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Random Politics & Religion #00
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Random Politics & Religion #00
Bahamut.Ravael said: » I'm going back and forth on Jassik's comment, actually. I don't think it would be quite as effective as he says, but there are some serious problems with the system as it stands. I'd say some new methods are worth testing on small scales. I don't doubt that the system needs work, but any notion that people will voluntarily imprison themselves, is beyond ignorant. Ragnarok.Nausi said: » Bahamut.Ravael said: » I'm going back and forth on Jassik's comment, actually. I don't think it would be quite as effective as he says, but there are some serious problems with the system as it stands. I'd say some new methods are worth testing on small scales. I don't doubt that the system needs work, but any notion that people will voluntarily imprison themselves, is beyond ignorant.
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Bahamut.Milamber said: » Ragnarok.Nausi said: » Bahamut.Ravael said: » I'm going back and forth on Jassik's comment, actually. I don't think it would be quite as effective as he says, but there are some serious problems with the system as it stands. I'd say some new methods are worth testing on small scales. I don't doubt that the system needs work, but any notion that people will voluntarily imprison themselves, is beyond ignorant. Look at how hard people try to avoid being caught. I'd say that's a good indicator. Bahamut.Ravael said: » Bahamut.Milamber said: » Ragnarok.Nausi said: » Bahamut.Ravael said: » I'm going back and forth on Jassik's comment, actually. I don't think it would be quite as effective as he says, but there are some serious problems with the system as it stands. I'd say some new methods are worth testing on small scales. I don't doubt that the system needs work, but any notion that people will voluntarily imprison themselves, is beyond ignorant. Look at how hard people try to avoid being caught. I'd say that's a good indicator. http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/09/why-scandinavian-prisons-are-superior/279949/
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Bahamut.Milamber said: » Bahamut.Ravael said: » Bahamut.Milamber said: » Ragnarok.Nausi said: » Bahamut.Ravael said: » I'm going back and forth on Jassik's comment, actually. I don't think it would be quite as effective as he says, but there are some serious problems with the system as it stands. I'd say some new methods are worth testing on small scales. I don't doubt that the system needs work, but any notion that people will voluntarily imprison themselves, is beyond ignorant. Look at how hard people try to avoid being caught. I'd say that's a good indicator. http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/09/why-scandinavian-prisons-are-superior/279949/ I'm aware of Scandinavian prison systems, but thanks. I assumed we were talking about the U.S., which isn't in Scandinavia. We're not going to be able to fix our problem all at once, which is why I said start small and we'll see what we can improve. Bahamut.Ravael said: » Bahamut.Milamber said: » Bahamut.Ravael said: » Bahamut.Milamber said: » Ragnarok.Nausi said: » Bahamut.Ravael said: » I'm going back and forth on Jassik's comment, actually. I don't think it would be quite as effective as he says, but there are some serious problems with the system as it stands. I'd say some new methods are worth testing on small scales. I don't doubt that the system needs work, but any notion that people will voluntarily imprison themselves, is beyond ignorant. Look at how hard people try to avoid being caught. I'd say that's a good indicator. http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/09/why-scandinavian-prisons-are-superior/279949/ I'm aware of Scandinavian prison systems, but thanks. I assumed we were talking about the U.S., which isn't in Scandinavia. We're not going to be able to fix our problem all at once, which is why I said start small and we'll see what we can improve. OK, why?
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There are already low security facilities with more or less open doors, nobody escapes because they're non-violent, generally white-collar criminals serving appropriate sentences who have more to lose by leaving than staying.
I'm not talking about violent criminals, I'm talking about the middle age professionals who get years of prison for having some off-label prescription narcotics or tax evasion. Realistically, a pretty small percentage of our current incarcerated population pose any real flight risk and would benefit much more from a rehab or vocational program. Removing them from society actually turns them into harder criminals. Try getting a job with a record.
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 When Jeb went after Marco Rubio. Jassik said: » Try getting a job with a record. if only they had thought of that before committing the crimes we wouldn't need any prisons at all /rainbow
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Shiva.Nikolce said: » Jassik said: » Try getting a job with a record. if only they had thought of that before committing the crimes we wouldn't need any prisons at all /rainbow Yeah, hindsight and all that, but a shocking number of people end up taking plea deals because they can't afford representation. It's taking a little longer than they thought for liberals to get the illegal immigrant vote so now they are courting the felon vote.
Phoenix.Amandarius said: » It's taking a little longer than they thought for liberals to get the illegal immigrant vote so now they are courting the felon vote. Felons can't vote, brah I know.
Jassik said: » Yeah, hindsight and all that, but a shocking number of people end up taking plea deals because they can't afford representation. how many you figure? Shiva.Nikolce said: » Jassik said: » Yeah, hindsight and all that, but a shocking number of people end up taking plea deals because they can't afford representation. how many you figure? I have no idea how you'd even quantify it. Suffice it to say, there's definitely a lot of people with felony records that wouldn't have them if they'd had adequate counsel. how is it a shocking number if you have no idea how many there are?
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Shiva.Nikolce said: » how is it a shocking number if you have no idea how many there are? The estimates alone are shocking. There's a few watchdog groups that have done studies as well as the DoJ's own analyses based on wrongful convictions discovered with DNA evidence. The innocence project said something like 3-5% of people in prison were innocent based on those same samples of people proven innocent with DNA evidence. That's in the neighborhood of 50-100K people in prison right now are flat out innocent. If even a comparable amount were railroaded into plea deals or were dropped by the system and not given good representation, it's shocking, and based on what I've seen from other sources, it's likely even higher. I didn't say I have no idea how many, I said I don't know how you'd quantify it. DoJ says 90-95% of cases end in a plea bargain
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Bismarck.Dracondria said: » DoJ says 90-95% of cases end in a plea bargain That's federal only? Felony? All cases? State and Federal
Jassik said: » Phoenix.Amandarius said: » It's taking a little longer than they thought for liberals to get the illegal immigrant vote so now they are courting the felon vote. Phoenix.Amandarius said: » I know. 19 in 20. Its in that nifty article about Scandinavian prison practices.
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Jassik said: » Shiva.Nikolce said: » how is it a shocking number if you have no idea how many there are? The estimates alone are shocking. no they aren't.... you're just easily taken by surprise or just plain gullible... Garuda.Chanti said: » 19 in 20. Its in that nifty article about Scandinavian prison practices. LOL! oh yeah right I forgot everyone in prison is innocent! they were railroaded by teh man. How silly of me I forgot how much teh man likes to put innocent people in prison.... that's what I will be doing all weekend.... finding innocent people and tricking them into confessing to crimes they didn't commit... yeah and putting impotency drugs in churches fried chicken... and corrupting the vaccine supply...steal some baby's candy I better get started! Shiva.Nikolce said: » Jassik said: » Shiva.Nikolce said: » how is it a shocking number if you have no idea how many there are? The estimates alone are shocking. no they aren't.... you're just easily taken by surprise or just plain gullible... Garuda.Chanti said: » 19 in 20. Its in that nifty article about Scandinavian prison practices. LOL! oh yeah right I forgot everyone in prison is innocent! they were railroaded by teh man. How silly of me I forgot how much teh man likes to put innocent people in prison.... that's what I will be doing all weekend.... finding innocent people and tricking them into confessing to crimes they didn't commit... yeah and putting impotency drugs in churches fried chicken... and corrupting the vaccine supply...steal some baby's candy I better get started! 19 in 20 cases were plea deals, not innocent. And, no, I'm not gullible. Our legal system was constructed to keep innocent people out of jail and its obviously got some glaring issues. How is the prospect that nearly a quarter million Americans are in prison wrongly not shocking? Or do you just assume that they must have done something else they didn't get caught for? Jassik said: » Our legal system was constructed to keep innocent people out of jail I'm going to stop you right here because this is my point. I like how your numbers climbed from 50k-100k to 250k overnight lol why would you assume they are innocent if they copped a plea deal? that makes no sense. think about it for a minute. who could it possibly benefit to stick an innocent man in jail? and think about this one. OJ had great lawyers and got off for a double murder he absolutely committed. do you think OJ is innocent? Shiva.Nikolce said: » do you think OJ is innocent?  Who in their right mind would convict that? Don't mind me though. /goes back to sleep.
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Quote: think about it for a minute. who could it possibly benefit to stick an innocent man in jail? Kids for cash scandal. and am I the only one that thinks "the great wall of america" has a nice ring to it?
I would totally pack up the family into the station wagon and go see that ***... walk across the top of it for half a mile. toss some bread crumbs to the poor children on the other side... look through those binocular stand things you have to stick a quarter in to get them to work... Shiva.Nikolce said: » why would you assume they are innocent if they copped a plea deal? that makes no sense. Extremely overworked public defenders who convince people to take a deal instead of risking it at trial because they have so many cases they can't provide an adequate defense
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