Random Politics & Religion #00

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Random Politics & Religion #00
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By Altimaomega 2014-08-25 21:05:16
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Jetackuu said: »
Republicans created it...

Honestly, we should just have single payer, but if the insurance system must stay, then it should be non-profit.

You seem to believe that just because a group of republicans thought it was a good idea they all did. If that was the case this would have been passed years earlier. Keep beating a dead horse though your very good at it.
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By Jetackuu 2014-08-25 21:06:53
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You're one to talk about dead horses, and beating meat.

It doesn't matter how many of them did, it's irrelevant.

Then again republicans of 20 years ago, are closer to the majority of democrats today (short of the hard left ones).

geopolitical sphere shift, etc.

edit: also: a Republican think tank came up with the idea, so yes: the party created it.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-08-25 21:14:29
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Jet is under the delusion that Republicans voted for the ACA.
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By Altimaomega 2014-08-25 21:15:45
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Jetackuu said: »
You're one to talk about dead horses, and beating meat.

It doesn't matter how many of them did, it's irrelevant.

Then again republicans of 20 years ago, are closer to the majority of democrats today (short of the hard left ones).

geopolitical sphere shift, etc.

edit: also: a Republican think tank came up with the idea, so yes: the party created it.

I was unaware the entire republican house and senate called themselves a think tank. I'll totally agree it doesn't matter how many of them did it, 20 year old policy is irrelevant. Thanks for bring it up.
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By Altimaomega 2014-08-25 21:18:29
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Jet is under the delusion that Republicans voted for the ACA.

Jet just likes to get off-topic on crap that really doesn't matter at all. A non-profit insurance company that paid its employees is the only relevant thing he had to say. then he went and ruined it by making people required to have it by law.
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-08-25 21:38:00
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Altimaomega said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
Altimaomega said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
Altimaomega said: »
Why do all you ACA supporters thinnk its okay for taxpayers to pay for these things.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/08/25/obamacare-now-pays-for-gender-reassignment.html

About 3/4 way into the article this pops up. "Late last year, Payne’s wife, who had battled alcoholism for years, died of liver disease." sigh...



Taxpayers aren't really paying for the surgery just because the person's insurance is partially subsidized. You'd have a better case if this was medicaid or something. It's also classified as a medical treatment, if the insurance company hasn't specifically stated that they won't cover this kind of surgery, they should be the target of your ire.

Did you really just say that with a straight face..

Yes, partial subsidy of premiums would be paid to the insurance company at the same rate if that person never made a claim. You're woefully misinformed.

What exactly is your definition of "subsidy"?

The actual definition. They subsidize premiums, not claims.
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-08-25 21:38:54
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Richard M. Nixon was the one behind the original design of what is now the ACA.
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-08-25 21:42:30
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Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Richard M. Nixon was the one behind the original design of what is now the ACA.

And this matters why? A piece of crap legislation is a piece of crap legislation no matter who came up with it or when.
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-08-25 21:45:04
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Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Richard M. Nixon was the one behind the original design of what is now the ACA.

And this matters why? A piece of crap legislation is a piece of crap legislation no matter who came up with it or when.

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By Jetackuu 2014-08-25 21:45:17
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Jet is under the delusion that Republicans voted for the ACA.
They did, in the 90's.

and they basically made it, go figure.
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By Jetackuu 2014-08-25 21:45:42
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Altimaomega said: »
Jetackuu said: »
You're one to talk about dead horses, and beating meat.

It doesn't matter how many of them did, it's irrelevant.

Then again republicans of 20 years ago, are closer to the majority of democrats today (short of the hard left ones).

geopolitical sphere shift, etc.

edit: also: a Republican think tank came up with the idea, so yes: the party created it.

I was unaware the entire republican house and senate called themselves a think tank. I'll totally agree it doesn't matter how many of them did it, 20 year old policy is irrelevant. Thanks for bring it up.

Ah, but it isn't, which is why everyone knows you're a fool. (among other reasons).

Also it comes to no surprise to me that you don't know what a think tank is.
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By Jetackuu 2014-08-25 21:46:25
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Altimaomega said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Jet is under the delusion that Republicans voted for the ACA.

Jet just likes to get off-topic on crap that really doesn't matter at all. A non-profit insurance company that paid its employees is the only relevant thing he had to say. then he went and ruined it by making people required to have it by law.

Didn't ruin it at all, there's no reason anyone shouldn't have insurance.
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By Altimaomega 2014-08-25 21:46:54
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Odin.Jassik said: »
Altimaomega said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
Altimaomega said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
Altimaomega said: »
Why do all you ACA supporters thinnk its okay for taxpayers to pay for these things.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/08/25/obamacare-now-pays-for-gender-reassignment.html

About 3/4 way into the article this pops up. "Late last year, Payne’s wife, who had battled alcoholism for years, died of liver disease." sigh...



Taxpayers aren't really paying for the surgery just because the person's insurance is partially subsidized. You'd have a better case if this was medicaid or something. It's also classified as a medical treatment, if the insurance company hasn't specifically stated that they won't cover this kind of surgery, they should be the target of your ire.

Did you really just say that with a straight face..

Yes, partial subsidy of premiums would be paid to the insurance company at the same rate if that person never made a claim. You're woefully misinformed.

What exactly is your definition of "subsidy"?

The actual definition. They subsidize premiums, not claims.

I'm well aware the government takes my tax dollars to subsidize peoples premiums for insurance they cannot afford but are forced to have. The question here is are you?
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By Jetackuu 2014-08-25 21:47:12
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Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Richard M. Nixon was the one behind the original design of what is now the ACA.

And this matters why? A piece of crap legislation is a piece of crap legislation no matter who came up with it or when.

It is actually relevant, but yes Nixon is a major figurehead who is a good bit responsible for the decline of the state of medical affairs in the US.
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By Jetackuu 2014-08-25 21:48:04
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Altimaomega said: »

I'm well aware the government takes my tax dollars to subsidize peoples premiums for insurance they cannot afford but are forced to have. The question here is are you?

Actually they don't, your tax dollars are basically worthless, and are most likely being spent on military operations.
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By Altimaomega 2014-08-25 21:48:58
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Jetackuu said: »
Altimaomega said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Jet is under the delusion that Republicans voted for the ACA.

Jet just likes to get off-topic on crap that really doesn't matter at all. A non-profit insurance company that paid its employees is the only relevant thing he had to say. then he went and ruined it by making people required to have it by law.

Didn't ruin it at all, there's no reason anyone shouldn't have insurance.

Non-profit insurance or the insurance that we a currently forced to have that is not only very costly but pays for overpriced medical procedures. You should really be more specific.
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By Jetackuu 2014-08-25 21:49:54
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Either one, hence why the specification was moot.
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By Altimaomega 2014-08-25 22:06:31
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Must be nice to never give straight answers, never have to defend what you say, and still think your not a fool.
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2014-08-25 22:11:07
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Anything to let Obama off the hook.
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By Jetackuu 2014-08-25 22:12:41
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I gave straight answers.

We all know who the fool here is.

Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Anything to let Obama off the hook.

I don't even like Obama, so your HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE statement is moot.
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-08-25 22:13:23
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Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
You seriously don't understand how insurance works. The purpose of the marketplaces is to create a shared risk pool. The insurance company now has a cap on profit margin, so they can't symbolically raise premiums. This procedure is something that they agreed to pay for when they sold the policy. A heart transplant costs in excess of $200,000 dollars, and insurance companies have been paying for them and making a profit for decades, and organ transplants are far more common than gender reassignment. This is seriously the pinnacle of fake outrage. The potential cost of this procedure is part of the calculation of risk that insurance is designed around.

What it boils down to is that you don't understand the procedure or the condition it treats and want to selectively argue against phantom socialism piecemeal. Guess what, Medicaid dollars go to religious "pray away the gay" programs, that's actual government funding. It's also proven to do a lot of harm and have no medical merit, but I don't hear any of the "conservative" crowd crying out against that. If you want to be taken seriously, found your outrage in reality and be consistent.
We actually had a conservative post a whole thread on the gay therapy thing awhile ago and their outrage.

And a heart transplant is a necessity of life. You need a heart to live. And people often die waiting on long lists for those. Same with kidney transplants and a lot of other organ transplants.

As for premium hikes:
Quote:
Based on figures released so far by 24 states and the District of Columbia, the average premium increase for next year would be around 7.5%, according to an analysis by PwC's Health Research Institute, an arm of PricewaterhouseCoopers LLC. The analysis, which didn't include the new California rates, found the moves would range from a proposed cut of 23% for one plan to a hike of 36%.

Blue Cross and Blue Shield plans, which have been the biggest players in many state marketplaces, were requesting boosts "typically above 9%," the institute found.

Covered California will have 10 insurers next year, including major insurers such as Blue Shield of California and WellPoint Inc., but missing some national names such as UnitedHealth Group Inc.

The rates for next year's California plans, which still need to be reviewed by regulators, will vary for individual consumers. Also, about 90% of Covered California consumers received federal subsidies that will defray the cost of premiums. Covered California said that in most of the state, the subsidies next year will increase or "remain very close" to the 2014 amounts.

The exchange said that, leaving out the effects of the subsidies, 16% of enrollees will see premiums stay flat or go down, 35% will see a boost of less than 5%, 36% will have increases of 5% to 8%, and 13% will have hikes of more than 8%.
California Sees Health-Law Premiums Rising 4.2% in 2015

So increase in subsidies, or remain very close, and 84% of plans with premium increases with varying degrees.

Apparently you aren't aware that heart transplants, as well as most organ transplants, were considered "elective" surgeries by many insurance plans before ACA.

As for the increase in premium cost, it's actually increasing at a slower rate now than it was before ACA, in fact, it's lower now than it was in the early 2000's. 2002-2003 saw an increase of about 12%.
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-08-25 22:15:08
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Altimaomega said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
Altimaomega said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
Altimaomega said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
Altimaomega said: »
Why do all you ACA supporters thinnk its okay for taxpayers to pay for these things.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/08/25/obamacare-now-pays-for-gender-reassignment.html

About 3/4 way into the article this pops up. "Late last year, Payne’s wife, who had battled alcoholism for years, died of liver disease." sigh...



Taxpayers aren't really paying for the surgery just because the person's insurance is partially subsidized. You'd have a better case if this was medicaid or something. It's also classified as a medical treatment, if the insurance company hasn't specifically stated that they won't cover this kind of surgery, they should be the target of your ire.

Did you really just say that with a straight face..

Yes, partial subsidy of premiums would be paid to the insurance company at the same rate if that person never made a claim. You're woefully misinformed.

What exactly is your definition of "subsidy"?

The actual definition. They subsidize premiums, not claims.

I'm well aware the government takes my tax dollars to subsidize peoples premiums for insurance they cannot afford but are forced to have. The question here is are you?

They can't afford the premiums, woohoo, how does that equate to the government paying for a gender reassignment surgery? You a making an incredible leap of logic, even for you.
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-08-25 22:27:03
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Do you actually like the ACA or do you just simply not have a problem with the surgery being an option?
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-08-25 22:31:10
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Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Do you actually like the ACA or do you just simply not have a problem with the surgery being an option?

I don't particularly like ACA, but I do like that procedures are being covered based on their medical merit and not their profitability. Do you like that insurance companies frequently denied life saving procedures like organ transplant under the guise that they were "elective"?
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-08-25 22:32:37
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Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Richard M. Nixon was the one behind the original design of what is now the ACA.

And this matters why? A piece of crap legislation is a piece of crap legislation no matter who came up with it or when.
Because when it fails, the liberals can deny it in entirity.

Never mind that not one single Republican voted for the legislation.

Jetackuu said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Jet is under the delusion that Republicans voted for the ACA.
They did, in the 90's.

and they basically made it, go figure.
I'm sorry, I didn't realize that a piece of legislation that was started and enacted in less than a 2 year span, which first was brought into play in 2009, was available in the 1990s.

I'll let you think that one a little bit, and maybe you can understand your foolishness.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-08-25 22:34:14
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Odin.Jassik said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Do you actually like the ACA or do you just simply not have a problem with the surgery being an option?

I don't particularly like ACA, but I do like that procedures are being covered based on their medical merit and not their profitability. Do you like that insurance companies frequently denied life saving procedures like organ transplant under the guise that they were "elective"?
What, you are saying that the same procedures aren't still considered "elective" under ACA?

You obviously don't know much about the panel of doctors who have to approve of said surgeries....based on profitability mind you.
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-08-25 22:37:48
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Death panels! DRINK
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2014-08-25 22:38:12
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Altimaomega said: »
Must be nice to never give straight answers, never have to defend what you say, and still think your not a fool.

You do this all the time, you started this convo by posting a link that made the exact opposite point of what you were trying to "say." The only solace is at least you didn't actually create a thread saying the exact opposite of the title, which you also are prone to do.
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-08-25 22:40:17
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Do you actually like the ACA or do you just simply not have a problem with the surgery being an option?

I don't particularly like ACA, but I do like that procedures are being covered based on their medical merit and not their profitability. Do you like that insurance companies frequently denied life saving procedures like organ transplant under the guise that they were "elective"?
What, you are saying that the same procedures aren't still considered "elective" under ACA?

You obviously don't know much about the panel of doctors who have to approve of said surgeries....based on profitability mind you.

They were often denied because heart conditions can be easily discarded as pre-existing or because people's plans suspiciously had exceptions for them. ACA standardized minimum plan requirements and eliminated pre-existing condition clauses. Those 2 things had a massive impact on what kinds of procedures would have to be covered. Panels of doctors who have to approve surgeries based on profitability? What the hell are you even talking about...
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