Sigurd's Descendants: The Art Of Dragon Slaying.

Could be the fact that your WS isn't actually "critical hitting"
Maybe that's it?
I'm fairly sure that the 30% increase is for all hits not just 1st.

Ftp is higher on drakes than star, it should be significantly stronger on weaker targets even with no crits and yet it still seems lackluster...meh

Prob the excess TP overflow from the high multi-attack rate on AM3 buffing Stardiver more.

Assuming 30% across all hits, and just taking fodder sets for both WS using Ryu AM3 active, the average difference is only about ~400 damage favoring Drakesbane on trivial targets.

If you force your critical rate to be 0% its about ~720 damage favoring Stardiver(would be smaller if you ditched Lancer +2/Huginn since you'd know you had no chance of Crits).

OverTP also may favor Stardiver over Drakes, on average your FTP is probably higher on Stardiver than Drakes especially with AM3 active, where as on Drakes its only benefiting your Crit Rate.

Perhaps you're using more atk and less +STR.
For example, a friend of mine was dicking around with his Mercy Stroke (also a STR WS) and was using Rancor Mantle... But his Rudra would pull massively ahead of MS when they should be similar in damage... (At 1000 anyways).
So I suggested to switch to the STR WKR cape. (Cause +8STR and +10ATK winds up being +17ish atk AND it would help with the WSmod.)
And sure enough, his MS wound up having MUCH better returns... Much more in line with the damage of Rudra.
So perhaps you're having a similar situation where you've got something like Rancor Mantle when you should use the STR WKR cape.

Except... mercy stroke isn't a Crit WS. <,<; Only time it's gonna crit is under SA/TA, and that's 100%. So I've no idea why your friend was using Rancorous Mantle at all. Zero benefit from crit rate there.

Now, Drakes IS a Crit WS. And Rancorous is best in slot, barring acc issues. And the back is about the last piece you change out if you do need acc.

A quick check in the spreadsheet had Buquwik over 100 dmg behind rancorous for drakes. Keep in mind, Drakes only has a 50% STR mod(FIX IT SE!)Stardiver is 85%, and Mercy is 80%. So STR doesn't weigh as heavily for Drakes.

Drakesbane only seems lackluster because Stardiver is just so amazing I think lol.

I think in order to make you happy, SE would need to remove the Attack penalty and increase the STR modifier maybe to 60% or so for you to see those consistently high amazing numbers.

Which I do not understand their reasoning behind them not adjusting it when they did all the other weaponskills.

My LS member pointed out that possibly they left Drakesbane untouched because they knew they would be giving DRGs 20% Attack in an upcoming update.

I do not know if that's good rationale but Ya :/

What I said though is, even on lower level mobs where my pdif ought to be capped, Drakesbane is about the same or worse than Stardiver. I popped a Behemoth yesterday, no aftermath3, Drakesbane did 4800, Stardiver did 6700. Next Drakesbane did 5227 and Stardiver did 8019. For a 4 hit 1.0 ftp ws vs a 4 hit 0.95ftp ws, the only diff is Star getting slightly higher base damage from the 35~STR wsc, but Drakes should be getting +30% damage which I think is only working on the initial hit, becUse if it was +30% for the entire WS, it should be doing significantly more than Stardiver, unless my 1300 attack is still under behemoth's defense during Drakesbane.
Btw I'm using the same sets as on the front page for my gear, on paper, if you factor out attack, drakesbane is a far better ws than stardiver, as feet/legs are a 20% boost to damage on crit, with mantle and ddex i should have had a pretty decent crit rate on it too and 30% multiplier should have added thousands.

Well dont forget stardivers ftp transfers over all hits drakes doesnt this and no attack penalty could be why its doing more.

If you're using moonshade:

Stardiver 1.075/hit ftp carry over so 4.3
drake is actually lower ftp 4.0
You also "sacrifice" some str for crit rate on drake compared to stardiver and 35% more str is like 70 wsc(too lazy to log and check the exact number)
I also believe da get the 1.075 ftp instead of 1.0 on stardiver but I'm not 100% sure on that one.
Also gavial helm(on proc day) favor stardiver even more.

I can't really see the Recent DRG buff as a reason to ignore drakes, and Buff stardiver. Ironically, the stated reason for the WS adjustment was to bring more WS up to par with merit WS. And make a greater variety of WS usable.

Cept then drakes got ignored, ad DRG's Merit WS got buffed.... <,<

What I can see SE doing, is ignoring drakes as a sort of indirect Ryu nerf. SE has had a tendency of trying to reduce the gap between the top equipment and the next best option.

You can see this when you look at Shields or instruments. With various Ilvl shield creeping up on Ochain, and the additional song harp(terpander, iirc) encroaching on Dardaubla.

So, It seems to me like ignoring drakes was a way to narrow the gap between Ryu and non-ryu drgs, without actually directly nerfing Ryu. Which pisses me off. But not as bad as actually nerfing Ryu would have. <,<

Anyway. regarding possible adjustments to Drakes. Even just your suggestion of a 60% str mod and removal of the atk penalty would push Ryu Drakes ~300 dmg ahead of stardiver. It wouldn't take much. And compared to the changes to other WS that's a pretty small change. I'd rather see something a bit more on par with the other WS's changes. XD

Drakesbane matches DRG's theme too much, the blue energy motif really matches our AF/AF2/AF3 plus the ws name implies its a technique for slaying dragons. I wish it was our premier WS again because I always feel more like a DRG using it, and its job specific, it should be better than merit ws. Merit ws were meant to give jobs without exclusive weapon skills, a similar ws that is on par with the exclusive. For example, BLU, BLM and PLD don't get Hexa Strike so they get Realmrazer. RDM doesnt get vorpal blade but they get requiescat, SAM and WAR don't get skewer or drakesbane so they get stardiver. The unique ws should be better than the merit ws since merit ws can be used by other jobs. I think merit ws should be used to just fill in gaps for sc properties or for jobs that dont get the unique ones. Kings Justice, Drakesbane, Insurgency those should be better than upheaval/stardiver.

Like I said with the WS dmg+ gear and fTP carry thing; if you think something is off then test it under controlled conditions.

Because reporting a few eyeballed numbers is not particularly convincing. Drakebane is a multi-hit crit WS. It has huge potential dmg variance. Add in AM3 and the range gets even bigger. Seeing some low drakes is not unusual.

Yeah at time it's very hard to see SE's reasoning behind the actions they take.

They seemed okay with making some mythic WS's the Best option for a job but not others.

Mandalic Stab is almost on par with Rudra Storm even without a mythic, yet with the mythic is a THFs best option.

Also, there hasn't been a new introduction of Crit Dmg+ or Crit hit rate ILvl gear in quite sometime. That could be another factor into why they haven't boosted drake because they knew they would be releasing gear that would substantially augment drakes dmg (I doubt that's the case just giving SE a leg to walk on lol)

Maybe they left Drakes untouched because they are going to add a lot more crit dmg to empy legs reforged and possibly add it to more of the set. Seems far fetched but possible.

Speaking of reforged AF3, I don't see them touching the unique stats much. Body will probably have haste+3%, stat vomit etc but STP will probably stay at 10(fine, also the wyvern food bonus will be awesome, because screw eating mochi). I can see hands being kinda cool, 4% DA, some good Dex(30-33) and 10+ Acc, head might be good as an acc piece, 20-25 att/acc and some polearm skill. Feet maybe a WS piece but I doubt it, could be ok for TP for acc set but it doesnt have STP on it. Legs will obviously be a great WS and Jump piece. I'd love for Wyvern HP to be present on hands to finally replace Ostreger Mitts -_-. Maybe they'll add something unique for a steady wing bonus or something. I'm not too hopeful for anything special, literally expecting just stat vomit.

Possible in the way that getting hit by lightning sitting at you PC on a clear day is Possible, yes.

But that'd be a seriously shitty reason not to buff Drakes with the rest of the WS.

Just for kicks, I added some possible 119 lancer legs to the spreadsheet. Basically Scufflers's stats, minus the DA, with +20%(optimistic) C.DMG.

The result? Stardiver is still hundreds of DMG ahead. Not surprised. The issue here is largely than can be reasonably solved with gear.
Isn't 3% haste about the minimum you ever see on an Ilvl body?

But seriously, even if it is just stat vomit thrown on top of the base pieces... that's OK~ Considering some pieces are still usable as is in an ilvl environment. Still, I do hope for some improvements and/or new enhancements.

Just fix drakes first, so I can actually enjoy 119 lancer legs. <,<

-Hands won't likely be useful, likely getting +6STR like Ptero/Vishap. Won't be useful for TP, no sTP. Would love for it to have Wyvern HP+ 200 on it.

-Head may be decent for WS, but would need to have monstrous ATT/STR but doubt it; likely won't beat Otomi. Lacks sTP to be useful for TP. Maybe they'll toss 'Enhances Steady Wing' on it. Would be cool if it had Restoring Breath ability delay -5

-Body will be good no matter what. sTP+10, haste, att/acc, str,dex is godly for TP. Letting Wyvern gain benefit of Sole Sushi +1, without needing to use Mochi is a huge boon. Maybe enhances Dragon Breaker. Also Wyvern Haste+8% please.

-Legs will likely be a very good WS piece, STR+30-33 and VIT+30-33, Attack+20-30 hopefully and crit dmg+ 10-12%, it will likely reveal Spirit and Soul Jump attack bonuses(Lancer+2 just says Enhances but when you ilvl AF/AF2 it actually shows you the value like with Pteroslaver Brais+ 25 and Vishap brais+25.

-Feet will probably be similar as hell to Pteroslaver, STR/VIT and ATT/ACC most likely, Spirit Jump TP bonus, maybe Smiting breath ability delay -5.

I'd think hands could be a potential acc/jump piece. My current high acc hands don't have any STP either. doesn't make them useless. Lancer hands already had DA+4%. Perhaps we'll see that upgraded. Would make for a good high acc TP/Jump piece

But really, I'd like to see STP added to pretty much the whole set. <,<

Would also love to have a "Enhances Call Wyvern Effect" which calls adds +5 accuracy for each parameter boost level, in addition to the haste/att/def we get from it :3


As for STP on each piece, it's possible, I mean BRD AF2 got PDT added to every piece. . .

Soul Jump TP bonus on hands would be nice

Hmm, if that worked like Wyrm mail does, then I'd actually have to idle in it so it doesn't get lost on zone. Haven't been bothering to do so with wyrm mail. <,<

Although I like all of us want Drakesbane to be fixed, as we stand right now with Stardiver is the "need" there?

SE fixed Leaden / Trueflight / Mandalic because the "need" was there, maybe in their eyes (again just playing devil's advocate) they know or realize a DRG can be immensely competitive with the higher DD jobs when they utilize SD & Camlann?

I mean Martel me and you have spreadsheeted it and in optimal conditions new post update DRG's can reach very high DPS numbers rivaling other high end DDs.

I just think the developers are like seeing players complain about Drakes and are kinda like ~

"We gave you one of the Best STR Based WS's (Stardiver) & you complain -_-"

Pretty clearly none of the dev team plays Ryunohige DRG. Or they'd realize that they buffed the wrong WS. <,<

Is there a need? When you find yourself parsing at about half of a Koga SAM's dmg, yes. There's a need. -.-; (I'd quote specifics, but it was from scoreboard since kparser was down, so no records. ; ;)Might have been the most ridiculous Koga sam to ever play, and I'm kinda outta practice, but still.

Of course, the answer to that could just as easily be a SAM nerf. But I don't really see that happening. Besides, I'd rather have a drakes buff.

On spreadsheet, I have ryu about 10% ish behind koga, could prolly improve those ryu set a lil too

Surprisingly on Tojil
With optimal buffs
(5 songs / soul voice / 2 rolls / 25% defense down / war sub using SD)

DRG is ahead of SAM by 150 dps (now we aren't factoring SPs or Skillchain DMG)


If a great Koga SAM can outparse a great Ryu DRG
Than the SAM can probably do that to any other DD job also lol so it's not so much a issue as Drakesbane needing a buff.

It goes back into the argument of "job balance" which has been a ongoing debate forever.

That's a notably smaller gap than I'd heard last I talked to a koga sam about DPS values.I haven't done any direct comparisons to SAM DPS on the spreadsheet, since I'm not about to research SAM sets enough to put good sets in. <,< I was just going off the value I'd been given during a post update discussion.

I guess I should have put a sarcasm tag on most of that post. Cept the getting out parsed bit. That happened. -.- But certainly, My performance that day was questionable.

Anyway, I'll cede the "need' argument.

I Want a drakes fix. BAD. Screwwwww stardiver. I want my Drakes back. It was so cool to have a different best WS when you had mythic. The Weapon/WS synergy was fun too. Different, more complex gearing made things more interesting. But SE seems intent on shaving away the advantages of top tier equipment, so, so much for that. Buff every polearm WS... except drakes. wth SE? *insert further discontented grumbling here*

I've always believed DRG was a amazing job, and we are one of only a few jobs that can select from 4 different Weaponskills to use at high levels.

Camlann
Stardiver
Drakes
Sonic (for SC'in)

All have their situations where using one would be optimal over the other.

While most MNKs only V. smite
Most Sams only Fudo (aside from 4 step light purposes)
Etc. Etc.

At least we have times where we'd can use different weaponskills and not spam the same thing over and over again.

When I parse against a Koga SAM in Incursion, the SAM can literally Fudo>Fudo for light with just Marches and Haste II, it's nuts. Star in incursion is doing like 4-7k with occasional random 10-11k depending on buffs, which is taking off maybe 20-30% HP from mobs in 128 incursion, but a Fudo>Fudo from a Koga SAM will take off kill a mob from full health any JAs pretty much all the time with haste and marches up. I've tried switching to Camlann's Torment because I can
Sekkanoki>Meditate>Spirit Jump>Camlann's Torment>Drakesbane>Camlann's Torment for double light but it still doesn't compare to Fudo>Fudo and not nearly as often. Dunno where Ccl is getting only 10% behind because even though my WS average is a bit higher than this SAM, I'm behind in SC damage by MILES. He's getting off 12k SC off his 7k fudos, sometimes 18k lights maybe from that JA that boosts SC damage? idk but it's probably not 10%, that SC damage is way too absurd.

Also even though we have more utility out of our WS, being able to spam your strongest weapon skill and chain light out of it is pretty badass. Imagine how godly DRG would be if Drakesbane or Stardiver had lv3 SC properties? With Fly High and AM3 we would be one of the best zerg jobs. Imagine Stardiver>Stardiver=Darkness? I could get off like 10 of those skillchains during Fly High if uninterrupted, but instead i just do Camlann>Camlann which is a bit harder due to less TP return(usually camlann>high Jump gives me like 89% TP or something so its hard to chain camlanns together during fly high unless you get a DA/TA proc on the jumps which is only feasible with AM3 but still not a guarantee.