(Does) Occ. Absorbs Magic Damage (stack)?

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(Does) Occ. Absorbs Magic Damage (stack)?
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By Felgarr 2024-03-27 21:44:30
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Asura.Sechs said: »
Valefor.Prothescar said: »
-I still don't know for sure if it's + or x lol. Could be either one within margin of error and I'd need to get more samples to know for sure, but...
Barspells and Carol effects are pretty similar. Element specific, both nullify the damage (not absorb).

There's not many other items that can annul magic damage in game.
Ajax+1, and that's it? And you don't really use that in current-day scenarios.
Well there's Founder's Breastplate and Srivatsa, but they annul all damage (not specifically magic) and I wouldn't say they're particularly relevant either nowadays.

Shadow Ring, being a slightly different effect from the Carol/Barspell one, probably is a separate check? Altough still subject to the max 40% cap that you found out, and that's what really matters I guess.
Shame you can't reach the 40% cap with just carol and barspell.


Weeeeeeell... Technically you can, with Soulvoice.
You go from 27% rate to 54% 40%.
Which personally perfectly matches with my experience.
On a hunch, without ever parsing, I always had the feeling that the annul rate with SV wasn't double as much the basic one, and thanks to Prothescar's test now we know exactly why.



@Felgarr
Archon is not relevant for this test because its rate of damage annulation only happens when the incoming damage would deal more than a certain % (85%?) of your health.
It's SEVERE magic damage, not plain magic damage.

Yeah, I'm aware of that difference. I didn't know it was 85% of your health (or if it was some other value that would kill you, had Archon not been active). I mean, he did say this set was to prevent getting floored by vivisection, so I don't see why you wouldn't include SEVERE damage mitigation too.
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 Quetzalcoatl.Tomasello
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By Quetzalcoatl.Tomasello 2024-05-02 12:25:20
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Quetzalcoatl.Waffless said: »
You didn't ask but BG lists shadow ring as 13%

Ragnarok.Martel said: »
Shadow ring is good. It's got a surprisingly high proc rate(13%.)

Valefor.Prothescar said: »
Shadow Ring is 12%, not 13%.

Quetzalcoatl.Kainstryder said: »
Also, Shadow Ring is 12%, according to the JP guide book and wiki.

Shadow Mantle proc rate is 1/16. Shadow Ring proc rate is 1/8.

It just feels right to me. To hell with your testing... You forum nerds overthink everything.
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By Dodik 2024-05-02 12:59:37
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1/8 so 12.5%.

They were both wrong or slightly not right.
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By Bahamut.Zedoma 2024-05-02 13:27:30
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Slighly off topic, anyone have first hand experience with the Abyssea elemental sachets? Using a shadow sachet on my Aminon tanking set and i've noticed that when the proc has triggered it has always been 0 damage absorbed. Counter to how warders and empy gear behave.
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By Quetzalcoatl.Tomasello 2024-05-02 15:14:06
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Dodik said: »
1/8 so 12.5%.

They were both wrong or slightly not right.

It just fits the pattern so nicely from the mantle testing as well:

https://www.bluegartr.com/threads/88580-Shadow-Mantle-Proc-Rate

The simplest answer is usually the correct one imo.
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By Quetzalcoatl.Tomasello 2024-05-02 16:35:33
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Bahamut.Zedoma said: »
Slighly off topic, anyone have first hand experience with the Abyssea elemental sachets? Using a shadow sachet on my Aminon tanking set and i've noticed that when the proc has triggered it has always been 0 damage absorbed. Counter to how warders and empy gear behave.

Maybe because you are already at 100% hp from not taking DMG?
 Valefor.Prothescar
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2024-05-02 16:54:00
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>"you forum nerds overthink everything"

>proceeds to use a test from another forum as evidence

lmao, room temp IQ

My test shows clearly 12% (which already had over triple the samples of Kirchy's original one, i've since expanded the sample size to over 6k with the same results [736/6157, 11.95%]). Stay mad.
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By Quetzalcoatl.Tomasello 2024-05-02 17:33:20
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Valefor.Prothescar said: »
>"you forum nerds overthink everything"

>proceeds to use a test from another forum as evidence

lmao, room temp IQ

My test shows clearly 12% (which already had over triple the samples of Kirchy's original one, i've since expanded the sample size to over 6k with the same results [736/6157, 11.95%]). Stay mad.

That was for the mantle not the ring...

If you can't even bother to read, who would rely on your testing?

Stay informed.
 Valefor.Prothescar
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2024-05-02 17:35:26
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*** you outright quoted figures specifically for the ring and then said that the testing for the mantle "fits the pattern" for the ring, the same post of which also claims your 1/8 figure lmao
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By Quetzalcoatl.Tomasello 2024-05-02 17:41:16
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Valefor.Prothescar said: »
Carol II, Barspell, Shadow Ring
Spike Hits: 3609
0 Damage Spike Hits: 1515
% Nullified: 41.98%
Expected %: 49%, 56.65%, or 53.44%

Valefor.Prothescar said: »
-Nullification rate probably caps at or around 40%.

Clearly your margin of error is quite high....
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2024-05-02 17:42:27
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Not sure why you're using completely unrelated numbers to try to strawman but it's not going to work. You also have no idea what a confidence interval is. End of the day, just because you choose to be ignorant doesn't mean everyone else has to be.
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By Quetzalcoatl.Tomasello 2024-05-02 17:43:57
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Valefor.Prothescar said: »
Not sure why you're using completely unrelated numbers to try to strawman but it's not going to work. You also have no idea what a confidence interval is. End of the day, just because you choose to be ignorant doesn't mean everyone else has to be.

Neither do you if your faulty testing won't include the possibility that 1/8 fails within yours.
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2024-05-02 17:45:11
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Guy's using decades old testing (which he didn't even do) with unlisted methodology (unclear how they parsed out the 0s from the damaging hits, if by hand that leaves a significant room for error) as the basis for his claims and is talking about "faulty testing". My sides. Still doesn't know how basic statistics work
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By Quetzalcoatl.Tomasello 2024-05-02 17:46:22
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Stay mad.
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By Taint 2024-05-02 18:34:07
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Bahamut.Zedoma said: »
Slighly off topic, anyone have first hand experience with the Abyssea elemental sachets? Using a shadow sachet on my Aminon tanking set and i've noticed that when the proc has triggered it has always been 0 damage absorbed. Counter to how warders and empy gear behave.


Your MDB set/JAs combined with Dark+10 resist probably floored the hit to 0. So even though you absorbed he would have hit you for 0 regardless.

My best guess.
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2024-05-02 18:39:39
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'Absorb damage' basically ignores all of your defenses. Only the bare essentials like pDIF still matter which wouldn't mean anything here
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By Taint 2024-05-02 18:42:19
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Valefor.Prothescar said: »
'Absorb damage' basically ignores all of your defenses. Only the bare essentials like pDIF still matter which wouldn't mean anything here

Good point...I have no explanation then.
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2024-05-02 18:43:28
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Can't absorb for more than your missing HP amount so probably just that. Absorbing for 0 is a good thing anyway since it means he still didn't get TP for hitting you despite the absorb proc. Normally, if your absorb heals you for anything, he will still gain TP for the hit as normal.
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By Bahamut.Zedoma 2024-05-02 18:52:06
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The reason I bring this up is because we know warders and empy gear absorption occurs at the forefront of damage calculations. Why we notice such large spikes of damage being absorbed. Of course, I only have anecdotal evidence but it would seem that the sachets absorb is taking place at the end of damage calculations.
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2024-05-02 18:57:10
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Would be unusual for them to deviate from all the other absorb pieces and have their own unique stat but not impossible I guess. You're sure you were missing HP at the time of absorb?
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By Bahamut.Zedoma 2024-05-02 19:02:05
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Would be possible they are different as the term damage taken is not on them just damage.

That's a really good point on the not missing HP, rdm in my group keeps Regen2 refreshed on the whole party. I will ask them hold off on doing so for the next couple runs.