Sigurd's Descendants: The Art Of Dragon Slaying.

I bolded the important part.

Inside Dynamis-D the "boss" level mobs have an innate -75% resistant to Geomancy. That 83 you quoted would be 83 * 0.25 = -20.75 defense down. This is why stacking defense down effects along with some attack buffs is incredibly important, LS Dia III + Bolstered Frailty + Defense Down (Angon / Armor Break / Ageha / ect) and if possible a DNC's box step. Their group likely didn't stack like this and didn't have capped pDiff.

Thx for info Veikur and Saevel!

Do we know how much def have those bosses?
I just checked my non REMA, 60JP drg in some cheap stardiver gear with just CC chaos roll (+5 phantom roll only on mule) and SV honor, minuet IV and V has 5536 attack. I feel like that's for sure enough to cap new max pdif on drg in fully buffed scenario, but since I dont really know def of the bosses, I can't be 100% sure. Saevel could probably throw some info tho?

WoC apparently has 1950, Kouryu at 2100. If within that range, ~3425 attack would be needed to cap 4.455 pDif, with all stacking defense downs applied, on the upper end.

Hey, keep in mind that WoC/Koryu and all Escha mobs for that matter are not level adjusted like Disjoined. The amount of attack needed to cap in Escha is less than in dyna.

Our group uses what we have available. Most of the stuff you listed don't stack.

Armor Break, Ageha, Angon, Tenebral Crush don't stack.

The maximum defense down you can apply is:
Dia IV
Tenebral, Ageha, Armor Break, or Angon - Tenebral being the best
Box Step x10 - We don't take a dancer, most groups don't.
Frailty

You can't have bolstered Frailty up the entire fight, so 3 out of 15-20min (6 if you're lucky with COR resets) you'll have bolstered frailty effects.

So with DM augments, I was able to get 69 WSD (70 if you have +1 ring), 79/80 with Rhong R15.

How much WSD are you calculating into these numbers?

There is no longer any such thing as "level adjustment" in this game. NM's have ridiculous defenses, often in the 3K+ range and it's pretty much impossible to "cap attack" without a ton of defense down.

I'd be interested if you had the numbers on that for this. The comparison I'm using is on Disjoined. If you average WS damage doesn't go up 10% while using the neck, then you are definitely not attack capped. My WS average on Disjoined fluctuates between 18 and 20 with our without the neck.


You might be right. I'm not sure, that's why I'm interested in testing it. I'll be testing 69% WSD Camlann's build tonight.

Don't think you read that right.


Notice the plus's between stackable categories and parenthesis around the non-stackable.

Dia III + Frailty + Defense Down + Daze.

CT is only useful as a SC linker and if your wanting to do Radiance. It's damage is mediocre at best, which sometimes is all you need. And yes if your SD is doing 18K average then your group is doing something wrong.

How is Tenebral Crush better defense down than say, Ageha?

18~20k avg over a 15min fight is accurate and representative of the job's capabilities. I could see a higher average if we were taking a DNC, but it's unnecessary and unrealistic.

There is nothing to test, bro. It's silly. It's all a know equation. If pdif is high enough to get really good CT's it's also high enough that Stardiver will be better.

Edit: I am basically at 19k CT on West Ron Bunnies. With neck so it's impact already included. I use 44 WSD. So 69 WSD would do 22.3k. Good luck getting 25k averages on W3.

22.3k is less than my Stardiver average on my last T3 kill - and I was using Rhon, not Trish.

Then you are doing something wrong.

62. 4 wsd/15 str augments on head/body, 10 hands/legs/back, 7 feet, 6 ammo, 2 ear, 9 rings.

Ok one more time (maybe it will sink one day), WSD for specific WS gained through REMA augments is not additive with WSD from gear. It's not even additive with previous hidden unique WSD on Relic and Mythic weapons. It's a new multiplier and also works for whole WS, not just first hit like regular WSD on gear.

You're aware this is a different person you're telling this to, right?

What you mean? My last post? It was clearly directed to Shozokui whose words are in quotation I posted. He added 10% from Rhongo to wsd in gear.

Your wording implies you've mentioned it to him specifically multiple times. The only person I've seen you mention it to is Skarwind.

What i meant is that this fact i mentioned has been mentioned on this forum several times in several topics. So i meant it as one more time reminder to the community.

Doesn't matter. I understand how it works so going off the handle like you've told everyone 1000 times and no one seems to get it is silly. Since camlann's is a single hit, the calculation is remarkably similar, so maybe that's why I made that connection?

My Theory:
Large amount of TP overflow would allow you to put up a high weaponskill average because of the additional defense ignored by Camlann's on the Disjoined boss in Dynamis. Since I was able to get a 22.5k average in capped pDif/fSTR scenario. Executing this with Trishula means you have 750 TP bonus which means that you will almost constantly be WSing above 2k, but if jumped 3k.

The Results:
Lackluster to say the least. The additional defense ignored doesn't actually do much. My WS average with 69% WSD was 17k with CT. Average DPS for the duration of the fight being able 3.5k. Given that my previous averages with Stardiver were 18~20k and DPS was slightly higher, this one's a bust. The place where CT did well was outside of bolstered/blazed Frailty. During those windows Stardiver scales to an avg of 30~35k, spiking as high as 45k as expected while CT doesn't benefit.

It's a bit of a shame, I was liking the idea of making Rhong. Neat looking weapon and the red glow is BiS in my opinion. I like finding uses for weapons that usually are not BiS, but can perform well under those specific circumstances.

Also there's not really much need for an "I told you so". The theory was sound, just didn't work out in practice.

Theory was interesting. Camlann's is just a really unfortunate weaponskill that the Augments didn't help much.

Kinda curious how Drakesbane (without Ryu) performs in comparison, given crits are relatively more beneficial when attack starved.

On that note, Drakesbane needs like, 4250 attack to cap pDif on enemies with Kouryu-ish defense. With Def Down, Daze, Nerfed Fraily, and LS Dia.

There are uses for Rhon. I think it may be the best W3 boss weapon given WS don't fire off consistently in Dynamis. And you have random niche stuff like Amnesia or this months qutrub Ambuscade. Remember: its defining feature is the white damage not CT. It's a really strong 3k start tp burn weapon especially for anyone who does not have access to Trish.

Not saying its best, or even worth it for everyone. Just it does have uses. You can really make any DRG REMA work.

Don't higher end monsters/NMs have some form of critical hit resistance? Or was it only certain ones.

It's a job trait, so depends on the enemy to my knowledge. And it's towards critical hit damage, -14% being the highest tier for PLDs. -8% for DRG/BRD/PUP.

Nah, a series of endgame NMs had a severe player critrate- effect around late voidwatch era. Morta, Bismark, Paramount Gallu/Botulus come to mind. I'm not sure if it's been in use recently, I suspect not.

Everything in wave 2 and onward of Mul in legion had it. with major potency. Like -25% crit rate, iirc. Was brutal on Drakes.

Ah okay.

Honestly I wish they would just remake Drakesbane into Vorpal Blade with Fusion / Transfixion properties.

Kind of a joke a multi job, 200 skill weaponskill is better than a mythic weaponskill.

1.375 ftp, 60% STR, and ftp transfers to all hits..

Drakesbane could certainly use some attention. Seeing as it got completely ignored in both major WS revision updates. I think it was their way of indirectly nerfing Ryunohige since it was ridiculously powerful at the time. Yeah... that's not an issue anymore. You can buff drakes now.

For changes, I'd say start with getting rid of the attack penalty. Up the str mod. Tweak ftp and add transfer maybe? Then either buff the hell outta the native crit+ or dump the crit mod entirely and go dmg ftp+ and ftp transfer. But then you'd basically have a stardiver clone.

One thing that's always irritated me. Why do mythic WS not get a lvl3 SC property? Relic have them. Empy have them. Eventually even merit WS got them, with the right Wep/AM. By all means, limit it to when using Ryu with AM up, but give Drakes a L3 property! It's really something all mythic WS should have.(and I'm going to pretend like that wouldn't make Leaden salute even more wtf broken.)

Anyway, enough of my pipe dreams.

It'd be nice if it were viable for other weapons. But at least optimal (until a certain TP threshold) to spam with Ryu while zerging now.

It would be nice if Drakes got some love, but I doubt it will. Let's be honest though, buffing any of DRGs multi-hits will put it in contention/competition with DRK and SE has been clear the entire time DRG has existed that they don't want that.

I wish Drakes was as good as Chant du Cygne though :(. Ryu/Drakes was supposed to be Dragoon's Swan Song.