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Random Politics & Religion #00
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-08-26 08:38:22
If a conservative admits Tax Credits are functionally subsidies, they'd be faced with the harsh reality that 90% of the Republican states are just burdens of the federal government.
And how would that look when you're propped up on a mound of Mississippi mud screaming to the locals about "big gubbment in ya lyves." Tax Credits are not subsidies.
Subsidies are money received before the expense/service takes place. That is why it is called a subsidy.
Money received after the expense/service takes place is called a reimbursement.
Edit: Paged, so here's a dolphin
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-08-26 08:39:32
Subsidy - a sum of money granted by the government or a public body to assist an industry or business so that the price of a commodity or service may remain low or competitive.
Tax credits are a form of subsidy.
When the expenses are incurred is irrelevant to the actual definition.
The whole picture is that you feel some need to tie anything you don't like to some liberal ideal, granted to a lesser extent than the usual fruitcakes.
We're arguing about a definition. I don't see what that has to do with a liberal ideal, other than the fact that the definition in question only seems to be supported by our typical forum-goers to promote a liberal-based policy.
Why is subsidizing petroleum and agriculture not liberal biased policy but subsidizing healthcare is?
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2014-08-26 08:40:53
Subsidizing is bad and you should feel bad for doing it!
(4spence!)
 Bismarck.Ramyrez
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-08-26 08:43:28
If a conservative admits Tax Credits are functionally subsidies, they'd be faced with the harsh reality that 90% of the Republican states are just burdens of the federal government.
And how would that look when you're propped up on a mound of Mississippi mud screaming to the locals about "big gubbment in ya lyves." Tax Credits are not subsidies.
Subsidies are money received before the expense/service takes place. That is why it is called a subsidy.
Money received after the expense/service takes place is called a reimbursement.
But they still know they're going to get it. Hence his use of the word "functionally".
Don't really have a horse in this race anymore because I just don't give a *** today about much of anything, but you're arguing semantics. One way or another it's a government-backed benefit they know they'll get.
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By wormfeeder 2014-08-26 08:44:27
By fonewear 2014-08-26 08:45:41
YouTube Video Placeholder
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-08-26 08:46:11
But they still know they're going to get it. Not always.
There are limitations on tax credits. Almost all of the time, credits are limited by taxable income. You can't determine taxable income until you file the return, which can take months to do so.
You can't guarantee tax credits.
Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-08-26 08:46:42
Subsidy - a sum of money granted by the government or a public body to assist an industry or business so that the price of a commodity or service may remain low or competitive.
Tax credits are a form of subsidy.
When the expenses are incurred is irrelevant to the actual definition.
The whole picture is that you feel some need to tie anything you don't like to some liberal ideal, granted to a lesser extent than the usual fruitcakes.
We're arguing about a definition. I don't see what that has to do with a liberal ideal, other than the fact that the definition in question only seems to be supported by our typical forum-goers to promote a liberal-based policy.
Why is subsidizing petroleum and agriculture not liberal biased policy but subsidizing healthcare is?
Because liberals have no problem calling the products of the other subsidized industries subsidized products, but suddenly when it's used in conjunction with medical procedures it's just "insurance coffers" paying for it, not subsidies.
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Bismarck.Ramyrez
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-08-26 08:49:01
But they still know they're going to get it. Not always.
There are limitations on tax credits. Almost all of the time, credits are limited by taxable income. You can't determine taxable income until you file the return, which can take months to do so.
You can't guarantee tax credits.
You can't guarantee, no. But these companies are run by men who have become millionaires by being able to (mostly) accurately predict these things and run their books accordingly.
Like I said, I'm really not taking sides here because...eh. Who the *** cares. Not changing anything here today on a forum.
All I'm saying is it doesn't hurt anything to admit that in a huge percentage of these cases, while they're technically different things, they are functionally similar.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-08-26 08:49:04
Subsidy - a sum of money granted by the government or a public body to assist an industry or business so that the price of a commodity or service may remain low or competitive.
Tax credits are a form of subsidy.
When the expenses are incurred is irrelevant to the actual definition. Quote: sub•si•dy (ˈsʌb sɪ di)
n., pl. -dies.
1. a direct financial aid furnished by a government, as to a private commercial enterprise, an individual, or another government.
2. any grant or contribution of money.
3. money formerly granted by the English Parliament to the crown for special needs.
Tax credits are neither direct financial aid nor any grant or contribution of money.
Like I said before, you are altering the definition to suit your needs.
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By Odin.Zicdeh 2014-08-26 08:49:27
KN just doing his part as an accountant. This is the kind of transparent *** that profession thrives on, three left turns isn't really one right turn, but you end up going the same way.
Edit: Paged, so here's a dolphin
Nature's second best rapist. Does anyone know No1? (Hint: It's not people surprisingly)
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Bismarck.Ramyrez
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-08-26 08:52:55
KN just doing his part as an accountant. This is the kind of transparent *** that profession thrives on, three left turns isn't really one right turn, but you end up going the same way.
Edit: Paged, so here's a dolphin
Nature's second best rapist. Does anyone know No1? (Hint: It's not people surprisingly)
Otters!
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-08-26 08:54:45
All I'm saying is it doesn't hurt anything to admit that in a huge percentage of these cases, while they're technically different things, they are functionally similar. Functionally similar, but inherently different.
Timing of the receipt of money is important, as it is used to determine fraudulent uses of the money.
Subsidies are highly subject to fraud, as after the money is received, it isn't always used for the purpose of the subsidy and is highly unlikely to be recovered if discovered for fraud.
Reimbursements in forms of tax credits are easier to audit, and also easier to recover and/or restrict other forms of credits. The money is already spent, all the government has to do is deny the credit.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-08-26 08:55:57
KN just doing his part as an accountant. This is the kind of transparent *** that profession thrives on, three left turns isn't really one right turn, but you end up going the same way. Taking 3 lefts is an inefficient way of going right. Accountants thrive on efficiency.
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By Odin.Zicdeh 2014-08-26 08:57:02
All I'm saying is it doesn't hurt anything to admit that in a huge percentage of these cases, while they're technically different things, they are functionally similar.
Subsidies are highly subject to fraud, as after the money is received, it isn't always used for the purpose of the subsidy and is highly unlikely to be recovered if discovered for fraud.
.
Solar Roadways just pulled this ***for a cool mil or so, on top of whatever they stole from Indiegogo donors.
KN just doing his part as an accountant. This is the kind of transparent *** that profession thrives on, three left turns isn't really one right turn, but you end up going the same way.
Edit: Paged, so here's a dolphin
[this was a picture of a Dolphin, but we don't need to keep training that]
Nature's second best rapist. Does anyone know No1? (Hint: It's not people surprisingly)
Otters!
Ducks, actually.
 Bismarck.Bloodrose
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By Bismarck.Bloodrose 2014-08-26 08:57:07
KN just doing his part as an accountant. This is the kind of transparent *** that profession thrives on, three left turns isn't really one right turn, but you end up going the same way. Taking 3 lefts is an inefficient way of going right. Accountants thrive on efficiency. Mythbusters busted this myth.
At least in terms of deliverance for goods.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-08-26 08:58:32
Bismarck.Bloodrose said: »KN just doing his part as an accountant. This is the kind of transparent *** that profession thrives on, three left turns isn't really one right turn, but you end up going the same way. Taking 3 lefts is an inefficient way of going right. Accountants thrive on efficiency. Mythbusters busted this myth.
At least in terms of deliverance for goods. Huh?
By volkom 2014-08-26 09:00:15
Bismarck.Bloodrose said: »KN just doing his part as an accountant. This is the kind of transparent *** that profession thrives on, three left turns isn't really one right turn, but you end up going the same way. Taking 3 lefts is an inefficient way of going right. Accountants thrive on efficiency. Mythbusters busted this myth.
At least in terms of deliverance for goods. Huh?
easier to make rights than lefts
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By Odin.Zicdeh 2014-08-26 09:00:16
KN just doing his part as an accountant. This is the kind of transparent *** that profession thrives on, three left turns isn't really one right turn, but you end up going the same way. Taking 3 lefts is an inefficient way of going right. Accountants thrive on efficiency.
Well, I wasn't really talking about Accounting so much as I was talking about dancing around government policy. Finding loopholes and what not.
I felt the need to clear that up if it looked like I was bashing your profession.
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2014-08-26 09:02:44
to put it in a perspective non accountants can understand...
it's the difference between a getting a coupon at a grocery store for something you purchased vs. getting food stamps to purchase the product... and then getting a coupon.
the problem conservatives have with subsidies is nothing has been done to earn them. they are not a reward for "good behavior", they are a hand out you "qualify" for by filling out the appropriate paperwork...
but since nothing has been done to earn them their value is not realized by the recipient.
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Bismarck.Ramyrez
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-08-26 09:03:31
Huh. I was sure it would be Otters. They even go outside their species.
I would have guessed chickens before ducks. I'm pretty pro-duck, though. Have you ever hung around with ducks? They're awesome.
In fact, I've never seen a duck perpetrate rape. I've seen chickens do it constantly though.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-08-26 09:04:13
Finding loopholes and what not. You know, I have asked people here multiple times to define a tax "loophole" and nobody has responded....
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-08-26 09:04:47
Subsidy - a sum of money granted by the government or a public body to assist an industry or business so that the price of a commodity or service may remain low or competitive.
Tax credits are a form of subsidy.
When the expenses are incurred is irrelevant to the actual definition.
The whole picture is that you feel some need to tie anything you don't like to some liberal ideal, granted to a lesser extent than the usual fruitcakes.
We're arguing about a definition. I don't see what that has to do with a liberal ideal, other than the fact that the definition in question only seems to be supported by our typical forum-goers to promote a liberal-based policy.
Why is subsidizing petroleum and agriculture not liberal biased policy but subsidizing healthcare is?
Because liberals have no problem calling the products of the other subsidized industries subsidized products, but suddenly when it's used in conjunction with medical procedures it's just "insurance coffers" paying for it, not subsidies.
The product an insurance company sells is an insurance policy. Insurance policies are a subsidized product. If procedures are subsidize by that logic, so, logically, must everything downstream also be. And that includes whatever the hospitals and doctors and anyone else who the hospital pays with the money they get in payment for their services.
Subsidy
Quote: sub•si•dy (ˈsʌb sɪ di)
n., pl. -dies.
1. a direct financial aid furnished by a government, as to a private commercial enterprise, an individual, or another government.
2. any grant or contribution of money.
3. money formerly granted by the English Parliament to the crown for special needs.
Tax credits are neither direct financial aid nor any grant or contribution of money.
Like I said before, you are altering the definition to suit your needs.
Regardless of what end of the equation the money comes in, it's still a financial burden that is being removed from a business by the government in order to normalize prices. I do like how you chose the most narrow definition of subsidy you could. I wasn't referring specifically to tax credits when I mentioned subsidizing other industries, either.
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Bismarck.Ramyrez
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-08-26 09:04:58
to put it in a perspective non accountants can understand...
it's the difference between a getting a coupon at a grocery store for something you purchased vs. getting food stamps to purchase the product... and then getting a coupon.
the problem conservatives have with subsidies is nothing has been done to earn them. they are not a reward for "good behavior", they are a hand out you "qualify" for by filling out the appropriate paperwork...
but since nothing has been done to earn them their value is not realized by the recipient.
Funny...never saw any of the fracking companies around here do anything to earn their coupons, either. But good ol' Tom Corbett is totally cool with that.
May he burn in a natural-gas powered hell when his time comes.
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2014-08-26 09:07:11
Funny...never saw any of the fracking companies around here do anything to earn their coupons, either. But good ol' Tom Corbett is totally cool with that.
May he burn in a natural-gas powered hell when his time comes.
they're fricking fracking! that is doing something.
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-08-26 09:07:39
Finding loopholes and what not. You know, I have asked people here multiple times to define a tax "loophole" and nobody has responded....
I have many times. It's a misnomer used to describe any inconsistency in tax code that lowers liabilities for a specific purpose or construction. A shell corporation in Ireland buying a US company so they can shift profits to overseas tax havens is often called a loophole, even if it's more literally just exploiting the system.
By volkom 2014-08-26 09:07:39
to put it in a perspective non accountants can understand...
it's the difference between a getting a coupon at a grocery store for something you purchased vs. getting food stamps to purchase the product... and then getting a coupon.
the problem conservatives have with subsidies is nothing has been done to earn them. they are not a reward for "good behavior", they are a hand out you "qualify" for by filling out the appropriate paperwork...
but since nothing has been done to earn them their value is not realized by the recipient.
never saw any of the companies around here do anything to earn their coupons, either.
what do you mean ?
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-08-26 09:07:45
to put it in a perspective non accountants can understand...
it's the difference between a getting a coupon at a grocery store for something you purchased vs. getting food stamps to purchase the product... and then getting a coupon.
the problem conservatives have with subsidies is nothing has been done to earn them. they are not a reward for "good behavior", they are a hand out you "qualify" for by filling out the appropriate paperwork...
but since nothing has been done to earn them their value is not realized by the recipient.
Funny...never saw any of the fracking companies around here do anything to earn their coupons, either. But good ol' Tom Corbett is totally cool with that.
May he burn in a natural-gas powered hell when his time comes. Are you talking about depletion?
Bismarck.Ramyrez
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-08-26 09:11:11
Funny...never saw any of the fracking companies around here do anything to earn their coupons, either. But good ol' Tom Corbett is totally cool with that.
May he burn in a natural-gas powered hell when his time comes.
they're fricking fracking! that is doing something.
Yeah, but you get rewarded for doing something beneficial.
I've yet to see a fracking benefit. Just a *** up landscape of torn-up forests, dirty water, and more *** big, slow, vehicles getting in my way on the highway.
And for all the "local support" these companies supposedly provide, all I see are small towns in Pennsylvania shrivelling up and dying, while they bus in all their own employees from out-of-state.
So we get none of the benefits that they were supposedly bringing, but are still paying with all of the downsides that we said would come.
So *** their A.(subsidies)B.(tax benefits). Take your pick. I don't care and wish horrible things upon them.
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By Odin.Zicdeh 2014-08-26 09:12:21
Huh. I was sure it would be Otters. They even go outside their species.
I would have guessed chickens before ducks. I'm pretty pro-duck, though. Have you ever hung around with ducks? They're awesome.
In fact, I've never seen a duck perpetrate rape. I've seen chickens do it constantly though. 
Case closed.
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