, or hasting/refreshing) when the Tank get hit hard, so having 1 more person throwing their cure into the mix can save the day.

Saying a BLM should never back up heal as they are only there to do damage is like saying that:
* SAM should never use Seigan as 'Hasso' is better
* DRK should use souleater whenever the timer is ready and for the full duration
* 2 Handed DD should always /SAM (see comment about Seigan vs Hasso above)
Etc

Being good any your job requires you know how to use every spell/JA/job trait to your advantage, and ignoring a whole line of spells is just failing at understanding your job.

Finally, a sensible player! I was beginning to think none existed anymore.

If you don't want to be a 'team player' then go ahead and be /rdm or /sch or whatever the hell you want and go exp or do ***solo; every party or group doing missions etc will be far better off without you. The last time I checked, this game was about team work. I sub or change jobs to suit the needs of my group, not gimp them up with my elitist viewpoints and cause us all to fail.

I can't count how many times having /whm sub has been beneficial to my groups while being on rdm or blm with another dedicated healer. A great example of this is with mobs that like to spam AoE debuffs which need to be erased; Having a /whm mage helps out the other mage SO MUCH when they have to erase 4 people and keep up the normal curing and buffing/enfeebling which is already on their plate.

/blacklist all Elitists

Aside from the pointless ranting in your post I was with you up to right here, where you degenerated into a babbling idiot. How the hell does being elitist correlate with /RDM onry?

Protip: it doesn't.

Kill this thread, the question was answered long before this subjob *** sprouted up.

i used to like /whm...but personally i prefer /rdm now. 1) It adds more DD capability to blm 2) You still get your cures 3) You still get snk/invis/SS/blink 4) Gravity 5) Fast cast

Now...to all the people saying blm should /whm so they can help keep the tank alive....tell a mnk to /whm so they can help cure...see if he joins the party or not (talking about xp situations...not endgame) or tell a sam the same thing because obviously keeping the tank alive is more important than dealing good damage and actually doing ur job.

Yes because DD/WHM is exactly the same as BLM/WHM... grab at those straws.

In some situations WHM is a viable sub for BLM.

It's not the optimum sub for performing BLM's primary goal (killing ***) but neither is RDM, as /SCH and /SMN give more INT.

1) BLM is a DD 2) /rdm gives access to fast cast allowing the blm to cast more spells faster =) but /sch is better i agree

You know who you remind me of? That dumbass awhile ago who was saying "RDM/RNG IS A FORCE TO BE RECONED WITH". Someone who just wont listen and thinks they're right no matter what.

Clicky for the lulz again

The main reason one does NOT want to sub whm over rdm in many group fights/events is for one spell. Stun

With /rdm you get the fast cast, and yes i know a blm/whm recast is only 2-3 sec longer, BUT when you /whm you do it so you can have RR, Divine Seal, -Na, Erase, Poisona, and Paralyna. If a blm/whm is next in the stun order and they are in the middle of casting something else then they have just missed there stun or more importantly what they were suppose to stun. It can be said that they should not cast when there turns up, but from experience when a someone is blm/whm they tend to play whm more and forget the blm part. Now if it's an event where they are not casting anything at all and only watching for what to stun then /whm is utterly useless and you would lose the fast cast trait.

BLM is very situational and very versatile, and what sub to use will vary on what event your going to do, AND a truly SKILLED blm will know when and where to use his/her subs.

If a BLM fails to stun when they are up in a stun order they should be fired. If you are in an event where a stun order is needed that should be the BLMs #1 priority. Everything else second. Fast Cast shouldn't have any bearing on Stun.

Stun has a recast of 45 seconds. With a group of 5 BLM thats 9 seconds between each stun to keep the rotation flowing. Stun is random and can wear immediately or last up to 5 seconds. Also added lag and reaction time of each individual player. Even with a group of 5 stunners I've never encountered a time where stun recast wasn't up.

BLM/WHM can play /WHM for 40/45 seconds in the stun order without problem. Once they see that the person before them is up they SHOULD be ready to hit theirs. It's just common sense.

Not everyone brings 5 blms to one fight... that being said if I really want stun for a fight I come rdm/drk and throw down stun every 23ish sec anyways and if something gets icky someone else does too

If you are doing an event fight that requires a stun order you do. 5 stunners is about the bare minimum I'd ever do a stun order with. One stun every 23 seconds is great... if you need one stun every 23 seconds. The normal reason for a stun order to keep the mobs "stun locked". You need stun up and ready to go as soon as the last one wears off. If all you are doing is stunning a -ga then sure 1 or 2 stunners is fine, but that is not what I'm talking about. As you mentioned, DRK or /DRK can also function as stunners.

Statistics aside it boils down to this. They pay for their game not you. If they want to come blm/rdm let them. If they want to come blm/whm let them. If they want to come blm/sch let them. If they want to come blm/drk let them....................in very very very few situtations. If they want to come blm/war let them but kick them from the shell.

umm what are you smoking? being that stun has a cast time of .5 seconds no sub or fast cast can even affect it's recast or cast time in any way shape or form that would be noticible at ALL.

If you have a blm/whm who is casting paralyna when they are next up for stun order. They are HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE and should be kicked from the LS. period.

Once again this boils down to not what subjob they have but a lack of player skill, i've seen plenty more blm/rdm miss stun order than blm/whm.

Mainly that is due to the large number of idiots who always sub rdm regardless of any possible situational advantage of /whm. Not to mention when there is a situational advantage a blm who recognizes this utility they could provide is also most likely not moronic enough to fail on something as simple as a lolstun order.

Surprised this thread is still going, I was clicked on Motokusun see if his/her page gave any more information about their avatar before I asked within a thread where it was from.

I decided to use this one after disagreeing with smurfo,

"no sub or fast cast can even affect it's recast or cast time in any way shape or form that would be noticible at ALL."

I believe you can feel the difference between sub rdm for stun and sub whm, sub rdm and stun you can start running in a direction as soon as youve pressed the macro, whereas sub whm not often. Not that running and stunning is needed much but to say "what are you smoking" lol and "no difference at all" is wrong.

I do agree with some blm/rdm dont look out for stun sometimes anymore than blm/whm and are more fussed about dmg and sorc ring. The blm/whm is more there to get thing done and the blm/rdm to make your mbs look big.

Mind you my 6 short weeks in HNM the only stun that I saw we missed was a blm/whm buffing party when it was his time for GOH.

Where is youre avatar from Motokusun? Incase it slipped your mind to tell by end of my post.

It's still going because you just necro-bumped it. c.c

Welcome to FFXI, most players are HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE and need 24/7 babysitting, hence why blm/rdm. But hey if your one of the few who don't need to be told what to do every repop, then ya go /whm, and pat yourself on the back.

Typical annoying reply from Enternius I see kinda reminiscient of your comment on your page lol.

This is in fact true. However, it's not that big of a increase in actual cast time. Recast is all you should be worried about anyway with stun. In order to lower it you should be equipping Walahra Turban, Swift Belt and if you have it Goliard Saio. That goes the same for Drain and Aspir also.

FACT.

Likewise here! ALmost had my eyes pop out at that comment.

And I couldn't agree with you more. /WHM has helped prevent my parties from certain doom on several occasions when the main healer ran out of MP, or if the mob silenced or poisoned the party faster than the main healer could cure. At several times, me and the WHM would agree on who we would look after for curing their stats. Heck, I even gave them all my weak T1 Regen in a certain order, since the WHM was too busy curing their stats.

There's really not much of a difference either way when it comes to BLM. Oh, nukes do 10-20 more damage with /RDM, woohoo. On the other hand, I have R1 with /WHM, which people are just going to refuse if there's a WHM or SCH present anyway, woo.

That being said, if a SCH ever subbed WHM, I'd have to hurt someone. Because in that situation it actually matters.

My understanding of the BLM's role in PT is nuke and help the main heal. I've always stated that I won't cure unless it's a nasty AoE and the WHM or RDM cures the tank while I heal everyone else. They are solely responsible for the tank unless they have a bit of time to help with the rest. If I had to help outside of curing, it'll be negating the status effects. If not fighting the mob and we're looking pretty hurt then it's my responsiblity to DS + curaga II while the main healer is resting.

Just like most of you that are pro-/whm, I gotta have that as a subjob for the reason for previous party failures I learned from in the past.

There's also the matter of auto-regen for Sorcerer's ring latent. I keep my HP Down to right at the point where I'm at the cut off for the latent. If I were to auto-regen a few ticks I'd come out of latent.