How Would You Balance The Jobs?

Aegis only protects the PLD and doesn't help versus status ailments- part of what could make RUN more unique is to increase their ability to shield their allies from magic damage and status ailments (as well as a general increase to their damage potential to reduce the opportunity cost of using something else). However, in order for this to work they need to fix tanking so it can actually work in melee setups.


Many of the above potential capabilities have been granted to GEO, which I feel is an over-extension of that job and perhaps should be adjusted. I should also note that I'm "in the PLD camp," so I'm not ignoring anything.

I think they should give Black mage and dark knight stun2 to compensate for scholars completely owning the stun markets. Seriously everyone thinks that the only way to stun is through a scholar or red mage, and its more likely scholar since they get like 6 more stratagems then everyone else..

I really think giving black mage and dark knight stun to at level 50+ could help..

SCH isn't preferred because of Stratagems, its because it can hit 9 secs recast on Stun with haste spells/songs, and haste/fast cast gear. As can RDM. BLM/DRK can't, as far as I have seen.

Plus, in the other 90% of an event where we don't need to focus on stuns, both RDM and SCH can buff pts and help cure, with SCH coming into a close second on Curing abilities, behind WHM. Plus SCH can AoE -na spells, most across pt lines.

What's stun 2 gonna do then? Stun 1 can already get the job done.

We're supposed to use multiple WS instead of stuck with 1, that's why SE buffed every older WS.

The best solution is to nerf Fudo, unless they want to buff every WS instead.

Haste 2 + one capped march + max fastcast gear + composure off and Rdm hit the 9s
:-)

I think SE should take the opportunity to balance jobs by highlighting their individual strengths by introducing more unique JSE. Perhaps there's an opportunity with Empyrean +3 (119?) to showcase a job's strengths. For example, I noticed NIN has benefited greatly from AF and Relic equipment by way of access to much more Dual Wield. The same way an item like Black Belt defined a job like Monk for ages (perhaps not anymore) equipment can take jobs to new levels. JSE weapons and AF/Relic 119 were a nice start but when pools of jobs end up using the same items (Delve v2 Armors) it becomes harder to highlight a job's uniqueness.

Another alternative, jobs are specifically designed to be strong against specific races but most people don't even take this into account. I'll often take Samurai's into Allouvion and they won't even consider using the Demon related JAs against the Demon NMs until told. They should make these strengths more pronounced in the form of power boosts rather than niche job abilities. Then there would be more reasons to bring the right jobs to the right events. ie, DRK against Arcana heavy zones, DRG to dragons etc.

Less recast time, more stun duration, higher accuracy - any perks to make Stun 1 the inferior choice.


Some thoughts of balance to jobs based on gear:

1. JSE Armor set for WAR- Set: Grants ability to Dual Great Axes (Titan's grip from wow?)

2. JSE Armor for PLD - Set: Grants Reflect 50% of the time.

3. JSE Armor for NIN - Set: Adds an explosive effect to every utsusemi shadow consumed/hit. (decent dmg, 400 per shadow?)

4. JSE Armor set for COR: Enhance Phantom roll (Rolls apply to alliance)

5. JSE Set for DRG: Allows the calling of a 2nd Wyvren

6. JSE set for DRK: Enhances Last Resort and Desperate blows: Every hit landed while last resort is up increases DRKs haste by 2% (ignores all haste caps)

7. JSE set for RDM: Enhances Enhancing Magic - aga's all party and self enhancing buffs (including temper and gain spells)

8. JSE set for WHM: Enhances curing magic - % of HP cured is added onto target's defense. Cure for 1000 HP, target gets a % of that added onto their defense rating for duration of 30 seconds.

9. JSE set for THF: Enahnces SA - Removes Critical hit defense rating of target and increases critical hit rate for all party members attacking enemy from the rear.
Enhances TA: Target of trick attack is granted 3x as much enmity.

10. JSE set for RNG: Enhances Ranged Attacks - ignores all types of damage resistance 50% of the time.

11. JSE for MNK: Enhances Martial Arts effects: Occasionally critical hits will cause target to bleed for the duration of 30 seconds. Bleed effect and overall damage over time = 2x the critical hit damage. (Crit for 600 dmg, dot effect = 1,200 hp/30 seconds or 40hp/second)

those are my crapshot ideas for some jobs.
They're no more game breaking than what spamurai currently has access to.

That doesn't mean it's worth bringing a BLM just for it. If stun 1 can get the job done with any job /BLM, you wouldn't NEED to sacrifice the additional advantage from RDM,GEO,BRD for stun2. I mean, why do you need "higher macc" or lower recast time than current stun1 in delve?

Because both SCH and RDM are heavily dependent on haste and song haste to maintain their low recast for stuns. If you brought a BLM that had a native 10 seconds recast on Stun II which is superior to Stun1 in every aspect, it allows for BLMs to also bring their Nukes to the table and unburdens the brd from keeping the SCH/RDM marched.
Its slightly less headache and a net gain.

Cause having 0 delay/100% haste and killing everything by just engaging it is the same as what samurai can do right now.

We actually used to have this as DRK before the Apoc AM nerf. Actually it was better because there was no gradual build up, all you had to do was land a catastrophe.
Sure DRK was bad *** but it didn't mean we instantly killed ***.

There was an overall haste cap.

RDM is also a net gain in terms of dmg with dia3/haste2, so does GEO especially with SP up. SCH can also nuke quite well. Some ppl claimed even BRD can stun, in that case it's 1 extra spot for melee job which is a bigger net gain. I don't think keeping stunner hasted is a big deal....overall I don't see how stun2 would make BLM a superior choice to other jobs /BLM.

Know what drk needs? Chainsaws!

I wish we could get a whip job. That would be awesome.

1. Unless the ability completely ignored delay from the offhand weapon, I honestly can't see people utilizing that.
2. Does PLD really need more ways to mitigate/negate damage?
3. I kinda like this idea, or even making it so when a shadow takes a hit you have a chance to counter and gain TP?
4. This would certainly cut back on party swapping during events, but there'd have to be some trade-off I think.
5. I think it'd be kinda fun if DRG JSE gave it a chance to call a larger drake.
6. While I agree DRK needs something, I'd rather not go back to the days of DRK parties mowing everything down with M.Kris and K.Clubs.
7. From what I've seen when my brother plays, RDM doesn't really need anything right now.
8. I like the concept, but they already have cureskin. Until Afflatus becomes subbable, I really don't think WHM needs anything else to help secure their spot as a healer.
9. I'd like to see THF get something that when SATA is used they ignore 100% of enemy defense for 20 seconds or something. Might help compensate for their low damage output a bit.
10. I don't play RNG, nor have I ever really paid attention to them during events, so I have no comment for this one.
11. Edited as I should apparently not read forums immediately after waking up. I have no complaints about this one.

They need to adjust a few game mechanics before it is possible to make a game where "balancing" all 22 jobs is practical. Suggestions #1 and 3 from this thread would go a long way towards that:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/44122-Quality-of-Life-Balance-suggestions

They should also fix additional effects on WSs.

If they implemented those suggestions, we could control the monster's attention better, JAs/spells wouldn't be such a hindrance (basically fixing Magic DD DPS). After doing that, SE could use more focused job adjustments to push different jobs into different roles.

Roughly something like:

Still waiting for a checkparam for mage ><

The problem with HP Healed -> MP for jobs other than White Mage is the same reason its tricky to say White Mage is fine.

White Mage is fine in comparison to other healing jobs currently, but its position has been vulnerable since even before the Cure Formula made it possible to compete with a White Mage in terms of cures if you could somehow have enough MP. This is especially tricky since White Mage has a few unused mechanics like Red Mage has - Afflatus Misery is the big one that comes to mind.

So while other mage jobs getting the gear in say, the same slot would likely get White Mage the same gear as well (replacing the AF3+2 pants would be nice for White Mages too!), if you place it at the same potency then you run into potential problems.

First, the subjob'd White Mage can have access to Curaga II, which when spammed repeatedly can be of great use for certain mobs, but obviously not everything.

Still, when you run into jobs subbing White Mage or even Red Mage, with the way the Cure Formula works now you'd have to stack a sizable amount of Healing Magic to be competitive for single target cures. However well equipped Bards would be running around with a lot of Ballads dropping ~625 HP Cure IV, which is still nothing to laugh about, but maybe not replacement level yet, unless they also could get a source of light weather (such as from your Stun Scholar) to kick it up to ~790 HP.

Then, Red Mage which recently got some nice buffs (White Mages everywhere are conflicted... self-casting Haste II would be nice, but having to Haste cycle once again is not), would be even more competitive with White Mage. Arguably the Pink Mage might rise again, at least with mobs that permit rapid single target cures.

Scholars already have massive MP efficiency with Regen spells and stratagems, and already is competitive with Afflatus Solace with their on-demand weather spells boosting their cure amounts higher.

I'd potentially argue that White Mage is incredibly built around their cure pants, and giving this away without recompense would potentially be a big blow to their position. Whereas I'm not totally opposed to the idea, I'd suggest it needs to be considered carefully.

This post has been paid for by the campaign to buff Afflatus Misery.

Best way to balance the jobs is just to remove the ones that arent useful in events or are not the best at their role. Then we dont have to worry about balance!

We only need:
2 dds Rng and Sam
1 healer Whm
2 debuffers Sch, Geo (need slight change in available spells, geo silence!)
1 buffer brd (with ability to cap magical haste with relic only)
1 tank nin (yeah I said it)
and remove the random chance for items to drop and make it some standard. then we dont need thf or th procing.

There 7 jobs, completely balanced and with this SE will have time "quit holding back".

Take the best stuff from other jobs and give it to Samurai.

That would be a nice change but it wouldn't be enough, for instance it'd do nothing against non elemental magic damage.
Maybe they could address it by making so Vallation/Valiance give a certain amount of MDB for each rune?
How much MDB per rune would be okaysh to offer a decent value? Not negligible but not too strong either?
It wouldn't be as tough as Aegis, but it would close the gap a bit and make multiple elements a bit more viable for RUN. Especially if you could narrow it to 2 or 3 elements it would be totally viable.

Agreed, but if they go this way I hope it's through already existing stuff or passive things (job traits).
RUN already has a significant amount of stuff to do (Spells, JAs, Runes), adding even more would be overkill for my tastes.

Wut? Wards are already undispellable, if you use them with 3 runes up.
It got changed like 2 or 3 patches ago.
What they really need to make undispellable instead is *** Inspiration, gdi.
(I suppose I totally misunderstood your post though, sicne I'm sure you know about this. So what did you mean with undispellable wards instead?)


Oh I totally can! I would change the way Pflug works.
Split the bonus into two.
A base part which works for all kind of debuffs regardless of element affinity. This base value gets applied according to the number of runes you have (no matter the element).
Then a second part that works exactely right now, adds an additional resistance bonus according to the current runes element. X% per rune.
I don't care if the final numbers are the same as now (altough a bit more would be apreciated!), but being split in two would be much less annoying. Can't stand the JA spam between the runes you need to keep up for vallation/valiance and elemental defense, and the ones you have to put up before a Pflug.
Yes the 5 seconds cooldown helps but it's still uberly annoying, or is it just me?

Last but not least, I would put back some enmity into Runes.
I don't care if it's less than before, I'd be fine with that, but they need to give some enmity, some more than the current preposterous situation.
Especially if they want us to spam runes so much to swap between different wards, they totally need to generate better enmity, because the time I spend using runes is time lost not casting Flash, Foil or just meleeing to get TP.


Edit:
Yes I remember something more.
They need to split Liement away from Vallation/Valiance. It's HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE that they occupy the same slot. They totally need to be on 2 different ones, altough I agree this would be a minor change compared to the others listed, but still...

I'm curious what would people do to "fix" Ninja as a tank without making it broken on DD or other aspects.
I mean, aside from the general issues shared by all tanking jobs (enmity broken etc), I'm talking specifically about Ninja.
My two cents now.

Ninja is already in a good situation for tanking against physical stuff. What ruined it in the past was the spam of TPmoves (or normal attacks!) that strip you of all your shadows. This seems to have been reduced since post SoA, I feel we're at a good balance concerning this, or at least very close to that.

Since NIN has (at least) 2 very distinct roles, I feel what should be enforced and tweaked are the two "stances" Innin and Yonin.

• First they should be made undispellable.

• They they should remove the decay over time effect.
  

• Yonin should see the -accuracy go away. That was to compensate for the other bonuses it provides, but in a world where enmity works as it should, I feel the +enmity alone would be a negative bonus big enough to compensate for that and make the stance very undesirable for DDing purposes.
  

• In addition to +enmity Yonin should grant a minimum amount of MDT:II and PDT:II, could we call it DT:II maybe? A value of 5% would be too small maybe, but I feel it shouldn't be higher than 10%. I guess this could be good enough even if it were just MDT:II honestly.
  

• Yonin should also grant an effect that reduces the amount of enmity lost over time.
  

• Last but not least, Yonin should grant a new effect that grants a special bonus (which could be furtherly enhanced by Job Points and new gear maybe?) which would proc with a certain (low?) % chance. When it procs such bonus would make TP moves and Spells which would normally take multiple shadows eat only one instead. I assume it would be too unreliable for some fights given that it's a %, but then again it would be a nice addition.

Putting all these things into Yonin may seem too much, but tying stuff to Yonin is the only way I can think of to noticeably improve NIN's tanking abilities without making NIN a DD with too many overpowered/strong defensive abilities.
Another way they could do things is adding more JAs/Cooldowns and making so they can only be used while having Yonin up? I like this less but it would still be viable I guess.

They should just give main nin Utsu: San; 3 base shadow that absorb AOE dmg; only usable during Yonin and add a flash like ninjutsu.

also only nin can go above the hate cap~

Oh that's a nice idea and a simpler to implement alternative to my proposed "proc-based" thing.
I like this :o

Still kinda need at least a few of the other points I talked about though, especially the undispellable part.
Not sure if a flash-like ninjutsu would be necessary. I mean, not that I would say "no" to that. But with the huge PREMISE that they fix how enmity works in general, then Ninja should generate a decent flow of enmity from whitedamage/WSdamage alone, compared to the style RUN and PLD have.
If they make Yonin undispellable, fixed stats, no -acc and pack an "enmity decay -" effect in, NIN might be fine without a "flash-like" Ninjutsu. You would hardly get hit, and because of that the enmity lost through received damage should be really small.



@Sieha
I don't think that's part of the NIN specific adjustments.
They just need to fix how enmity works, period.
There are several ways to do that, the simplest for them would likely be the solution Byrth proposed.

That attitude only exists on sites like these. It's definitely not "best or nothing" but if there is a large discrepancy between jobs, then the broken job will be chosen. Examples of this are currently MNK and SAM where there is virtually no reason to not bring them. If two jobs are relatively close, withing single digit percentages of each other, without needing exotic setups (mythics basically), then you won't see a big issue. Like what SAM/WAR/DRK/DRG used to be, close enough that swapping one with another wouldn't really change your strategy. Now with Fudo the way it is, it could actually be a big drop in damage going from 2x SAM to 1 SAM + 1 WAR/DRK due to Fudo SCing with itself while being that powerful.