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Random Politics & Religion #00
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Random Politics & Religion #00
Caitsith.Shiroi said: » Ragnarok.Nausi said: » Valefor.Sehachan said: » We could argue about the point of self defense all day, we will disagree nonetheless but it's at least a meaningful discussion. Denying a gun is an object intended for violence is demented though. There is no reasoning with you sometimes. So you would be fine with Iran getting nukes, they just want to defend themselves against countries with nukes! Just like guns, we try to keep nukes out of the hands of psychos. Caitsith.Shiroi said: » Ragnarok.Nausi said: » Valefor.Sehachan said: » We could argue about the point of self defense all day, we will disagree nonetheless but it's at least a meaningful discussion. Denying a gun is an object intended for violence is demented though. There is no reasoning with you sometimes. So you would be fine with Iran getting nukes, they just want to defend themselves against countries with nukes!  Winnar!
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Kinda giggling at the stereotype created by Nausi, in only the last two pages he's been about guns and eating bad. We're only missing something about a bible and I think we'll automatically hear an eagle's cry.
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Ragnarok.Nausi said: » Caitsith.Shiroi said: » Ragnarok.Nausi said: » Valefor.Sehachan said: » We could argue about the point of self defense all day, we will disagree nonetheless but it's at least a meaningful discussion. Denying a gun is an object intended for violence is demented though. There is no reasoning with you sometimes. So you would be fine with Iran getting nukes, they just want to defend themselves against countries with nukes! Winnar! Not really. If having weapons prevents violence, what's wrong with everyone having them, since you can't outlaw the weapon because some people might misuse it. The issue is that you aren't willing to discuss the subject honestly. You know there is a problem with the current gun culture in this country, but you cannot admit that guns are a factor. Everything must be binary and because it's impossible that guns aren't awesome. There's a reason why the so called mediterranean diet is considered the best in the world for health.
Ragnarok.Nausi said: » News to me. Jassik said: » Not really. If having weapons prevents violence, what's wrong with everyone having them, since you can't outlaw the weapon because some people might misuse it. The issue is that you aren't willing to discuss the subject honestly. You know there is a problem with the current gun culture in this country, but you cannot admit that guns are a factor. Everything must be binary and because it's impossible that guns aren't awesome. So, you accuse Nausi of being binary, while presenting an extreme as an argument in the first paragraph?
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Bahamut.Ravael said: » Jassik said: » Not really. If having weapons prevents violence, what's wrong with everyone having them, since you can't outlaw the weapon because some people might misuse it. The issue is that you aren't willing to discuss the subject honestly. You know there is a problem with the current gun culture in this country, but you cannot admit that guns are a factor. Everything must be binary and because it's impossible that guns aren't awesome. So, you accuse Nausi of being binary, while presenting an extreme as an argument in the first paragraph? 
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Bahamut.Milamber said: » Bahamut.Ravael said: » Jassik said: » Not really. If having weapons prevents violence, what's wrong with everyone having them, since you can't outlaw the weapon because some people might misuse it. The issue is that you aren't willing to discuss the subject honestly. You know there is a problem with the current gun culture in this country, but you cannot admit that guns are a factor. Everything must be binary and because it's impossible that guns aren't awesome. So, you accuse Nausi of being binary, while presenting an extreme as an argument in the first paragraph? That's not the argument that anyone else is making, so it's irrelevant to the discussion. Hence, bringing it up as the opposing side's argument is making it artificially binary. Jassik said: » Ragnarok.Nausi said: » Caitsith.Shiroi said: » Ragnarok.Nausi said: » Valefor.Sehachan said: » We could argue about the point of self defense all day, we will disagree nonetheless but it's at least a meaningful discussion. Denying a gun is an object intended for violence is demented though. There is no reasoning with you sometimes. So you would be fine with Iran getting nukes, they just want to defend themselves against countries with nukes! Winnar! Not really. If having weapons prevents violence, what's wrong with everyone having them, since you can't outlaw the weapon because some people might misuse it. The issue is that you aren't willing to discuss the subject honestly. You know there is a problem with the current gun culture in this country, but you cannot admit that guns are a factor. Everything must be binary and because it's impossible that guns aren't awesome. Guns ARE awesome in the past 22 years we've had the most guns out there in the country and the murder rate by them has fallen 30% since the 90s. Quote: Despite these trends, most U.S. adults think gun crimes have increased. In our 2013 survey, more than half (56%) of Americans said the number of gun crimes had gone up compared with 20 years ago. Another 26% said the number of gun crimes had remained the same, and just 12% said gun crimes had declined. The only problem we have with guns is a media problem, and of course the whole idea and promotion of "gun free zones" which actually prompt gun violence instead of deter it. No quarter is definetely better.
Bahamut.Ravael said: » Bahamut.Milamber said: » Bahamut.Ravael said: » Jassik said: » Not really. If having weapons prevents violence, what's wrong with everyone having them, since you can't outlaw the weapon because some people might misuse it. The issue is that you aren't willing to discuss the subject honestly. You know there is a problem with the current gun culture in this country, but you cannot admit that guns are a factor. Everything must be binary and because it's impossible that guns aren't awesome. So, you accuse Nausi of being binary, while presenting an extreme as an argument in the first paragraph? That's not the argument that anyone else is making, so it's irrelevant to the discussion. Hence, bringing it up as the opposing side's argument is making it artificially binary. Strawmen are par for the P&R course I'm afraid. No one ever has an argument to my points so they just pretend I said something else and argue against that. Ragnarok.Nausi said: » No one ever has an argument to my points
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Ragnarok.Nausi said: » Bahamut.Ravael said: » Bahamut.Milamber said: » Bahamut.Ravael said: » Jassik said: » Not really. If having weapons prevents violence, what's wrong with everyone having them, since you can't outlaw the weapon because some people might misuse it. The issue is that you aren't willing to discuss the subject honestly. You know there is a problem with the current gun culture in this country, but you cannot admit that guns are a factor. Everything must be binary and because it's impossible that guns aren't awesome. So, you accuse Nausi of being binary, while presenting an extreme as an argument in the first paragraph? That's not the argument that anyone else is making, so it's irrelevant to the discussion. Hence, bringing it up as the opposing side's argument is making it artificially binary. Strawmen are par for the P&R course I'm afraid. No one ever has an argument to my points so they just pretend I said something else and argue against that. The bolded part is something that I see all the freaking time.
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Asura.Floppyseconds said: » Bahamut.Ravael said: » Jassik said: » Not really. If having weapons prevents violence, what's wrong with everyone having them, since you can't outlaw the weapon because some people might misuse it. The issue is that you aren't willing to discuss the subject honestly. You know there is a problem with the current gun culture in this country, but you cannot admit that guns are a factor. Everything must be binary and because it's impossible that guns aren't awesome. So, you accuse Nausi of being binary, while presenting an extreme as an argument in the first sentence? He was discussing the extreme from someone else. Keep up. That also doesn't absolve Nausi of being dopey though. No, we weren't arguing anything even remotely close to "guns are a fundamental right" we were arguing the point of "a gun's only purpose is to kill". Throwing Iran getting nukes had absolutely zero to do with the discussion. Not so often lately since the one who made it a sport hasn't been posting.
Valefor.Sehachan said: » Not so often lately since the one who made it a sport hasn't been posting. I'm not sure who you're referring to, but I see several culprits in this discussion already. Asura.Floppyseconds said: » I was talking about the nukes. Not the damn fact I keep mocking "inalienable rights". The Iran comment from Shiroi is exactly why Jassik said what he said. Wo~o~w.. By the way if you can't see every purpose of a gun is tied in some way to violence then you are truly hopeless. It doesn't matter if it is a deterrent, it is because it is a threat of violence. Everything to do with a gun is linked to violence. I wasn't talking about guns as a right. Shiroi threw that strawman down out of nowhere. ---- The threat of violence used to deter actual violence is not equal to actual violence. Tell me of how you quantify other things. Can I trade you my pound of silver for your pound of gold, they are both shiny you know... When we finally live in that utopia where we all hold hands and sing Kumbaya, we won't need the threat of violence to deter violent criminals. In the meantime, a stern finger-wagging isn't going to do the trick.
Asura.Floppyseconds said: » Ragnarok.Nausi said: » Asura.Floppyseconds said: » By the way if you can't see every purpose of a gun is tied in some way to violence then you are truly hopeless. It doesn't matter if it is a deterrent, it is because it is a threat of violence. Everything to do with a gun is linked to violence. The threat of violence used to deter actual violence is not equal to actual violence. Tell me of how you quantify other things. Can I trade you my pound of silver for your pound of gold, they are both shiny you know... Yes, because it is indirectly linked to the threat of being hurt or killed. As I was saying. Still linked to violence. What is tricky about this? If I say I am going to punch you in the face if you don't stop, and you stop. That doesn't mean violence wasn't the tool used to stop you because no one got hurt. It means that *pauses to say in a dumb tone* violence was the tool used. Punching someone in the face is violent, telling someone that if they don't stop they will get punched in the face is not violent. Having a gun at your waist when you do it, doesn't make the threat any more violent. Bahamut.Ravael said: » Jassik said: » Not really. If having weapons prevents violence, what's wrong with everyone having them, since you can't outlaw the weapon because some people might misuse it. The issue is that you aren't willing to discuss the subject honestly. You know there is a problem with the current gun culture in this country, but you cannot admit that guns are a factor. Everything must be binary and because it's impossible that guns aren't awesome. So, you accuse Nausi of being binary, while presenting an extreme as an argument in the first paragraph? No, it's not an extreme. I just used his own argument to show perspective. You of all people, who claims to be so critical of every "fact" you hear and you are defending a guy who can't even get his own opinion straight. |
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