Random Politics & Religion #00

Not sure if anyone posted this one yet:

http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/43490/random-politics-religion/787/#2932638

You [+]'d it, lol

What will? Trying to alleviate the root causes of dissatisfaction as much as possible: isolation, economic/opportunity disparity, persecution/revenge. But those aren't short term measures, either.

The conspiracy theories grew wilder as the massive military exercise grew closer: food riots and martial law were coming to the United States, some said.

Dissidents would be assassinated, Wal-Marts turned into prison camps, foreign troops brought in to help.

Then the governor of Texas lent credence to the paranoia by ordering the state's National Guard to monitor a weekslong special operations training exercise called Jade Helm 15 involving 1,200 troops and seven states.

Some people reportedly buried their guns so government troops couldn't take them away. Others stockpiled ammunition and supplies.

A group called "Counter Jade Helm" helped organize quasi-militias to keep track of troop movements.

Jade Helm began last week not with a bang, but a whimper.

Bastrop, Texas -- the scene of a rowdy public meeting where people held up signs declaring "no Gestapo in Bastropo" and wore t-shirts with the words "come and take it" under a drawing of an automatic rifle -- was eerily calm on the third day of the exercise.

Nobody seemed to have seen any of the troops, or the out-of-town conspiracy theorists who vowed to watch their every move.

"We haven't gotten a single call," said Steve Adcock, chief of police in the town of about 7,000.

"We thought that there might be something, but nothing's occurred."

Local officials and some residents resent the attention the protests have drawn.

Bastrop is just a few miles from Camp Swift, a National Guard storage and training facility.

People who live here are strong supporters of the military, Adcock said. He didn't recognize any of the people who angrily challenged an Army colonel at April's rowdy public meeting.

"A lot of the conspiracy stuff is not local people," Adcock told AFP.

"It's making us look really bad."

Kay Rogers, a Bastrop lawyer, said a small minority of local citizens supported the protests.

"If you talk to 10 people about it, only one of them will even raise an eyebrow," she said. "We have a bunch of fringe elements in the county and they squawk pretty loud."

- 'Re-education camps' -

But while the wildest theories like how the government is building re-education camps for Christians, libertarians and other "enemies of the state" may seem outlandish, the underlying fear is widespread.

Some 60 percent of Americans see the government as a "threat to individual liberty," according to a poll conducted by Rasmussen in May.

Two thirds of respondents said they were concerned the government will use military training operations "to impose greater control over the states" yet, oddly, only 16 percent opposed having these exercises in their state.

The Army spent months trying to reassure people that the public would experience "little disruption" to their normal lives aside from "a slight increase in vehicle traffic and the limited use of military aircraft and its associated noise."

Lieutenant Colonel Mark Lastoria got visibly flustered after the lengthy Bastrop meeting erupted in applause when he was called a liar.

"It is not a preparation for martial law," he said with a sigh audible on a video of the meeting.

"Some people really, truly want to make this something it's not. All we want to do is make sure our guys are trained for combat overseas."

Efforts to create a realistic exercise by having some troops "conduct suspicious activity" while dressed as civilians -- and a map that labeled Texas and Utah as "hostile territory" -- played into the fears of people convinced the government is out to get them.

"This is by far the greatest public conditioning exercise in American history," Gary Franchi of the online Next News Network ominously warned his viewers.

"US military coordinating with local law enforcement and elements of the willing public will be conducting clandestine activities carrying weapons under aircraft cover at night wearing arm bands with a special insignia."

Martial law may not happen this summer, Franchi intoned. But when the times comes: "Troops will be ready and trained to take over your town."

because it's worked so well in palestine?

I'm not going to tell you how you should argue your point... but even though past performance is no guarantee for future success, I would think you would point to some example where this has worked?

but besides that...what makes you think isis wants to end economic disparity? or isolation?

have you seen isis cut off people's heads and burn men alive in cages?

and then you think they are merely dissatisfied? with a disparity in opportunity? are you really that naive?

I don't think that you know these men, or what they are fighting for, or what they want, nor the lengths they are willing to go to get it.

I don't think you understand them at all.

I should clarify: alleviating dissatisfaction reduces their foreign recruiting / support structure.

Martial law may not happen this summer, Franchi intoned. But when the times comes: "Troops will be ready and trained to take over your town."

where are you getting this stuff? it sounds like elizabeth warren's talking points memo

Observation and analysis of similar groups across recorded history, among other things?

me neither....

had either of you two ding dongs actually read the article you might have noticed that it agrees with aman,

ISIS recruitment success has nothing to do with economics and more about being part of something bigger than yourself and having a purpose...

because it's worked so well in palestine?

I'm not going to tell you how you should argue your point... but even though past performance is no guarantee for future success, I would think you would point to some example where this has worked?

but besides that...what makes you think isis wants to end economic disparity? or isolation?

have you seen isis cut off people's heads and burn men alive in cages?

and then you think they are merely dissatisfied? with a disparity in opportunity? are you really that naive?

I don't think that you know these men, or what they are fighting for, or what they want, nor the lengths they are willing to go to get it.

I don't think you understand them at all.

I think you both are talking about two very different elements.

A few hundred people are the exception to a few million.

...so

Not only celebrities have the crazy ideas of buying islands! Pierre Rusconi, representative of the swiss parliament intends to actually incite the swiss goverment to buy a piece of Greece so that Switzerland would have its own sea access.

And I joked when some weeks ago I said that other countries were gonna buy Greece. The dismemberment begins!

you got a list of these groups you have analyzed there professor?

you got a list of these groups you have analyzed there professor?

we'll just send wave after wave of peace corps volunteers until their knives get dull and they run out of gasoline and they get tired... then we'll drop a couple of prefab starbucks in there and make them baristas...

thats a great plan zapp brannigan


here's your orange frappuccino sir, death to america

Yes, it's a very common tactic on P&R to try to change what the argument is about, rather than admit you are wrong.

"Amand stated that a lot middle class educated individuals were crossing over to IS. Which he can't back up because the statistic does not exist."

that isn't exactly what he said but so what.. if the statistic doesn't exist, how is his claim any more ludicrous that yours that they are poor and disenfranchised?

ok so bin laden, is one example of aman's point. he was quite wealthy and well educated...

so then to dispute that claim you would post some statistic or example that contradicted this claim not try to change the argument to there was "only 200 coming from the us" what the hell difference does that make?

Jassik said

which doesn't even make any sense. a few million what? people that didn't join isis?

so ostensibly the 200 from the US stat was supposed to support jassik's "few hundred" claim.

but it doesn't

it attempts to change the argument to the number of people coming from the usa WHICH NOBODY IS ARGUING

also, nothing in that stat says they are poor or disenfranchised.

So, I'm watching the argument from outside and commenting that your husband's post was full of ***. And he tried to spin away from it again and change the argument again.

So... in closing you are absolutely correct that we are talking about different elements. But it's mil's fault!

I know Mil meant well and was trying to validate jassik, but he was wrong because it didn't strengthen or support jassik's argument....or anyone elses...

His post was bad and he should feel bad for posting it!

Yes, it's a very common tactic on P&R to try to change what the argument is about, rather than admit you are wrong.

"Amand stated that a lot middle class educated individuals were crossing over to IS. Which he can't back up because the statistic does not exist."

that isn't exactly what he said but so what.. if the statistic doesn't exist, how is his claim any more ludicrous that yours that they are poor and disenfranchised?

ok so bin laden, is one example of aman's point. he was quite wealthy and well educated...

so then to dispute that claim you would post some statistic or example that contradicted this claim not try to change the argument to there was "only 200 coming from the us" what the hell difference does that make?

Jassik said

which doesn't even make any sense. a few million what? people that didn't join isis?

so ostensibly the 200 from the US stat was supposed to support jassik's "few hundred" claim.

but it doesn't

it attempts to change the argument to the number of people coming from the usa WHICH NOBODY IS ARGUING

also, nothing in that stat says they are poor or disenfranchised.

So, I'm watching the argument from outside and commenting that your husband's post was full of ***. And he tried to spin away from it again and change the argument again.

So... in closing you are absolutely correct that we are talking about different elements. But it's mil's fault!

I know Mil meant well and was trying to validate jassik, but he was wrong because it didn't strengthen or support jassik's argument....or anyone elses...

His post was bad and he should feel bad for posting it!

Yes, it's a very common tactic on P&R to try to change what the argument is about, rather than admit you are wrong.

"Amand stated that a lot middle class educated individuals were crossing over to IS. Which he can't back up because the statistic does not exist."

that isn't exactly what he said but so what.. if the statistic doesn't exist, how is his claim any more ludicrous that yours that they are poor and disenfranchised?

It is not a rare exception. Many well education middle-class people are flocking to ISIS.

Describe for me the shitty quality of life the shooter in Tennessee had? Poor guy only had an Electrical Engineering degree with his whole life ahead of him living in his little nice neighborhood without a care in the world.

ok so bin laden, is one example of aman's point. he was quite wealthy and well educated...

So... in closing you are absolutely correct that we are talking about different elements. But it's mil's fault!

He was trying to argue that a lot of affluent westerners join ISIS as a counterpoint to poverty being a factor.

It's almost what he said.

but it is by no means exclusive based on income.

Sicarii
Fenian Brotherhood
Sheikh Said rebellion
Ararat rebellion
Aum Shinrikyo
Hui Minorities War
The various forms of IRA over the mid-late 1900s

ok for starters the sicarii all killed themselves they weren't won over by economic reform... /keeps reading

all the Sheikh Said were mercilessly hunted down and hanged...
/rubs temples

were any of them quelled with hugs and economic reform!?

he said they were "middle class" which is a pretty broad stroke and nobody has shown any statistics that the people going there from the us and europe aren't. Kara said "the information the general public receives from these various analysts is not complete."
and then went on to agree with me further "The leaders of organizations typically have had an education and some money"

were any of them quelled with hugs and economic reform!?

Nobody has contested that there are middle class westerners joining them, they just aren't a large enough portion of the organization to make the leap that poverty isn't a factor/major factor in ISIS's recruitment success at home.

YOU DID!!! that's how this whole crapfest started!

/fume motion
/boiling teapot noise

No, I didn't. I said a few hundred people isn't a significant amount of their ranks as to exclude poverty as a factor in their recruiting success. The middle class westerners joining ISIS make up a maximum of 1% of the organization. If 99% of a group was poor, would you say that poverty wasn't a factor in their actions?