Random Politics & Religion #00
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Random Politics & Religion #00
Keep in mind that concise, written records were not the norm for a lot of civilizations the further back you go. Word of mouth accounts from a single source could have proved the basis for many different religious accounts centuries or millennia later. I think the problems that a lot of religious people have is when the words are taken literally and the lessons they were meant to teach are completely glanced over.
Bahamut.Ravael said: » Keep in mind that concise, written records were not the norm for a lot of civilizations the further back you go. Word of mouth accounts from a single source could have proved the basis for many different religious accounts centuries or millennia later. I think the problems that a lot of religious people have is when the words are taken literally and the lessons they were meant to teach are completely glanced over. It should be noted that most religious texts are the parts that people decided to include and not necessarily the entirety or tone that the original authors intended. The bible loses any credibility as an account of historical events when you examine the vast amount of contradictory accounts and gospels not included as well as the fact that it was written, almost exclusively, centuries after Jesus lived by people who were claiming to be people they weren't. Most of it's "Key" ideals are directly ripped off from previous religions, namely the virgin birth. And many of the exploits attributed to Jesus are mirrors of earlier prophets and other religious figures. It's pretty incredulous when you examine it as a historical text.
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Oh crap, does that mean the story of my "non-virgin birth" is completely ripped off because I read about the same thing happening to someone else before me?
But seriously, I do acknowledge the amount of contradictory accounts in the Bible. The re-translations and modifications over the years have taken their toll. Bahamut.Ravael said: » Oh crap, does that mean the story of my "non-virgin birth" is completely ripped off because I read about the same thing happening to someone else before me? But seriously, I do acknowledge the amount of contradictory accounts in the Bible. The re-translations and modifications over the years have taken their toll. If a non-virgin birth were unusual and you were claiming divinity, you might have a point, but that's a pretty weak argument. I don't mean to insult you, honestly. You can pretend that the only holes in it are due to the elapsed time, but any rational person must acknowledge the lunacy of the narrative. Odin.Jassik said: » Bahamut.Ravael said: » Oh crap, does that mean the story of my "non-virgin birth" is completely ripped off because I read about the same thing happening to someone else before me? But seriously, I do acknowledge the amount of contradictory accounts in the Bible. The re-translations and modifications over the years have taken their toll. If a non-virgin birth were unusual and you were claiming divinity, you might have a point, but that's a pretty weak argument. I don't mean to insult you, honestly. You can pretend that the only holes in it are due to the elapsed time, but any rational person must acknowledge the lunacy of the narrative. Whatever, insult me all you like. I have an advanced degree in the sciences and spend my days analyzing things based on facts and adherence to the scientific method. After all that, I'm still religious. If you want to call me irrational, be my guest.
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It is irrational, but that's not necessarily an insult, we as humans do irrational things all the time.
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How does the Bible hold up to the Scientific method then?
Odin.Zicdeh said: » How does the Bible hold up to the Scientific method then? Seeing as how a huge portion of it can't be tested, I'm not sure the scientific method can be applied.
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Jetackuu said: » It is irrational, but that's not necessarily an insult, we as humans do irrational things all the time. Maybe. But hey, we'll see. Bahamut.Ravael said: » Odin.Jassik said: » Bahamut.Ravael said: » Oh crap, does that mean the story of my "non-virgin birth" is completely ripped off because I read about the same thing happening to someone else before me? But seriously, I do acknowledge the amount of contradictory accounts in the Bible. The re-translations and modifications over the years have taken their toll. If a non-virgin birth were unusual and you were claiming divinity, you might have a point, but that's a pretty weak argument. I don't mean to insult you, honestly. You can pretend that the only holes in it are due to the elapsed time, but any rational person must acknowledge the lunacy of the narrative. Whatever, insult me all you like. I have an advanced degree in the sciences and spend my days analyzing things based on facts and adherence to the scientific method. After all that, I'm still religious. If you want to call me irrational, be my guest. I genuinely don't mean to insult, but I can't wrap my head around the disconnect. I, like Zicdeh, would like to know how you rationalize faith with a background in science. Odin.Jassik said: » Bahamut.Ravael said: » Odin.Jassik said: » Bahamut.Ravael said: » Oh crap, does that mean the story of my "non-virgin birth" is completely ripped off because I read about the same thing happening to someone else before me? But seriously, I do acknowledge the amount of contradictory accounts in the Bible. The re-translations and modifications over the years have taken their toll. If a non-virgin birth were unusual and you were claiming divinity, you might have a point, but that's a pretty weak argument. I don't mean to insult you, honestly. You can pretend that the only holes in it are due to the elapsed time, but any rational person must acknowledge the lunacy of the narrative. Whatever, insult me all you like. I have an advanced degree in the sciences and spend my days analyzing things based on facts and adherence to the scientific method. After all that, I'm still religious. If you want to call me irrational, be my guest. I genuinely don't mean to insult, but I can't wrap my head around the disconnect. I, like Zicdeh, would like to know how you rationalize faith with a background in science. It's not really my place to go after people who keep their faith to themselves, or even share in a non-invasive way. I just get uppity when their faith drives ***like public policy or global issues. Case in point the Palestine thread, that ***is poisonous and with just the right series of events could jeopardize world stability, all because some patch of dirt is Sacrosanct.
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By no means would I attack someone for their faith. In a way, I'm envious. I just would like to understand it.
That's a valid concern, Jassik. It's been the cumulative result of a lifetime of research and thought, so forgive me if I can't find a concise answer for you off the cuff. I'm not preachy, though, so if I think of a better answer I may just send a PM or something.
Bahamut.Ravael said: » That's a valid concern, Jassik. It's been the cumulative result of a lifetime of research and thought, so forgive me if I can't find a concise answer for you off the cuff. I'm not preachy, though, so if I think of a better answer I may just send a PM or something. To wholeheartedly declare that your views aren't so cut and dry really speaks volumes to your character, your faith, and your profession, without the need to mingle them all into one ugly mess.
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Bahamut.Ravael said: » Odin.Jassik said: » Bahamut.Ravael said: » Oh crap, does that mean the story of my "non-virgin birth" is completely ripped off because I read about the same thing happening to someone else before me? But seriously, I do acknowledge the amount of contradictory accounts in the Bible. The re-translations and modifications over the years have taken their toll. If a non-virgin birth were unusual and you were claiming divinity, you might have a point, but that's a pretty weak argument. I don't mean to insult you, honestly. You can pretend that the only holes in it are due to the elapsed time, but any rational person must acknowledge the lunacy of the narrative. Whatever, insult me all you like. I have an advanced degree in the sciences and spend my days analyzing things based on facts and adherence to the scientific method. After all that, I'm still religious. If you want to call me irrational, be my guest. This [+]x10. Numerous individuals in science believe in some higher power or afterlife. We aren't using the Bible to explain evolutionary mechanisms like drift and draft. We aren't using the Quran to explain quantum mechanics or thermodynamics. We aren't using any religious text to explain scientific principles, laws or theories. There are some non-secular academics/researchers like those that operate the Creation Museum, however, that hardly represents the scientific community.
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Bismarck.Bloodrose said: » Bahamut.Ravael said: » That's a valid concern, Jassik. It's been the cumulative result of a lifetime of research and thought, so forgive me if I can't find a concise answer for you off the cuff. I'm not preachy, though, so if I think of a better answer I may just send a PM or something. To wholeheartedly declare that your views aren't so cut and dry really speaks volumes to your character, your faith, and your profession, without the need to mingle them all into one ugly mess. I appreciate that. But now I'm gonna feel bad the next time we're ripping into each other over some political viewpoint. Bahamut.Ravael said: » Bismarck.Bloodrose said: » Bahamut.Ravael said: » That's a valid concern, Jassik. It's been the cumulative result of a lifetime of research and thought, so forgive me if I can't find a concise answer for you off the cuff. I'm not preachy, though, so if I think of a better answer I may just send a PM or something. To wholeheartedly declare that your views aren't so cut and dry really speaks volumes to your character, your faith, and your profession, without the need to mingle them all into one ugly mess. I appreciate that. But now I'm gonna feel bad the next time we're ripping into each other over some political viewpoint. At which point, we can focus on what we agree on, find common ground on that which we don't, and discuss different possible solutions. You know, like people, instead of politicians.
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Bahamut.Ravael said: » Odin.Zicdeh said: » How does the Bible hold up to the Scientific method then? Seeing as how a huge portion of it can't be tested, I'm not sure the scientific method can be applied. There are portions of the Bible which are historical events. Like the stories of the Maccabees and Cesar, those have been verified by historians. What many atheists don't seem to understand is many individuals, myself included, read the bible as a book of fables and allegories.
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My graduate advisor considered himself Catholic. He would say that he really enjoyed the community aspect of it, but I got the distinct feeling he didn't really subscribe too heavily in the dogma.
Personally, I find things like the afterlife comforting and would like to believe in them beyond the basic notion that it would be kinda nice. The rest of it though I can't really find much use for. Bahamut.Ravael said: » Be careful! You may have accidentally just lit the Pleebo signal.
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Cerberus.Pleebo said: » It's delusional to assume the President would be personally aware of the minor details of his motorcade route and should somehow be held accountable for this woman's inconvenience. The fact that we disagree is just the inevitable conclusion. No one reasonably thinks he is personally aware of all the details of his motorcade. Somehow though we still live in a world where we are still responsible for things we aren't always aware of. I mean I can try that excuse next time a cop pulls me over but I doubt it'll work.
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I love how the Church of Climate Science followers are demonizing religion in the first place, even though they are the most zealous when it comes to promoting their religion.
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Science is the only religion that I know of that is boring and required for high school.
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Ragnarok.Nausi said: » No one reasonably thinks he is personally aware of all the details of his motorcade. Somehow though we still live in a world where we are still responsible for things we aren't always aware of. I mean I can try that excuse next time a cop pulls me over but I doubt it'll work. Asura.Kingnobody said: » I love how the Church of Climate Science followers are demonizing religion in the first place, even though they are the most zealous when it comes to promoting their religion.
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'Murica
Cerberus.Pleebo said: » No one demonized anything. I don't see why you think it's ok to lie when our posts are right there and anyone can plainly see you're full of ***. I wasn't even referring to you either... Guilty conscience? |
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