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Random Politics & Religion #00
Server: Shiva
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Posts: 20130
By Shiva.Nikolce 2015-06-05 13:45:32
Ugh, let's not even get into Common Core. It sucks and everyone knows it sucks. It's a big 'ol government Band-Aid that wasn't even applied in the right spot.
but I think the whole common core debate illustrates the main problem with changing anything.... people are idiots.
It's a perfect example of how centralized authority and one size fits all planning are massive failures. education in california should be planned by people in california and people in DC should have nothing to do with it, let alone be able to force feed everyone in the country what they think is best.
but it is really too much to ask from everyone that graduates high school to be able to read english and balance a checkbook?
they are going to need sentences to argue on the internet!
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By Ramyrez 2015-06-05 13:49:12
Ugh, let's not even get into Common Core. It sucks and everyone knows it sucks. It's a big 'ol government Band-Aid that wasn't even applied in the right spot.
but I think the whole common core debate illustrates the main problem with changing anything.... people are idiots.
It's a perfect example of how centralized authority and one size fits all planning are massive failures. education in california should be planned by people in california and people in DC should have nothing to do with it, let alone be able to force feed everyone in the country what they think is best.
but it is really too much to ask from everyone that graduates high school to be able to read english and balance a checkbook?
they are going to need sentences to argue on the internet!
Bit of column A, bit of column B.
Setting standards: good. Dictating curriculums: bad...directly or otherwise. Proponents of common core like to claim it doesn't do it, even though it does in practice.
Edit: Though I will say some dicated guidelines are good. Teaching religious nonsense in public schools, Young Earth nonsense, etc...that's gotta go. Those Texas school books from a while back should definitely have to be shot down by someone...
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Server: Odin
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By Odin.Jassik 2015-06-05 13:50:20
Ugh, let's not even get into Common Core. It sucks and everyone knows it sucks. It's a big 'ol government Band-Aid that wasn't even applied in the right spot.
but I think the whole common core debate illustrates the main problem with changing anything.... people are idiots.
It's a perfect example of how centralized authority and one size fits all planning are massive failures. education in california should be planned by people in california and people in DC should have nothing to do with it, let alone be able to force feed everyone in the country what they think is best.
Plan their implementation, sure, but not the curriculum. I take it you never moved or not very far while in school. I have a cousin who read the same book 3 times in 3 different grades because school districts have the ability to decide which grade to teach certain classes. In this case, 3 schools in the same state had Catcher in the Rye as a required book in 3 different grades. There are serious merits to national standards, especially when some states are trying to have textbooks rewritten to teach creationism in natural science classes and pushing for Arithmetic because Algebra is too confusing.
Server: Shiva
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2015-06-05 13:53:59
I have a cousin who read the same book 3 times
I bet he didn't read it even once...
/gives him a pop quiz
yup, just what I figured
/stamp
F
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Server: Odin
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By Odin.Jassik 2015-06-05 13:54:54
I have a cousin who read the same book 3 times
I bet he didn't read it even once...
/gives him a pop quiz
yup, just what I figured
/stamp
F
I think he actually read the book the second time, first time he probably did the Cliff's Notes.
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Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20130
By Shiva.Nikolce 2015-06-05 13:56:59
Nik pretends he has a weather control machine
way to lay the bar right on the ground ramy...>.> why don't you build a wheelchair ramp running down hill right over it...
of course if we used Nik as the yardstick everyone else would look normal...
pfffft.
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By Ramyrez 2015-06-05 14:00:55
Nik pretends he has a weather control machine
way to lay the bar right on the ground ramy...>.> why don't you build a wheelchair ramp running down hill right over it...
of course if we used Nik as the yardstick everyone else would look normal...
pfffft. 
Sorry. Ice cream to make it up to you?
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 Bahamut.Ravael
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13640
By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-06-05 14:07:36
Ugh, let's not even get into Common Core. It sucks and everyone knows it sucks. It's a big 'ol government Band-Aid that wasn't even applied in the right spot.
but I think the whole common core debate illustrates the main problem with changing anything.... people are idiots.
It's a perfect example of how centralized authority and one size fits all planning are massive failures. education in california should be planned by people in california and people in DC should have nothing to do with it, let alone be able to force feed everyone in the country what they think is best.
Plan their implementation, sure, but not the curriculum. I take it you never moved or not very far while in school. I have a cousin who read the same book 3 times in 3 different grades because school districts have the ability to decide which grade to teach certain classes. In this case, 3 schools in the same state had Catcher in the Rye as a required book in 3 different grades. There are serious merits to national standards, especially when some states are trying to have textbooks rewritten to teach creationism in natural science classes and pushing for Arithmetic because Algebra is too confusing.
No. A curriculum planned by DC is a curriculum subject to shifting political whimsy. Come on, libertarian, you should know better.
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Server: Odin
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By Odin.Jassik 2015-06-05 14:11:01
Ugh, let's not even get into Common Core. It sucks and everyone knows it sucks. It's a big 'ol government Band-Aid that wasn't even applied in the right spot.
but I think the whole common core debate illustrates the main problem with changing anything.... people are idiots.
It's a perfect example of how centralized authority and one size fits all planning are massive failures. education in california should be planned by people in california and people in DC should have nothing to do with it, let alone be able to force feed everyone in the country what they think is best.
Plan their implementation, sure, but not the curriculum. I take it you never moved or not very far while in school. I have a cousin who read the same book 3 times in 3 different grades because school districts have the ability to decide which grade to teach certain classes. In this case, 3 schools in the same state had Catcher in the Rye as a required book in 3 different grades. There are serious merits to national standards, especially when some states are trying to have textbooks rewritten to teach creationism in natural science classes and pushing for Arithmetic because Algebra is too confusing.
No. A curriculum planned by DC is a curriculum subject to shifting political whimsy. Come on, libertarian, you should know better.
Planned by DC? No, a curriculum planned by educators and academics, independent of political motivations, special interest, or public opinion. You know, the people who actually know what they're talking about and have a credible professional opinion.
I want the government to stay out of our personal lives, but I want an educated electorate, an entire generation who are scientifically literate, understand literary principals, aren't scared of things that aren't Arabic numerals, etc.
Server: Shiva
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Posts: 20130
By Shiva.Nikolce 2015-06-05 14:22:41
get used to disappointment...
Bahamut.Ravael
Server: Bahamut
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Posts: 13640
By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-06-05 14:43:22
Planned by DC? No, a curriculum planned by educators and academics, independent of political motivations, special interest, or public opinion. You know, the people who actually know what they're talking about and have a credible professional opinion. I want the government to stay out of our personal lives, but I want an educated electorate, an entire generation who are scientifically literate, understand literary principals, aren't scared of things that aren't Arabic numerals, etc.
So, people like the geniuses behind Common Core, or a different group of geniuses? And who would appoint these geniuses? This idea of a group of people in charge of selecting what the nation's youth would be taught is great in theory, but there's no way that "political motivations, special interests, or public opinion" would not come into play. Academics are driven by politics on a regular basis, and it's naive to think they would be able to pull off something on such a grand scale without it.
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By Odin.Jassik 2015-06-05 14:48:38
Planned by DC? No, a curriculum planned by educators and academics, independent of political motivations, special interest, or public opinion. You know, the people who actually know what they're talking about and have a credible professional opinion. I want the government to stay out of our personal lives, but I want an educated electorate, an entire generation who are scientifically literate, understand literary principals, aren't scared of things that aren't Arabic numerals, etc.
So, people like the geniuses behind Common Core, or a different group of geniuses? And who would appoint these geniuses? This idea of a group of people in charge of selecting what the nation's youth would be taught is great in theory, but there's no way that "political motivations, special interests, or public opinion" would not come into play. Academics are driven by politics on a regular basis, and it's naive to think they would be able to pull off something on such a grand scale without it.
Common Core is a step in the right direction, but you're basically saying that because it would be difficult, we should continue to let our academic metrics slide further and further behind the rest of the modern world. I mean, those Estonians must be cooking the numbers.
Server: Shiva
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2015-06-05 14:50:23
the geniuses behind Common Core,
it's one of those "hole in the bucket" problems we wouldn't be in now if we were smart enough to figure a way out of it...
YouTube Video Placeholder
and good luck getting anyone in europe to help us.... buncha snobs
 Leviathan.Chaosx
Server: Leviathan
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Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-06-05 15:15:02
Poor Rooks.
This is not the type of thread you were looking forward to patrolling.
Bahamut.Ravael
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13640
By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-06-05 15:25:21
Planned by DC? No, a curriculum planned by educators and academics, independent of political motivations, special interest, or public opinion. You know, the people who actually know what they're talking about and have a credible professional opinion. I want the government to stay out of our personal lives, but I want an educated electorate, an entire generation who are scientifically literate, understand literary principals, aren't scared of things that aren't Arabic numerals, etc.
So, people like the geniuses behind Common Core, or a different group of geniuses? And who would appoint these geniuses? This idea of a group of people in charge of selecting what the nation's youth would be taught is great in theory, but there's no way that "political motivations, special interests, or public opinion" would not come into play. Academics are driven by politics on a regular basis, and it's naive to think they would be able to pull off something on such a grand scale without it.
Common Core is a step in the right direction, but you're basically saying that because it would be difficult, we should continue to let our academic metrics slide further and further behind the rest of the modern world. I mean, those Estonians must be cooking the numbers.
Estonia? The U.S. has 240 times as many people as Estonia. Why do people insist on comparing tiny European countries to the U.S.? Assuming that what they do would automatically work here is like assuming that a Massachusetts healthcare system would automatically work nationwide.
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Server: Odin
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By Odin.Jassik 2015-06-05 15:38:10
Planned by DC? No, a curriculum planned by educators and academics, independent of political motivations, special interest, or public opinion. You know, the people who actually know what they're talking about and have a credible professional opinion. I want the government to stay out of our personal lives, but I want an educated electorate, an entire generation who are scientifically literate, understand literary principals, aren't scared of things that aren't Arabic numerals, etc.
So, people like the geniuses behind Common Core, or a different group of geniuses? And who would appoint these geniuses? This idea of a group of people in charge of selecting what the nation's youth would be taught is great in theory, but there's no way that "political motivations, special interests, or public opinion" would not come into play. Academics are driven by politics on a regular basis, and it's naive to think they would be able to pull off something on such a grand scale without it.
Common Core is a step in the right direction, but you're basically saying that because it would be difficult, we should continue to let our academic metrics slide further and further behind the rest of the modern world. I mean, those Estonians must be cooking the numbers.
Estonia? The U.S. has 240 times as many people as Estonia. Why do people insist on comparing tiny European countries to the U.S.? Assuming that what they do would automatically work here is like assuming that a Massachusetts healthcare system would automatically work nationwide.
Moreso that a tiny European country with a fraction of the per capita GDP of the USA is able to surpass us in virtually every metric that matters. The number of people is irrelevant, it's nothing more than a crutch for people with no better ideas. China does better than us, they have ~4 times as many people as we do.
Leviathan.Chaosx
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-06-05 15:46:39
Assuming that what they do would automatically work here is like assuming that a Massachusetts healthcare system would automatically work nationwide. Sounds familiar.
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Leviathan.Chaosx
Server: Leviathan
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Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-06-05 15:48:11
You're forgetting something that America has that most European and Asian countries don't have. Diversity. China, European countries are largely homogeneous.
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Bahamut.Ravael
Server: Bahamut
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Posts: 13640
By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-06-05 15:48:32
China does better than us, they have ~4 times as many people as we do.
China does better than us? By what metric? Certainly not by the United Nations Education Index. Then again, only four countries beat us according to that. You'll have to be more specific.
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Leviathan.Chaosx
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-06-05 15:52:24
I'm writing an academic article on NFL and domestic abuse for Chinese university students right now. Just finished the one on Flight 370 about an hour ago.
The pay... It brought me out of retirement.
Lakshmi.Rooks
Administrator
Server: Lakshmi
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Posts: 1566
By Lakshmi.Rooks 2015-06-05 15:57:56
Poor Rooks.
This is not the type of thread you were looking forward to patrolling.
Honestly, I've been surprised at how much calmer it's been than I expected.
It's the Internet; I assume everyone is a hate-filled sociopath actively attempting to defraud and/or harm me, and work backwards from there. Even P+R has been a country club, all things considered.
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Leviathan.Chaosx
Server: Leviathan
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Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-06-05 15:59:09
That's the spirit!
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Server: Odin
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By Odin.Jassik 2015-06-05 16:02:36
China does better than us, they have ~4 times as many people as we do.
China does better than us? By what metric? Certainly not by the United Nations Education Index. Then again, only four countries beat us according to that. You'll have to be more specific.
Attendance, completion, advancement, etc. That's according to the UN. They outrank us in Science and Math literacy test scores, also according to the UN. Are you going by the HDI or actual categories?
HDI considers GDP and PPP, which heavily skews the US's rankings.
Leviathan.Chaosx
Server: Leviathan
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Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-06-05 16:05:24
China does better than us, they have ~4 times as many people as we do.
China does better than us? By what metric? Certainly not by the United Nations Education Index. Then again, only four countries beat us according to that. You'll have to be more specific.
Attendance, completion, advancement, etc. That's according to the UN. They outrank us in Science and Math literacy test scores, also according to the UN. Are you going by the HDI or actual categories?
HDI considers GDP and PPP, which heavily skews the US's rankings. I think he's looking at this chart: http://hdr.undp.org/en/content/education-index
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Bahamut.Ravael
Server: Bahamut
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Posts: 13640
By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-06-05 16:07:55
China does better than us, they have ~4 times as many people as we do.
China does better than us? By what metric? Certainly not by the United Nations Education Index. Then again, only four countries beat us according to that. You'll have to be more specific.
Attendance, completion, advancement, etc. That's according to the UN. They outrank us in Science and Math literacy test scores, also according to the UN. Are you going by the HDI or actual categories?
HDI considers GDP and PPP, which heavily skews the US's rankings.
No, the Education Index, which is a category inside of HDI.
Here are categories within the Education Index, according to the U.N.
You'll have to link what you're referencing, because I have no idea what you're talking about.
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Server: Odin
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By Odin.Jassik 2015-06-05 16:18:46
China does better than us, they have ~4 times as many people as we do.
China does better than us? By what metric? Certainly not by the United Nations Education Index. Then again, only four countries beat us according to that. You'll have to be more specific.
Attendance, completion, advancement, etc. That's according to the UN. They outrank us in Science and Math literacy test scores, also according to the UN. Are you going by the HDI or actual categories?
HDI considers GDP and PPP, which heavily skews the US's rankings.
No, the Education Index, which is a category inside of HDI.
Here are categories within the Education Index, according to the U.N.
You'll have to link what you're referencing, because I have no idea what you're talking about.
Which is weighted toward attendance, years of schooling, and % of GDP, adult literacy... all areas where the US has a solid 50 year head start on most of the other nations. It also doesn't weigh the efficacy of their educational systems. If we were talking about attendance or spending, that index would matter, but we're talking about efficacy.
NCES
PISA Results
Bahamut.Ravael
Server: Bahamut
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-06-05 16:24:35
Eh, even then, it only measures small, prolific areas of China and not the entire country. Every metric that talks about the entire country places them way below us. Thus, China does better than us, they have ~4 times as many people as we do. is full of crap.
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Leviathan.Chaosx
Server: Leviathan
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-06-05 16:28:59
The Chinese have an excellent work ethic though.
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Server: Odin
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By Odin.Jassik 2015-06-05 16:37:45
Eh, even then, it only measures small, prolific areas of China and not the entire country. Every metric that talks about the entire country places them way below us. Thus, China does better than us, they have ~4 times as many people as we do. is full of crap.
Right, because certain areas of the US don't drastically offset others... There's little data on rural China for the 2012 PISA, but since their population has shifted so dramatically away from rural areas into urban in the last few years, we'll revisit this after the 2015 PISA numbers come out. You tout the education index because it supports your assertion, ignoring the fact that things like adult literacy in countries where a couple decades ago most people were rural farmers with zero education are incredibly dubious.
Don't you find it abhorrent that countries that 30 years ago had over 50% of their population living without ELECTRICITY are knocking on our doorstep in test scores?
Leviathan.Chaosx
Server: Leviathan
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-06-05 16:45:53
Enough of this tomfoolery, I have Chinese students depending on me for their educational needs.
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/bow
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