BLM Enfeebling Question

Why are they silly though? They're situations I run into on a fairly regular basis. Being slowed/bound and not being able to do anything about it can be pretty life threatening and asking someone else to do it might be too late (if that's even an option since in your world the blm pt would have all /rdm's in it).

Probably because Ive never been in a group with a blm in it that wasnt manaburn that didnt have a rdm brd and/or actual whm. And in manaburn well slowed is kinda lol most the time and bound is dealable usually.

How about in stuff like dynamis though? I'm normally one of the main sleepers and well, slow is like death for your sleep recasts, lol. Bind is also a good way to get raped. Most blm parties I'm in are normally just like 5 blms and a brd or maaaaybe 4 blms brd rdm and never with a whm. And like I said, asking a brd for erase is pretty much lol.

Actually with enough blms it shouldnt matter and really not much slows you. ALso the brds and rdms can sleep... not like it usually requires that many recast of sleepga

Although you are right, more people casting will negate any enfeebles on 1-2 players.

But there is 2 problems with that logic:
1. Most status effects are AOE in dynamis (Demons lover their AOE slow move etc)
2. 'Throw more people at it' is not a valid strategy for smaller shells.

I BLM/RDM to everything where I am not asked to change, but to say that you should never sub anything else is just wrong.

A good example is the HNM assaults (T10), you can only take 6 people, 1 needs to be a tank, a few need to be DD and the rest support.In that situation a BLM/WHM can nuke nearly as hard as a /RDM, but can also Poisons after Nerve Gas etc. This give you a party with effectively 1 tank 3 DD and 3 support (= 7 effective people).

The above example is very niche, but the same logic follows throughout the game. Where you are limited in number (either due to the event or due to a small group) /WHM allows you to fill 2 roles (albeit neither of them are filled perfectly) instead of just 1.

Xarcabard comes to mind since every mob there can slow you. That's actually the main zone I prefer to go /whm for, though paralyna for jeuno/beauc slimes is kinda nice too.

How many blms you got? lol. We normally only have 1 party of blms so 4-5 blms. Some people will get resists, some people will go kill eyes. Also, sleepga II is a nice spell which neither other two jobs has access to. Rdms are normally hasting/refreshing/curing, they can sleep but it takes away from their other duties while a blm not doing dmg is easily replaced by the melees smacking away. Brd, sleep's good, but only last 30 seconds, so you still want to overwrite with sleepga 2 or sleep 2.

Eyes in xarc also love to cast sleepga.

Yeah... idk our rdms seem pretty spot on about sleep nowadays. I know I do alot. Usually think we only got 1 pt or so. When I go rdm theres plenty of room for enfeebles.

That may be true, but every LS is different. I don't know how big your LS is, how many rdms, blms, etc... but that doesn't change the fact that for some groups, it is much more optimal to have at least some /whm than to just have them all /rdm.

Also, by your logic, shouldn't brds be subbing rdm too? After all, their main job is to be providing buffs via their songs and rdm fastcast helps them get songs up faster. /whm does absolute jack for that.

nope. Brds are general support sometimes that includes healing. And song speed matters alot less for them. Ive had many different sized ls for different things. Though generally speaking anything Ive done that needed real crowd control contained at least 2 pts worth of rdms blms and or brds... which has only been namis and einhienjhar... well guess you could count ANNM... however those kinda die fast and dont hit for rediculous amounts so a single blm who is /rdm and is prepared should be able to resleep

By that logic, blms are DDs that sometimes heal. It's not like brds have any natural healing ability other than lolpaeon.

And lately for us, we've been doing dynamis with like, 18 +- a few, so having two parties of blm,rdm,brds is not really feasible for us unless we plan on manaburning the zone, lol.

Your groups obviously do stupid ***, or they would make you become a better BLM.

Come talk to me again when you can solo all 3 Ix'Aerns. After you can solo pop and hold Temperance indefinitely. After you can solo the Kraken Club BC. Or after you solo Happy Caster. Or maybe solo NQ Behemoth. Solo Apollyon NW. Claim and hold Fafnir indefinitely with nothing but two PLDs and yourself on BLM. Or maybe after you've killed Prudence with nothing but a THF, a PLD, a RDM, and a BLM. Or maybe after soloing ZNM brass borer, anantaboga, wulgaru, or marid. Solo Operation Desert Swarm KSNM. Solo Come Into My Parlor. Solo Despot, Ullikummi, and Zipacna. Solo Garuda Prime. You can solo the rats in Arrapago Remnants for your Macha's Coat. Guess what, BLM can solo Brothers and Sheep in Antlions Clothing ENMs. Talk to me when you've done those too.

All of these are situations where a lone BLM can outshine anything a standard 6-man group could do. Yes, some of those fights require varying play styles, subjobs, gear, and a decent amount of meds. But they are no doubt possible. I've done most of those myself. A few of the others I've tried and lost, but have seen it done by other, better players.

The one thing they all have in common? NONE OF THEM FOCUS ON HOW HARD YOU NUKE. If that's all you're focused on, you will never be able to accomplish any of those tasks. You will continue to be an inferior BLM when compared to a player who takes into account all abilities of the job.

/em hands Sovereign a joint and remembers the good times...before Ethereal
/sadface
/slap

To very simply put an answer to the OP, elemental DoT are very useful in every situation bar any fight you intend to sleep/nuke, as well as every other enfeebling spell BLM has access to. As my good friend sov has stated, BLM is capable of many many things, and all of them may require a little different style of play than your average nuker is used to. Personally, i prefer /whm merely for the fact that i don't have to pay for reraise. Does that make me cheap? probably. Does it mean i can't perform adequately? Not at all. All viable subs for BLM have their place. How situational each one may be is not really the point.

Lol you take about groups doing stupid ***yet you ask about my solo ability that makes so little sense... Oh and I have done most of those. Everyone one of them Ive bother trying... and blm isnt the best job for most of them. And definitely not /whm. No my groups actually plan and bring whats necessary instead of gimping some people by making them do things other than there job. Specifically though I have solod some of hte Ix'mnk... havent really bother with the rest cause well dont really do sea. Also why I havent fought any sea gods. Have done NW though. All the ZNMs you describe are easier to do on rdm... but even on blm id rather do it /rdm even with them being semi easy to kite. ODS is weak people been soloing that forever. Same with all the prime avatars... and blm is one of the few jobs that can solo brothers... and its much much easier /rdm. Hell can it be done without gravity? Without Apradar your odds on sheep arent so hot... and would be pretty hard without gaiters. And I have already stated I dont do salvage... dont really do sky either but Id so bring rdm to that instead. And how hard you nuke always matters. Mp efficiency is pretty important and I seriously question some of those solos. And how much meds you used... hell if you looked at my profile youll see a sub 10min solo of up in arms where I was using alot of 70+ armor and no food or meds... its much easier on rdm btw

This topic is so derailed >.>

A wise man once said:

"You can't educate pork, only beat it"

BLM/WHM is useful, is good and is shouldn't be seen as gimp. Sure BLM/RDM is better where you are only interested in pure damage and damage is the BLMs sole reason to be there.

But what you fail to understand is; sometimes, in some situations being able to support with a few -na spells, erase, curaga or even raise is far more important that ~10-20 (the actual difference the INT will give you) damage per nuke.

Come back to me when you have try all the FL assaults as BLM/RDM and then we will see. You can't simply steam-roll them with people you need every one to do more than their normal just their primary role.

Of course always the come back after doing this... I actually did all but a couple as blm/rdm those 2 they though rdm/drk might be better... though ended up not being the case on one lol.

Back on topic of elemental dots :

http://www.ffxiah.com/item_sets.php?id=79072

= 150int build for level 75 suggested for mobs unlikely to resist.

http://www.ffxiah.com/item_sets.php?id=46078

= 100+ int build with ele skill gear suggested for mobs likely to resist.

On topic of support job I cant see why it took 3 pages to collectively reach conclusion that all support jobs have their advantages and disadvantages.

An in regards to the title of this thread ... http://www.ffxiah.com/item_sets.php?id=46045

just need aureole and cape :<

wow, I thought I would have a few more replyes when I woke up this morning, but 4 pages....lol. Thank's again for the help, and especially Tarowyn for the info on what I would have available at my level.

See I've went /whm 1-75 without someone mentioning that they wanted me to be /rdm.

Elemental DoTs were asked plenty of times to help "debuff" > DoT. Every little bit helps in a party. If a BLM doesn't do their job specific DoTs then they're not doing too well in the party, imo. Most people think a RDM or WHM suck if they don't cast slow or paralyze so it's a must for me to cast my appropriate DoTs at the start before I start nuking. 25mp for stat debuff and DoT does help more than what most people think. Race doesn't play a role on if it should be used or not. The races that don't have huge MP pool or not a whole lot of INT should still cast DoTs. 50-75MP isn't a whole lot of MP.

I was giving more examples of where you are just wrong about /WHM being gimp.

Sovereign gave you a list of places where your damage is NOT your primary goal and therefore /RDM loses its 'purpose'.

Sounds like you only do events where /RDM is viable and suitable, which is fine.

But you can't use your events and experiences to define how people who do salvage, low-man sky, jailers etc should play and the sub jobs they should use. You simply don't know what you are talking about as you don't do those events.

That's just the whole thing dude... to be a good BLM you need to be a well rounded BLM, have a large scope of experience in a multitude of events, party setups, and mob behaviors.

You, on the other hand, just simply admit that there are some events you just dont do. And others you will just bring RDM to because it's easier.

This is a BLM discussion, not a RDM discussion. For the purposes of this conversation, your RDM and the 18 other available jobs have no bearing whatsoever. So stating that you would "just go as RDM instead" shows you don't know exactly what BLM is truly capable of, or how BEST to play BLM.

Just refresh all those still bitching about "You suck at BLM cause you can't solo NMs".

Most of the posts on this page is waaay off the discussion. This isn't just about BLM, but more specific to what spells and what's the "norm" to playing BLM in a party besides nuking.

All this talk about endgame and being "well-rounded" has nothing to do with OP's original questions.

BTW, stick to /whm for party. It'll add more function to being in a party.

^This

I'm just trying to debunk misinformation so that new BLMs dont stick to an incorrect methodology.

Simple fact, there is more to BLM than just nuking. Experience will prove that to you many times over.

because of that, your choice of subjobs and gear will forever be situational, as they will need to best suit your target goal, and lend themselves to varying party setups and battle strategies.

Saying otherwise (i.e., one best subjob for everything, only bother with nuke gear setups, etc) is wrong and should be corrected by anyone looking to play BLM to the maximum of it's ability.

Nope it just shows that I understand that you should bring the best job for the situation instead of an ok one and making it do things arent in its strong suit... but go ahead forcing things and dealing with substandard results just so you can epeen about how you did it on blm instead of another job

I guess you just dont understand that BLM is stronger than you make it out to be.

Hope you're content as a mediocre player, as your mindset wont allow you to progress further than that.

Many people have commented and or bashed on the use of multiple subs for Blm, and I would like to share a lil knowledge i have picked up after 4 years of playing BLM in almost all events.

Leveling 1-75: There are basically 3 ways to do this.
1- Regular xp pt's. /whm is the best sub for this simply because you are going to be playing mainly as a healer/debuffer with the accasional nuke.
2- Solo. This will be the quickest way to lvl for the majority of Blm's lvl 50+. From 50 to the early/mid 60's it is all about the /rdm sub for the extra int to push AM's into 1-shot mode. Depending on your race/gears you will no longer be able to 1-shot in the early/mid 60's, and should then use /nin for survivavability.
3- Manaburns. you wont have this option till post 50, but most burns are in 70's. I have used /brd for ballad, /nin for survivability, /whm rarely for raises and assisted cures, and /rdm for max damage and overall better performance resulting in more Xp/Hr.

Sky: In sky i mainly would use /rdm. I use /nin for despot and zip low man, and i only use /whm when doing byakkos and seiryus.

Sea: I only use /rdm in sea for same reasons stated earlier. I have tried /nin on JoL but didn't find it to be any better on babies then SS+Blink+Phalanx

Dynamis: I only use /rdm in dynamo so i can have Fast Cast, Gravity, phalanx, and the extra few int to help my enfeebles/sleeps land. I can't even tell you how many times ive lived instead of dieing because i had those. A dead blm is a worthless blm, alive i can help control the flow. (FYI i usually do a low-man run of 12ish)
I will also note that /whm can have its place, but usually its to just help raise in the event of a wipe.

Limbus: I also only use /rdm in limbo for same reasons as dynamo. I however only use BLM for a few zones, main on NW Apollyon.

Assault: If i actually do take a blm into assault its cause i have to nuke/solo mobs, so i mainly use /rdm here as well. Suppose if i was to take BLM into T10 assault i would use /whm, but when i did them i didn't use BLM.

Salvage: I don't play BLM in salvage, but the ones who do use /whm if going after chariots or /rdm if we doing slot/rampart farming.

Just my 2gil for the above post. Lv.56-68 I'd suggest /whm for solo as you have access to stoneskin. You might not one shot everything, but you'll survive a resisted nuke. 68+ /rdm

Here is an example of a situation were being the right sub means the difference between winning and losing. This just happened today and it absolutely made my week. The Following is the story of todays events but more then that it gives some insight into the BLM subjob debate.

So i just got done doing 7 hours of augmented weapons in Grauberg [S] as a 75BLM/37RDM. We only had one death (me) from hitting a 1800MB during its 75%~100% phase.

Anyways, after a few runs another party showed up. On there turn they did the normal TP up, Buff up, BLM pops ES same time PLD initiates the fight, BLM does his sleepga2 and there off to the races. The two Wivres still sleeping wake up and run towards the BLM, as soon as they got in range of him to cast he started casting Sleepga2, and then /SLICE, that BLM got cut, and cut hard. Less then 60 seconds later everyone else was taking a nap in the dirt.

Oh and if you haven't guessed yet this BLM was /whm, and by being /whm he didn't have the Fast Cast trait that would of made the difference. (btw he had SS+Blink on, 1 hit to SS+23dmg to interupt, then blink took 2 hits, and then was worm food)

After our next flawless/boring battle they went again with exact same strategy AND the exact same end. Was amazing to watch someone lose something EXACTLY the same way twice in a row.

One more flawless/boring battle for us and they try again, but this time the RDM/whm changed to RDM/blm. Started the fight normal, ES sleepga2, and once the 2 remaining woke the RDM/blm did an ES sleepga1. At the same time one of there DD's died cause RDM was focussed on the BLM's job while the BLM was kiting to stay alive. Needless to say they got themselves there third wipe in a row.

At this point you would think they would either give up OR get the correct BLM for the job. To my parties enjoyment they proceeded to go back to original setup (BLM/whm and RDM/whm). Yet another normal start to the battle, and for a third time the BLM got /CUT on his recast of sleepga2 just like the first two attempts.

Add 1 more win to my parties scorecard and they have come back with the BLM/whm *STILL!?* and the RDM has busted out the /blm sub yet again. But this time the RDM/blm starts with ES sleepga1. There 2 DD were just killing the first Wivre when the other three woke from there 45 second sleep at which point the BLM/whm uses ES -> sleepga2, however the sleep landed just after the RDM/blm got /MURDERFACED. With no cures except from a BLM/whm who ALSO had 2 wivres sleapt, the DD died, then the BLM/whm, and finally the PLD died, and with that they all completed there fifth Augment charge, but better yet there fifth wipe in a row.

At this point me, my party, and my ls are all just shedding tears of laughter for the utter incompetance we were lucky enough to witness, not once, nor twice, but FIVE times, one after another. All because of 1 person using the wrong sub on a job that has little to no room for error.

Your right /whm is a good alternative to /nin for these levels. Specially as it gives you a free RR. However for my personal soloing style i adopted /nin was better. But i have known alot of BLM that used /whm instead and very effectively.