The Last Dance II: The Show Must Go On

I was not aware it was possible for Windower to distinguish between Haste and Haste II.

It can't. I make assumptions like "If Koru-Moru or Arciela are in party, it's Haste II". And I have a toggle for switching between Haste tiers for when it's not clear.

If I ever feel like cleaning up my files, I will post them. As is, they'd cause eye cancer everywhere, which is bad.

Dumb question, in both Skudo's and Byrth's DPS sheets, Atoyac's OAT field shows ### for me. When I select it, it displays 40%, but I was wondering if this is normal, something broken, or something I personally broke?

Echoing this question; it seems bizarre that Atoyac would lose so handily while factoring in the OAT, and if it's working I'd think Blurred +1 would destroy everything.

The ### just show that the content in the cell is wider than the actual cell width is: It's 40.00% instead of 40%. The actual number of average hits per attack round is calculated correctly though. Maybe I'll fix those ### "issues" when I update the spreadsheet with 1000-3000 TP.

tl;dr: The effect of OA2 is over-eyeballed by a huge margin; all our multi-attacks make that OA2+40% end up in a lacklustre increase of swings.

Main reasons for Atoyac falling behind Nibiru Knife are:

* A *** of multi-attack that can proc before OA2.
* Delay.
* DMG, fSTR, and WSC.

The effect of OA2 is not as big in setups with a lot of multi-attack. Assuming 2% QA, 16% TA, and 30% DA, we have 1.62 swings per hand per round without OA2 off-hand. That's 3.24 swings per attack round. OA2 off-hand adds 0.23 swings to the off-hand only, so you have 3.47 swings, having 7.4% more swings per attack round. So far, so good; a lot of our damage now is in WSs, anyway.

To simplify things, I'll just count the average number of swings per second, i. e. the numbers above / delay. 2x Nibiru then has its floored delay at 1.22 seconds (73.2 delay), which means 2.66 hits per second. Nibiru + Atoyac sits at 1.28 seconds (76.6 delay), which means 2.71 hits per second. Speaking in terms of relative increase, that's a 2% increase in swings per second.

So far, without even looking at damage at all, Nibiru + Atoyac is 2% ahead. Factor in much larger WS damage, especially for Pyrrhic Kleos, as well as more white damage per hit during the TP phase due to higher DMG and possibly fSTR and you will end up with an increase significantly higher than those 2% you gain in net swings.

More or less the same reasoning holds up for Blurred Knife +1: It's 2.66 hits per second (Nibiru) against 2.80 hits per second (Blurred +1), or an increase of 5.3%. Blurred Knife +1 however is devoid of any WSC and it has a rather low base DMG, so the moment Nibiru's fSTR+ (and to some lesser extent: Critical Hit Rate +2%) kicks in, Blurred Knife +1 falls behind. Before that, it's slightly ahead.

Edit: I didn't "forget" about the Blurred +1/Blurred +1 combo, but the lack of all WSC and main-hand DMG puts it so far behind, I didn't even really feel like running maffs for that.

On another note though: Nothing really useful for DNC in this update. We can keep augmenting our Taeon and/or Rawhide for greatness. Yay.

inb4 JoyToy i119.

The place OAx shines is where you don't have large amounts of multiattack, as it lets you retain damage capability. In the above example wherein one has 3.24 swings per round without OA2, losing, say, all of that multiattack to put on -DT gear (multiattack is useless if you're eating the floor), Atoyac offhand is the difference between 2 swings per round and 2.4, which is 20% increase. So Atoyac (and Blurred Knife +1) allow you to maintain swings/round in situations where you can't wear full DD gear, because you're the tank or you're forced to tank from too much damage output, or just because of crippling AoE. Someone with a nicely augmented Ipetam mainhand and an Izhiikoh offhand might have higher base DPS than someone doing Izhiikoh main and Atoyac off, but if you compare both of those weapon combinations in a situation, such as full DT, where there is a scarcity of multiattack due to not wanting to die, Izhiikoh/Atoyac should pull ahead as long as you're at hit rate cap.

The way the check for multiattack and oax works is the order of priority is QA > TA > DA > OAx. So that 40% multiattack on Atoyac, when you have 2QA, 16TA, and 30DA only has a chance to proc on 57.6% of your swings, for a contribution of .23 attacks/round.

Lazy maffs: With Nibiru C, 6 additional hits per 100 hits break even against Blurred +1 OA2 (no other multi-attack). A few more (8) additional hits per 100 hits do that for my STP Atoyac.

This kind of maffs is not necessarily legit, because it does not remove accuracy/attack/stats from gear that wouldn't be there otherwise; I just removed all multi-attack, after all. My point however is that it might be something as little as a Windbuffet Belt +1 that can turn around things very fast. So while generally right that OAx shines with less multi-attack, I would not even consider Atoyac in such a situation, given that if something slaps me around hard for a longer period of time, chances are I have accuracy issues with Atoyac.

Another thing to consider is that with those "longer" cycle times, Reverse Flourish becomes a much more relevant asset, which also shifts things away from the OA2 daggers.

Okay... Got bored tonight and started playing with DPS sheets again, mostly trying to pin down haste tiers.

The following are based entirely on Soundsplitter Bats.
If you're returning like me, we've got some catching up to do in Job Points.
*I think the sheets assume 550 Job points, which adds 5% DW among attack and crit bonuses, so these could all be partially flawed.

Hume, /Sam, Red Curry Bun, Closed Position, Haste Samba, Saber Dance
*RCB is important to note, as Accuracy is not capped when removing pieces of 'perfect' Taeon, thus why Honed shows up
All sets use the Same Set:

Pyrrhic Kleos (5350 DMG)
ItemSet 336082

Haste Samba ONLY (870.4 DPS)
ItemSet 336078

Haste 1 + Samba (989.9 DPS)
ItemSet 336081
*Yes ladies and gents, that's a Suppa/Brutal Combo making a comeback!

Haste 1 + March 2 + Samba (1138.2 DPS)
ItemSet 336080

Any haste beyond this, shows as zero gain in DPS, with the exception of March 1, which adds 4DPS from Brd bonus gear, not actual attack speed. Meaning with these Daggers Dancer only needs 32% magic haste to cap. So basically, Haste 2 by itself. Double Marches by themselves, or Haste 1 and March 2, or Indi-Haste alone. Interestingly enough, this also means that Haste 2 + March 2 (or 43% Magic Haste) will still get you to the delay cap, and you don't even have to use haste Samba. Granted Samba will still benefit your party, but at the same time, mobs don't seem to live long enough for it to matter in CP parties. But even in solo situations with your trusts, like Arciela + Ulmia, you can stop wasting TP on Samba.

If I missed something, or you find a higher DPS set please share!

Disclaimer: This is all assuming I'm using the sheets right!
Also, the daggers you use will drastically alter which sets are optimum, but at the current time these are optimum non-Terpi daggers, thus the sets are designed around them.

You can change the number of total spent Job Points (as well as the number of JPs spent on Grand Pas and Flourishes II/III) on the first page of the spreadsheet. It calculates the bonuses granted by gifts correctly.

That said, these sets may work out on paper, but they won't work out well for you, even when ignoring the lack of the DW+5 gift: You "optimised" them to sit at pretty much exactly 99% hit rate. You won't have that, unless you're at 280+ JPs, which is where you get the 2nd accuracy bonus gift.

On another note: I am not 100% certain, but I _think_ Ulmia and Joachim have 0/5 Empyrean +2 armour (or Fili NQ/HQ). And they almost certainly have +0 songs onry, too.

Which path for Rawhide body?
Do all these additional crit hit rate on nibiru daggers and other items do anything in the tier list between Eviscerarion, non-Mythic Pyrrhic and Rudra's Storm?

Probably the threshold at which Rudra is better than Evisceration is higher now, thanks to all these additional +crit?

If you want to be truly kool etc. (or if you just have too many resources), A15 for WSs and D15 for TP. The gain from D15 during TP (over A15) however is somewhere single digits DPS, so your mileage may vary.

In spots where you are really attack-deprived, i. e. "real" content without Chaos/Fury/Frailty, Evisceration > Pyrrhic Kleos > Rudra's Storm, I think. But unless you're out there low-manning things with the absolute minimum, not having any of those is pretty much crying for "Get a GEO or COR".

Even Qultada's lucky Chaos Roll lets Pyrrhic Kleos pull ahead most of the time.

As Skudo mentioned, A15 for WS, D15 for TP, but A15 in both, will out DPS D15 in both.
Nibiru is Path C
Taeon is Acc/Att + Dex/Str + TA
Rawhide Feet are Path D
Rawhide Mask is Path A

Heading out of town for the weekend, when I'm back I'll try to remove the Job Points and re-run the gear sets. As for Ulmia/Joachim... I'm not sure how to account for that, but it's for solo purposes, whereas the gear sets are assuming a Job Point party, so assuming a real Brd. But as for capping haste with NPCs you're right, I'll have to edit out the bonuses.

I do have one question, I was making a 2nd set of Taeon last night for Waltz Potency, so I can cap 50% with Anwig Salade... Does Asklepian Ring not count toward the 50% cap, since it's on the 'received' side of the equation, or does that not matter? Would we need 50% on 'potency' and then that extra 3% from 'received' would allow a total of 53% or is it a full cap? Guess I could test it when I'm back, but thought maybe someone already had.

Have a good weekend guys!

It is on the Received side. It only works for you, though, so I think I ignored it. I bet it is better than CHR+9, but I haven't looked at it really.

As far as Waltz Potency Taeon for DNC, I guess Taeon Gloves with Potency +5% and CHR+10 would be the best hand armor (slightly better than Slither Gloves +1).

If you are going to give up the leg slot, Taeon Legs with Potency+5% / CHR+10 would quite possibly be your best option as well.

I guess I just don't know what other people are using, but I got 5% on Legs and Hands this weekend.

ItemSet 336122
So:
Roundel 5%
Maxixi +1 15%
Taeon Hands 5%
Taeon Legs 5%
Toetapper 5%
Maxixi +1 Feet 10%
Valsuer 3%

48%
With Anwig Salade
and then Asklepian is 3% on the received side.
Am I missing any pieces? (Outside of the head of course)
I see Sonia's Plectrum for an extra 1%, but only other pieces appear to be daggers.
Any new or augmented gear I'm over looking?

Is it any different in spots where you're not?
I guess the nature of crits make so they benefit less from large amounts of att.
Which kinda means that in the opposite situation (very high amount of att or def- on target) makes Crits less beneficial.
This kinda leads to the conclusion that in such situation non-mythic Pyrrhic might outperform Evisceration?

But then again Evisceration benefits from overTPing, whereas Pyrrhic does not.


I'm well aware of Evis > non-mythic Pyrrhic > Rudra is usually the tier order for 1000 TP.
Things change a bit when you go up, and there's a threshold after which Rudra is better, even after the nerf.
This threshold changes according to your buffs, the target's debuffs, the general stats etc.
On average for a standard target I calculated it to be around 1900 TP (so 1650 if you got Moonshade), I think? Dunno, I have it wrote down in my spreadsheet notes at home.

Whatever this threshold is, there is a threshold somewhere.
My original question was kinda this:
Do all this new influx of +crit gear (Taeon, Nibiru Daggersx2) benefit Evisceration, making so the threshold at which Rudra gets better is higher than it was before?
Or in other terms: does it take more TP for Rudra to surpass Evis, with all this crit gear?

I'd be curious about you people's calculations of the Evis<>Rudra threshold btw.
I tested it more on BRD than DNC, but the results I get on the spreadsheet do not really reproduce in reality.

As in: it takes more TP than it should (according to Spreadsheet) for Rudra to surpass my mythic Mordant Rime.
Not sure if it's because of errors in the spreadsheet or small sample size. Likely the latter, but still...

Yes, I'd guesstimate the turning point, where Pyrrhic Kleos > Evisceration, to be at around 1.5 ATK/DEF. Which assumes something like 1111 or so TP on average for Evisceration. That in turn assumes close to perfect play, because you'd have to "anticipate" the moment you break 1000 TP and kinda pre-hit your WS macro. Realistically, that ratio has to be higher in order for Pyrrhic Kleos to be ahead, I guess.


In general, yes. But just like with Pyrrhic Kleos, the turning point highly depends on the ATK/DEF ratio. It might be at 1500 effective TP (capped ratio), it might be over 2000 TP (~1.0 ratio).

Rudra's Storm essentially has two-and-a-half use cases: Skillchain properties, forced critical hits, and massive overflown TP, usually because of Fotia proc or Reverse Flourish. Rarely it's because you have so much leftover TP from auto-attacking down a mob.

I just found out about the 50% duration bonus cap for Jigs (which basically means Horos Tights alone are almost enough to cap duration, how lame is that?).

Anybody knows if JPs bypass this cap or not?

Nobody has any points in that Category? ;_;

Don't have Horos Legs, but with 6 JP in Jig, and Maxixi toe Shoes my duration shows as 2:33 if that helps at all?

Nope alas. Do you have Etoile Tights? (the NQ ones).
Here is the full duration list

Dancer's Shoes (35%)
Dancer's Shoes +1 (35%)
Maxixi Toeshoes (40%?)
Maxixi Toeshoes +1 (40%)
Etoile Tights (35%?)
Etoile Tights +1 (35%?)
Etoile Tights +2 (35%?)
Horos Tights (40%)
Horos Tights +1 (45%)

Those with ? I'm not 100% sure of.
We need to reach at least 50% bonus. With maxixi shoes you should be at ~40% already, if you have Etoile Tights, that should be above 50%.
If with both those items your duration will be above 3 mins, it means Job Points break the 50% duration cap.
Need to count it on your own though, can't rely on the displayed value of timers.
Can use timestamp in the chatlog I guess. That's approximate but should work.

Maxixi Feet + Etoile Legs +2 +6/10 JP:
Spectral: 1:30:33 > 1:35:08 (4:35)
Chocobo II: 1:35:47 > 1:38:51 (3:04)

I assume the timer starts when the Icon appears, which is long before the chat log reads I received the effect of quickening. So I'd say, yes, it breaks the cap. Although I'm unsure as to why this matters, but there you have it.

Supposing the JP value is a static amount that gets added at the end of the formula, after all other % enhancement are applied (which is the case for many Job Points) the expected result with 6/10 JPs would be 3:06.
You got 3.04 but I think 2 seconds difference is within acceptable range of the timestamp messages, which aren't exactely 100% precise.

The opposite could be said as well, that it was actually 3:00 mins but the chat message felt it as 3:04 because of accuracy etc.



My personal impression is that 2 seconds is within acceptable range of precision, whereas 4 seconds is too much.
So leaning towards the "it breaks the cap".

Byrth you have more experience than me with these things, what's your take?



(thanks Cambion for the Test!)

Yeah, probably breaks the cap. Depending how it is measured from the chat log, 2 seconds off is reasonable.

Different topic but still JP related.
What does the Grand Pas category do exactely?

Percentage is not especified, so I think it's safe to assume it's a static value.
But adding just +10 at the end of the formula (so that a 7000 Rudra's Storm will do 7010 instead) seems too low even for Job Points.
Did they mean Weapon Damage +10?
Or is it a % after all?

Job Points do break the cap, but don't ask me how I got it to 195 seconds. I can't do further testing right now, because conference teimz. ;-(

Grand Pas: As far as the spreadsheet (and therefore my view on it) goes, I added those +10 to the damage after fTP, but before pDIF. Similar to where other bonuses like from Flourishes III are applied.

(120+10)*1.5 = 195

Good thing I have Byrth to do maffs for me. Because I was thinking 120 * 1.5 + 10 = 190.

Given the ~2 seconds possible discrepancy in the chat log, those 195 seconds could actually be be 193 or 197.

195 hints to "bonus applying to the additional JP seconds" as well, but still being capped at 50% max bonus, just like Byrth's formula.
This doesn't explain the results Cambion got though.
Expected result if %bonus applies to JP as well => +7/+11 seconds
Observed result from Cambion => +4 seconds (which is within the ~2 seconds discrepancy range and hints at JPs being added after the %bonus)
There's something odd at play here...


Btw I noticed something strange even with the bonus durations.
Horos Tights +1 was consistant with 45% bonus. (~54-55 seconds)
Maxixi Feet +1 are 40% but that's not possibly right.
40% of 120 seconds is 48 seconds. Yet I was getting a ~42 bonus duration from feet alone, not 48.
Maybe it's something like being base 1024 and not base 100?
But the numbers on legs are 100% correct though.


P.S.
I counted manually using a clocktimer displaying seconds on screen, I didn't use the chat log timestamps.