Rogue's Vest +1 (THF WS Gear)

Right now I've been using this (AF+1 Body and Dusk Legs) for my WS (pretty much DE only) set and don't notice any change from this (DH and Pln. Legs) which I used to use.

I got Dusk for my Ranged set and had nothing to do with THF items from Limbus so I figured body might be good.. mini Heca.. -.- Also, finished my STR merits and picked up Forager's.

Using the first set I have slightly more Att/Acc/STR so I thought it would help for when not using SA/TA so I went ahead and used em.

I use the second set with SA/TA for the mods and it keeps my STR and Acc up some, compared to the first set.

The stats are about the same for each set:
STR 70+38
DEX 73+23
Att 471

STR 70+35
DEX 73+29
Att 465

So, yea I know just swapping the two items wont really make much difference but since I have em feels like I should put them to use.. but the thing is that I really see no difference in whichever of the 4 items I use, in any combination.

Could even use Af+1 Body and Pln legs, adding my merits/cape, that's STR+12 and doesn't seem to matter..

I've also bought a Thunder Ring and tried using my Ohat (to add more mods or acc) but nothing seems to matter.

Just looking for suggestions on what combination of things will keep getting the higher average even if just a little bit higher or pointers on any of the slots really..

NO

Don't quote me, I'm not a THF, however I am a DNC, and I believe STR does nothing for Dancing Edge, if that's the only WS you're using. It's DEX and CHR, and no real reason to load up on CHR so sticking to more accuracy (since it's a multi-hit WS, and the more hits that land the better), and DEX is really what would help you.

I don't know much about the 'math' behind WS etc since I mostly play mage but..

The way I've been told is that STR matters in all WS even if it's not a mod for it. Your STR is still calculated vs mob VIT(?) to determine a "base" for damage calculations.. or something..

^ Is why RNG stack STR over AGI for Sidewinder even though the mods are STR:16%; AGI:25%.. or something..

This is why I need help :\

I can't tell you the math, haha. I'm for one, bad at math, and two for the most part a mage myself the exception being DNC. I do know that Accuracy is the most important "stat" for landing a multi-hit WS though.

Edit: I'M ALSO NOT SMARTER THAN A 5TH GRADER THANKS FOR RUBBING IT IN! D:<

Quit listening to idiots. seriously. there is a website that exists that has pretty much EVERYTHING YOUR HEART could desire to know. It's called ffxiclopedia.org. Look up every dagger weapon skill relevant to thief. You'll also notice that thiefs two biggest stat attributes to its job is dex and agi. This is not a mistake, thief gear, thief ws, and sa/ta mods are all dex and agi for a reason. stack dex and agi and ditch the str and you'll see a huge difference in your dmg. here is what you should focus on even in ws macros for thf: attack, accuracy (very important for multi hits like dancing edge) dex, agi, hell maybe stack chr for DE since its dex and chr like someone posted above. I ***you not, str is pretty useless for thf unless you have a mandau. I think its safe to assume you don't have one. I hope this helped, sorry i sound like a ***, i just thought players stopped wearing str rings as thf after the dunes. god i miss my 75 thf elvaan lol.

Str always matters till you hit fstr caps. Which on daggers is kinda low. Acc isnt necessarily the most important stat. You probably should ws in near acc cap regardless only different with multihit is each hit is seperate so the combine odds get worse and worse of hitting all hits. Which will make your dmg look more conisistently less. Multi hit ws only count tp mods on first hit so stat mods str and attack or more important. For thf attack is actually often really important due to there normallly low attack rating.
That being said Id still stack dex for even solo DE over a similar amount of str or attack. As far as this op is concerned both bodies though DH is one of the best easy to bodies and legs are kinda meh. I use enkidu legs and and acp body with 10acc/10att.

Oh and response to higher guy depends on what you fighing but yes relic has higher fstr caps as does Pharpe

Wiki lists a lot of things yes.. it doesn't explain a lot as well.

I want to know why on THF that STR doesn't matter as much as other jobs (besides it being a WS mod.. I know that is not the only reason) etc..

Is str a ws mod for blms with staff ws? str is used for alot of ws as a mod, but its not the golden rule. Your problem is you asked everyone who either a. believed str was the golden rule for ws, or b. are nin, mnk, drg, sam, war, drk. in which case str is either a mod or the Most important mod on their ws like samurai, 75% str mod on gekko, kasha, and yukakazi

Its not thf so much as daggers... or more importantly lower base dmg weapons have lower fstr. Stat mods appear to have no cap while fstr does. Now some ws actually have str as a stat mod too like sam ones... so its really important
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/FSTR
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Weapon_Rank

ty for -explaining- what you said :)

I didn't know thf fstr caps low nor that mods are applied to mulit-hit like that.

Kinda like how I said "str is pretty much useless for thf" because who after the dunes still uses a sword unless its a ridill? so basically take what I said, and what dasva brilliantly explained and you pretty much have your answers. now go forth and be a good thf!

That being said some str does matter... if I remember right though you cap at like 100ish on birds... not exactly hard to do. Unless you get like pharp/mandau less I think if you use something lower base dmg like blau since fstr caps are based on non latent dmg rating.

Mercy strokes is also 50% str modded with no other stat mods... which also makes str even more important on top of the higher fstr caps

you have a killer setup.

as far as the question on str vs dex and agi for thf....

in regards to DE and EV, if you stack these with sa or ta, dex will win out because it mods not only the ws itself, but the job ability as well. so dex is gonna boost sneak attack and the dmg from the weapon skill. even on trick attack dex will win out because it is still mod'in the ws itself. Str in thf ws is good, but on amultihit ws for thf the stats usually go in this importance, depending on setup.

Acc/atk/dex/str/chr for SA DE

Acc/atk/dex/agi/str/chr for TA DE.

notice here i put dex over agi, because dex boosts not only DE as a mod, but also improves your crit rate and accuracy as well. agi boosts the TA itself, but does nothing for the rest of the ws.

In Evisc, since the primary mod is dex, it will win out over str and agi any time, so even on ta i would stack dex, it gets me better numbers. plus the fact that this ws has the chance to crit depending on tp, the extra dex is upping that chance to have those crits, which will give you bigger numbers.

you could break it down into specific numbers, but with the setup you have, heca plus str merits, your well equipped with str as to where dex/acc/atk is gonna give you bigger numbers.

for acc, try to shoot around 390 on birds, for ws and tp.

atk i try to shoot for around 500 on birds, but i never get there. its just a number to shoot for.

i would go for the acc mark first, since if you can hit that, meat is going to do more for your dot than acc food will.

now when it comes to str, for tp, the only way its going to make a difference is if you can break a str tier and get that one extra dmg per swing. im not sure exactly, but adding about 4-5 str is going to give you one extra point per swing. play around with some calculators and see if that lil extra str is going to get you that one extra point per swing. thats the one time i look at str on thf. now dont get me wrong, if i can stack it in my ws gear, im gonna do it. hecatomb is great cause it adds str and dex, rajas is awesome, i use voyagers sallet over assassins bonnet. 1 dex for 3 str is a good trade off.

as for the pants, dusk pants add ALOT of atk, i use them in my ws gear over pahl pants. look at it as str+3 4 acc compared to 14 atk. if your acc is doing bad then look into some other slots to make up for it, such as... culch mantle or... possibly upgrading the new anwig salade with +10 acc and +15 ws acc. the +14 atk on pants is going to add a nice chunk of dmg to your ws. i personally use it unless i could get heca legs or oily trousers.

does that make sense? i feel like im rambling lol.

ninja edit: DH will win out over Rogue vest +1. in the long run, DH will net you more dot than rogue +1. next time you get the items for thf upgrade, GET THE HANDS. it adds 15% agi to your trick atk. best +1 piece for thf hands down, aha pun.

oh, and also, the new acp piece is a contender for ws gear as well.

thf is for th

FAIL

KNOW YOUR PLACE!

So much misinformation in this thread!



Nononono. Until the point at which fSTR is capped, STR is HUGE for THF damage.



WSC is all hits! fTP is the only unique term to the first hit, along with acc/pdif bonuses (unverified in detail).



With that gear, it's no surprise you think that frankly. Don't talk down about a job if you're not good at it, THF has enough of a bad stigma around it.

Astronym is correct in most of his points.

In raw damage, DH will win on all relevant WSs that aren't Mercy Stroke. However, Rogue's Vest +1 offers a large accuracy bonus which may make it win out depending on your build.

The Vest +1 is a very powerful TP piece amusingly, best you can get until Mirke/Homam/Enkidu etc.

But yeah, get AF+1 hands asap.

ty raen, i just ignored the th poke lol.

ya its hard to answer the question without the complete picture, ie tp setup, ws setup, food, mob, etc.

on birds, i never get under 1k for a sade or tade, on the high end ive gotten up to 1.8k.

my new thing i want to tackle is mamools. my ls likes to merit on them and on thf i break 1k alot but sit at arounf 800 to 900 per ws, which makes me :(

Relating to thread topic: It's a cheap alternative until you're able to get Heca harness.

I wouldn't worry about mamools too much; most DDs have WSs that hover around there so it's no problem, and most of your damage is coming from DoT anyway :p

I'd save Feint for Lurkers and use Mandalic Stab on them if possible, been awhile since I meritted on mamool though :(

to arte: the only ws it would be good for is mercy stroke, but even then im not sure.

raen: ya theres only one lurker at the upper mamool camp and he gets feint every time.

to op: in summary, DH beats the +1 body. dusk beats the pahl legs. if you are having acc issues, then make up the difference in other gear, or food.

and next time, get the haaaaands! lol.

lol i smn burnt my thf for farming.. the rings i have are for my sam, .. never used thf for anything but th like i said :D

Which makes you a really good judge :)

Didn't read everything in the thread, but for those of you who were wondering, At 75, STR and DEX will add about the same amount of DMG+ as one another when it comes to UNSTACKED WS. When it comes to SA, then dex just blows str out of the water. That being said, dex is still better than str on unstacked because even though you get about the same DMG+, you get acc+ from dex and attack+ from str. Acc > attack so yea.

:D

Everyone pretty much has the right idea, but I do want to clarify one thing.



DE can't crit. Only WSs that specifically say "Deals Critical damage" or "Critical hit rate varies with TP" can crit. (i.e. Jin, Rampage, Backhand Blow, etcetcetc)