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George Takei vs Hobby Lobby
Siren.Mosin
By Siren.Mosin 2014-07-07 10:11:09
Genital mutilation is okay as long as it's for a good, god-fearing cause.
how about for conformity's sake?
Bismarck.Ramyrez
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4746
By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-07-07 10:13:25
Genital mutilation is okay as long as it's for a good, god-fearing cause. how about for conformity's sake?
Don't forget to substitute genital mutilation for being a good husband to help ensure fidelity. You wouldn't want to treat your wife like a human being; just take away her ability to enjoy sex. Much easier.
Siren.Mosin
By Siren.Mosin 2014-07-07 10:19:03
whoa nelly, I thought we were still talking circumcisions...
that stuff's just wrong.
Bismarck.Ramyrez
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4746
By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-07-07 10:25:06
whoa nelly, I thought we were still talking circumcisions... that's stuff's just wrong.
Admittedly circumcision isn't on the same level.
I just think it's all pretty stupid.
Lakshmi.Flavin
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 18466
By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-07-07 10:29:01
whoa nelly, I thought we were still talking circumcisions... that's stuff's just wrong.
Admittedly circumcision isn't on the same level.
I just think it's all pretty stupid. By not on the same level you mean it's not genital mutilation... k...
god you really do need to come down off that high horse every once in awhile... Like Mos would really be talking about genital mutilation of women so that they can no longer enjoy sex as a marital fidelity aide as conforming to society.
Bismarck.Ramyrez
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4746
By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-07-07 10:38:44
whoa nelly, I thought we were still talking circumcisions... that's stuff's just wrong. Admittedly circumcision isn't on the same level. I just think it's all pretty stupid. By not on the same level you mean it's not genital mutilation... k... god you really do need to come down off that high horse every once in awhile... Like Mos would really be talking about genital mutilation of women so that they can no longer enjoy sex as a marital fidelity aide as conforming to society.
It is used to conform in a society. Just not American society.
I'm just saying that I think it's a stupid practice. *shrug*
Edit: Though I knew you'd be lurking to get snippy about my comments. No pun intended.
Edit2: I lied. The pun was intended.
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Bismarck.Ramyrez
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4746
By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-07-07 10:44:02
Also, since the prior thread seemed to have ended at that point and I posted this a little late to keep it going there, I'll submit it here.
Found this. I felt it was absolutely dead on and belongs here:
Quote: Here’s how employer-sponsored health care works.
Your employer gets a volume group discount on health insurance.
You WORK for your employer. Your health insurance package is PART OF YOUR COMPENSATION FOR YOUR WORK. It is not FREE. You are, explicitly, WORKING FOR IT.
Your employer does not discuss, with your doctor, what treatments you are given for any medical condition or circumstance you might encounter. Your employer has no right to your medical records. Your employer is NOT your health care provider.
Part of your compensation for work is actual money. Your employer has no rights over what you choose to do with your money. The same applies to the health insurance which you have WORKED in order to EARN. It is not free. It is not a gift. It is compensation for work. I’m saying that more than once because it seems to be a super difficult thing for some of the geniuses to understand.
Reproductive care is medical health care. All methods of contraception are legal. Abortion is legal. You have a right to legal health care. There is no moral or legal difference between reproductive health care and other forms of health care. Like all health care, it is a confidential matter between yourself and your doctor.
Anyone who pretends they are a “conservative”, but believes an employer has the right to interfere between doctor/patient privilege is — at best — someone who doesn’t understand conservative values of non-interference in personal lives. At worst, you’re just a *** hypocrite who is deeply concerned about other people’s lives and choices.
Health insurance is not “free abortions” or “free contraception” or “government anything.” It is compensation. For work.
And it is, seriously, none of your *** business what a woman and her doctor decide for her health care.
Period. ***. End.
You can pretend your objection is about whatever you want to pretend it’s about, but it’s pretty obvious you’re just a puritan *** who’s afraid of ladies having the minimum control over their lives that you take for granted. If that’s you, my wish for you is that your employer is a Christian Scientist, and you get appendicitis.
-- D. Avallone
Sure it's just a blog rant. But it's entirely accurate.
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Siren.Mosin
By Siren.Mosin 2014-07-07 10:52:00
I'm just saying that I think it's a stupid practice. *shrug*
I tend to agree with you, but I've had to ponder all this in an applicable fashion, & ended up letting a doctor snip my son. in the end it all boils down to whether or not it is a stupid enough practice that I should lead the charge against it, with my son only being a pawn in a game of ideals that he may or may not give two *** about.
Ideals gets slapped in the pussy by reality more often than not, I have found.
I was just curious if you still thought it was a travesty if not done for religious purposes, but for the hope that your offspring will jive with his contemporaries as easily as possible.
interesting stuff.
Lakshmi.Flavin
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 18466
By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-07-07 11:01:20
Ok I'm going to break this down for you... Mos, speaking about circumcision, says people have done it to conform in contrast to religious motivation.
You reply with:
Don't forget to substitute genital mutilation for being a good husband to help ensure fidelity. You wouldn't want to treat your wife like a human being; just take away her ability to enjoy sex. Much easier
The point being that you get on these kicks and then make ridiculous replies that have no place in the conversation. In no way was he talking about female genital mutilation and it was obvious.
As a regular poster I lurk now? Don't flatter yourself lol... Your comments are mostly HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE and inspired by what seems like some kind of righteous indignation. vHalf the time I think you're blind to what's actually being discussed but only come in to say how *** up you think something is lol... then leave with blood pressure way above normal...
Bismarck.Ramyrez
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4746
By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-07-07 11:02:37
I'm just saying that I think it's a stupid practice. *shrug* I tend to agree with you, but I've had to ponder all this in an applicable fashion, & ended up letting a doctor snip my son. in the end it all boils down to whether or not it is a stupid enough practice that I should lead the charge against it, with my son only being a pawn in a game of ideals that he may or may not give two *** about. Ideals gets slapped in the pussy by reality more often than not, I have found. I was just curious if you still thought it was a travesty if not done for religious purposes, but for the hope that your offspring will jive with his contemporaries as easily as possible. interesting stuff.
I don't feel strongly enough about it to call it a "travesty", but I mean...how strongly do you care about society's thoughts about your kid's wanger?
Drunken college antics aside, how many people are going to see your son's business to be in a position to judge it?
Societal conformity seems a poor reason to give the go-ahead to me. Religious reasons to have it done by a non-physician seem even worse to me, largely because of the "non-physician" aspect.
Bismarck.Ramyrez
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4746
By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-07-07 11:09:01
Ok I'm going to break this down for you... Mos, speaking about circumcision, says people have done it to conform in contrast to religious motivation. You reply with: Don't forget to substitute genital mutilation for being a good husband to help ensure fidelity. You wouldn't want to treat your wife like a human being; just take away her ability to enjoy sex. Much easier The point being that you get on these kicks and then make ridiculous replies that have no place in the conversation. In no way was he talking about female genital mutilation and it was obvious. As a regular poster I lurk now? Don't flatter yourself lol... Your comments are mostly HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE and inspired by what seems like some kind of righteous indignation. vHalf the time I think you're blind to what's actually being discussed but only come in to say how *** up you think something is lol... then leave with blood pressure way above normal...
We all lurk, in the sense I'm using the word. I just had a feeling it would trigger a response from you.
I actually took his initial statement as an "escalation" of bad reasons to engage in genital mutilation. Sorry, I didn't think he was actually presenting a valid talking point. It is clearer in hindsight that he was.
I think it's all part of the discussion of a problem, just varying degrees of severity.
Edit: Also, what you try to hyperbolize as "righteous indignation" and somehow morph into something unreasonable is, in my opinion, reasonable disgust at an injustice and/or inappropriate action. You judge me for having a negative emotional response. I judge you for being okay with the act(s). It's obviously something upon which we disagree, but in the past few weeks you've called me HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE, called me piece of ***, and -- though I may be recalling this one incorrectly -- have actually intimated I should commit suicide.
So you tell me who's having an inappropriate emotional response.
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Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6558
By Odin.Zicdeh 2014-07-07 11:23:42
So you tell me who's having an inappropriate emotional response.
Siren.Mosin
By Siren.Mosin 2014-07-07 11:26:22
how strongly do you care about society's thoughts about your kid's wanger?
well I'm less adamant about any stance on the subject than you, so I guess.... not too much?
how many people are going to see your son's business to be in a position to judge it?
well hopefully a few.... lol
that's on him, not me.
Societal conformity seems a poor reason to give the go-ahead to me
well.... at least you're consistent!
so Ramyrez is against circumcision for any reason. that's fair.
Valefor.Sehachan
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2014-07-07 11:27:28
As far as I know pediatricians often find cases where the baby could *potentially* develop a case of phimosis later on and thus suggest circumcision.
It's been the case for my brother and every circumcised guy I've met(cause there are no jews here), and they all agreed they wished it happened when they were still infants rather than during teen age.
The brother of a girl in my class in hs ended up to the hospital for tearing his fraenum on his first time <.< I can't imagine how painful it must have been, and also kinda ruining a delicate moment.
Yes, I know it's been said it's fine if it's medical, but the point is you can't always know for sure it'll develop that way. So what I'm trying to say is, isn't it for the best anyway?
And it looks better!
Siren.Mosin
By Siren.Mosin 2014-07-07 11:29:06
So you tell me who's having an inappropriate emotional response.
you're the banana!!!
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Bismarck.Ramyrez
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4746
By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-07-07 11:32:12
how strongly do you care about society's thoughts about your kid's wanger? well I'm less adamant about any stance on the subject than you, so I guess.... not too much?
Then why have it done if you don't care what society thinks? I mean, that's my point. In this day and age it's an aesthetic issue that potentially lessens his sexual enjoyment come adulthood [citation needed, but I've seen it mentioned in the past].
Societal conformity seems a poor reason to give the go-ahead to me well.... at least you're consistent! so Ramyrez is against circumcision for any reason. that's fair.
Not entirely accurate. If there is a valid medical concern provided, then it's certainly appropriate. These concerns are just simply not omnipresent in this day and age and there's no medical reason to keep the practice constant, unless I'm missing something here.
Bismarck.Ramyrez
Server: Bismarck
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Posts: 4746
By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-07-07 11:36:12
As far as I know pediatricians often find cases where the baby could *potentially* develop a case of phimosis later on and thus suggest circumcision. It's been the case for my brother and every circumcised guy I've met(cause there are no jews here), and they all agreed they wished it happened when they were still infants rather than during teen age. The brother of a girl in my class in hs ended up to the hospital for tearing his fraenum on his first time <.< I can't imagine how painful it must have been, and also kinda ruining a delicate moment. Yes, I know it's been said it's fine if it's medical, but the point is you can't always know for sure it'll develop that way. So what I'm trying to say is, isn't it for the best anyway? And it looks better!
Honestly, through discussion of the topic I might be getting viewed here a little more strongly opinionated about this topic than I actually am. If there's a medical concern involved, great. Break out the sterilized tools and snip away.
I just think doing it for aesthetic reasons or having it done by someone who isn't a physician on a religious basis are bad reasons to have it done.
Valefor.Sehachan
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2014-07-07 11:38:11
"What is your profession?"
"I celebrate Mass, divulge the word of God according to the holy texts of my religion, and specialize in cutting penises."
Siren.Mosin
By Siren.Mosin 2014-07-07 11:38:58
I might be getting viewed here a little more strongly opinionated about this topic than I actually am
for sure on my part, so I am going to humbly bow out, for now.
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10394
By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2014-07-07 11:40:57
I like the part where a priest gives my child a *** after the circumcision. Sucking the bloody foreskin off a freshly cut penis? God approves.
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Bismarck.Ramyrez
Server: Bismarck
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Posts: 4746
By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-07-07 11:41:25
Does anyone have George Takei's position on circumcisions?
That might be quite relevant to the discussion.
Valefor.Sehachan
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2014-07-07 11:41:51
Does anyone have George Takei's position on circumcisions?
That might be quite relevant to the discussion. Better question: is Takei circumcised?
Bismarck.Ramyrez
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4746
By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-07-07 11:42:24
Does anyone have George Takei's position on circumcisions? That might be quite relevant to the discussion. Better question: is Takei circumcised?
Ask Brad?
Server: Lakshmi
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Posts: 10394
By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2014-07-07 11:49:21
Good question to ask him at his next public appearance if only for the "Oh my" that will follow.
Server: Odin
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Posts: 6558
By Odin.Zicdeh 2014-07-07 11:57:12
Go home page 4, you're drunk.
By Lye 2014-07-07 12:02:44
So you tell me who's having an inappropriate emotional response.
This so much! I'm so glad someone recognized it! Thank you Zicdeh!
Lakshmi.Flavin
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 18466
By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-07-07 12:07:50
Ok I'm going to break this down for you... Mos, speaking about circumcision, says people have done it to conform in contrast to religious motivation. You reply with: Don't forget to substitute genital mutilation for being a good husband to help ensure fidelity. You wouldn't want to treat your wife like a human being; just take away her ability to enjoy sex. Much easier The point being that you get on these kicks and then make ridiculous replies that have no place in the conversation. In no way was he talking about female genital mutilation and it was obvious. As a regular poster I lurk now? Don't flatter yourself lol... Your comments are mostly HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE and inspired by what seems like some kind of righteous indignation. vHalf the time I think you're blind to what's actually being discussed but only come in to say how *** up you think something is lol... then leave with blood pressure way above normal...
We all lurk, in the sense I'm using the word. I just had a feeling it would trigger a response from you.
I actually took his initial statement as an "escalation" of bad reasons to engage in genital mutilation. Sorry, I didn't think he was actually presenting a valid talking point. It is clearer in hindsight that he was.
I think it's all part of the discussion of a problem, just varying degrees of severity.
Edit: Also, what you try to hyperbolize as "righteous indignation" and somehow morph into something unreasonable is, in my opinion, reasonable disgust at an injustice and/or inappropriate action. You judge me for having a negative emotional response. I judge you for being okay with it. It's obviously something upon which we disagree, but in the past few weeks you've called me HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE, called me piece of ***, and -- though I may be recalling this one incorrectly -- have actually intimated I should commit suicide.
So you tell me who's having an inappropriate emotional response. I don't get how you thought your reply to Mosin would trigger a respsonse from me but ok.
So you basically just dismissed him as not putting forth a valid point because you didn't really even take the time to read it which you can now clearly see what he was doing... ok...
Circumcision is not a problem. Female genital mutilation is a problem.
There's no exageration when I use the term righteous indignation in reference to you... You always have some cause you know little about but don't like and then go on some sort of rampage about it. Judge me for whatever you like lol... 90% of the time you don't even have any idea what my position actually is before you judge me on it... not that I'd really care either way. This has nothing to do with judging you for an emotional response anyways so I don't know why you're even talking about that... It has to do with what you always do... Responding without actually reading or thinking about what you're responding to. That should take you back to when I called you a real piece of ***and you should look at all the things you accused me of to get you to that point lol... How many things you misconstrued and painted as what they were not before you raged out and quit because I was appearantly the reason your blood pressure was rising lol...
As for calling you a retard I said your comments are mostly HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE not you but I shouldn't be surprised that you can't tell the difference. As for "intimating you commite suicide" that was in response to your call for killing all kinds of criminals and showing your support for abortions because of planetary overcrowding. If you're so aware of the problem and looking to fix it why not offer yourself up as a sacrifice for the rest of us instead of telling us how you think all these people should just die and you are in a place to make that judgement call. That was right before you went off on your kick about me being all super religious and that I should be ashamed and a bunch of other things for even suggesting the thought! Which you soon had to backpedal on as you made assumptions and reacted again without actually knowing anything about me lol...
As for me making an emotional response that's pretty laughable especially in this situation...
Lakshmi.Flavin
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 18466
By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-07-07 12:11:15
I don't feel strongly enough about it to call it a "travesty", but I mean...how strongly do you care about society's thoughts about your kid's wanger? Why do you care about other people's wangers so much?
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20130
By Shiva.Nikolce 2014-07-07 12:14:38
So... how about we just boycott hobby lobby.... rather than mutilating our genitals in protest?
I love sulu as much as anyone, but I am only willing to go so far in his fight to buy cheap chinese do it yourself bedazzled hair bow kits and picture frames....
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Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 125
By Asura.Triffle 2014-07-07 12:17:50
Ok I'm going to break this down for you... Mos, speaking about circumcision, says people have done it to conform in contrast to religious motivation. You reply with: Don't forget to substitute genital mutilation for being a good husband to help ensure fidelity. You wouldn't want to treat your wife like a human being; just take away her ability to enjoy sex. Much easier The point being that you get on these kicks and then make ridiculous replies that have no place in the conversation. In no way was he talking about female genital mutilation and it was obvious. As a regular poster I lurk now? Don't flatter yourself lol... Your comments are mostly HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE and inspired by what seems like some kind of righteous indignation. vHalf the time I think you're blind to what's actually being discussed but only come in to say how *** up you think something is lol... then leave with blood pressure way above normal...
We all lurk, in the sense I'm using the word. I just had a feeling it would trigger a response from you.
I actually took his initial statement as an "escalation" of bad reasons to engage in genital mutilation. Sorry, I didn't think he was actually presenting a valid talking point. It is clearer in hindsight that he was.
I think it's all part of the discussion of a problem, just varying degrees of severity.
Edit: Also, what you try to hyperbolize as "righteous indignation" and somehow morph into something unreasonable is, in my opinion, reasonable disgust at an injustice and/or inappropriate action. You judge me for having a negative emotional response. I judge you for being okay with it. It's obviously something upon which we disagree, but in the past few weeks you've called me HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE, called me piece of ***, and -- though I may be recalling this one incorrectly -- have actually intimated I should commit suicide.
So you tell me who's having an inappropriate emotional response. I don't get how you thought your reply to Mosin would trigger a respsonse from me but ok.
So you basically just dismissed him as not putting forth a valid point because you didn't really even take the time to read it which you can now clearly see what he was doing... ok...
Circumcision is not a problem. Female genital mutilation is a problem.
There's no exageration when I use the term righteous indignation in reference to you... You always have some cause you know little about but don't like and then go on some sort of rampage about it. Judge me for whatever you like lol... 90% of the time you don't even have any idea what my position actually is before you judge me on it... not that I'd really care either way. This has nothing to do with judging you for an emotional response anyways so I don't know why you're even talking about that... It has to do with what you always do... Responding without actually reading or thinking about what you're responding to. That should take you back to when I called you a real piece of ***and you should look at all the things you accused me of to get you to that point lol... How many things you misconstrued and painted as what they were not before you raged out and quit because I was appearantly the reason your blood pressure was rising lol...
As for calling you a retard I said your comments are mostly HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE not you but I shouldn't be surprised that you can't tell the difference. As for "intimating you commite suicide" that was in response to your call for killing all kinds of criminals and showing your support for abortions because of planetary overcrowding. If you're so aware of the problem and looking to fix it why not offer yourself up as a sacrifice for the rest of us instead of telling us how you think all these people should just die and you are in a place to make that judgement call. That was right before you went off on your kick about me being all super religious and that I should be ashamed and a bunch of other things for even suggesting the thought! Which you soon had to backpedal on as you made assumptions and reacted again without actually knowing anything about me lol...
As for me making an emotional response that's pretty laughable especially in this situation...
So much overemotional butthurt...
Wow he isn't giving up!
George Takei: What if Muslims Owned Hobby Lobby and Tried Imposing Sharia Law on Employees?
Quote: I’ve often said that these conservatives wading into the tricky waters of claiming “religious freedom” to justify breaking (or passing) laws should really be careful what they wish for. It’s advice I’d give to all of those conservatives who are celebrating the Supreme Court’s Hobby Lobby ruling.
And based on his brilliant response to that ruling, George Takei seems to be an individual who understands this as well.
Posting his response on the website for his play Allegiance, Takei made several fantastic points concerning not only the hypocrisy of this ruling, but the dangerous precedent it could set going forward.
Takei wrote, “The ruling elevates the rights of a FOR-PROFIT CORPORATION over those of its women employees and opens the door to all manner of claims that a company can refuse services based on its owner’s religion.”
“Think about the ramifications: As Justice Ginsberg’s stinging dissent pointed out, companies run by Scientologists could refuse to cover antidepressants, and those run by Jews or Hindus could refuse to cover medications derived from pigs (such as many anesthetics, intravenous fluids, or medications coated in gelatin).” he continued.
And that’s the slippery slope for which this ruling potentially opens the door. Where will the line be drawn where you say to a company, “Sorry, but your religious beliefs aren’t protected?”
What if someone who owns a corporation is anti-vaccine? What if they then say it’s against their religious beliefs for their company to offer health care that covers vaccines? Based upon this Supreme Court ruling, they could theoretically be within their rights to claim that.
But the best point Takei made was in a direct shot at right-wing ignorance. He wrote, “In this case, the owners happen to be deeply Christian; one wonders whether the case would have come out differently if a Muslim-run chain business attempted to impose Sharia law on its employees.”
As we all know, when these conservatives talk about “religious freedoms” they’re really only referring to Christianity.
He also went on to make the point that Hobby Lobby has invested in companies which produce the morning after pill and it gets much of its inventory from China, a country where forced abortions are common.
In other words, they’re blatant hypocrites.
“Hobby Lobby is not a church. It’s a business — and a big one at that,” Takei continued. “Businesses must and should be required to comply with neutrally crafted laws of general applicability. Your boss should not have a say over your healthcare. Once the law starts permitting exceptions based on “sincerely held religious beliefs” there’s no end to the mischief and discrimination that will ensue. Indeed, this is the same logic that certain restaurants and hotels have been trying to deploy to allow proprietors to refuse service to gay couples.”
Once again, he’s absolutely right.
For some reason conservatives seem to think that a lack of options equates to “more” freedom. Before this ruling, women working at Hobby Lobby had the option to have access to these contraceptives. Now they won’t.
If the owners of Hobby Lobby reject specific types of contraceptives, that’s fine. They don’t have to use them. But now their beliefs are being imposed on women who might not share those same beliefs.
Take a good look, because that’s how an employer can determine an employee’s health care coverage. Because a woman working at Hobby Lobby now can’t get health care coverage for certain contraceptives, not because she’s against them, but because her employer is.
How exactly is that respecting her religious freedoms?
Takei also points out religion is a way many conservatives have tried justifying discrimination against homosexuals. These “religious freedom” bills that essentially give businesses the right to deny service to homosexuals based on their religious beliefs.
The bottom line is, religion has no place in government or in business. If someone wants to express their religious views to others, they need to start a church – not a for-profit corporation.
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