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U.S. Climate Has Already Changed, Study Finds
 Bahamut.Milamber
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3691
By Bahamut.Milamber 2014-05-10 10:26:56
Al Gore scammed you guys good.
Quote: Last year Mr Gore's venture capital firm loaned a small California firm $75m to develop energy-saving technology.
The company, Silver Spring Networks, produces hardware and software to make the electricity grid more efficient.
The deal appeared to pay off in a big way last week, when the Energy Department announced $3.4 billion in smart grid grants, the New York Times reports. Of the total, more than $560 million went to utilities with which Silver Spring has contracts.
The move means that venture capital company Kleiner Perkins and its partners, including Mr Gore, could recoup their investment many times over in coming years.
Few people have been as vocal about the urgency of global warming and the need to reinvent the way the world produces and consumes energy as Mr Gore. And few have put as much money behind their advocacy and are as well positioned to profit from this green transformation, if and when it comes. You truly are an idiot.
A smart grid has little to do with "green energy" or global warming. It increases the efficiency and reliability of electricity distribution, among other things. You know those blackouts that have knocked out a good section of a state or group of states? The likelyhood of such events if the US grid was modernized is extremely reduced.
Edit:idiot is probably too harsh; there are many others that possibly deserve the title at least as much.
self-aggrandizing, attention seeking, and willfully ignorant/obtuse probably do apply.
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Server: Sylph
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Posts: 389
By Sylph.Maruraba 2014-05-10 10:30:04
Al Gore scammed you guys good. He invested in something he advocated and now stands to make money from said investments. How is that a scam? Maybe it's not altruistic, but nobody said you couldn't be an environmentalist and a capitalist at the same time.
By Jetackuu 2014-05-10 10:37:14
Grid efficiency, is an amazing thing.
Bahamut.Kara
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3544
By Bahamut.Kara 2014-05-10 10:48:33
Quote: Don’t look now, but maybe a scientific consensus exists concerning global warming after all. Only 36 percent of geoscientists and engineers believe that humans are creating a global warming crisis, according to a survey reported in the peer-reviewed Organization Studies. By contrast, a strong majority of the 1,077 respondents believe that nature is the primary cause of recent global warming and/or that future global warming will not be a very serious problem.
The authors of the survey report, however, note that the overwhelming majority of scientists fall within four other models, each of which is skeptical of alarmist global warming claims.
The survey finds that 24 percent of the scientist respondents fit the “Nature Is Overwhelming” model. “In their diagnostic framing, they believe that changes to the climate are natural, normal cycles of the Earth.” Moreover, “they strongly disagree that climate change poses any significant public risk and see no impact on their personal lives.”
Another group of scientists fit the “Fatalists” model. These scientists, comprising 17 percent of the respondents, “diagnose climate change as both human- and naturally caused. ‘Fatalists’ consider climate change to be a smaller public risk with little impact on their personal life. They are skeptical that the scientific debate is settled regarding the IPCC modeling.” These scientists are likely to ask, “How can anyone take action if research is biased?”
At least they linked the Full paper.
http://oss.sagepub.com/content/33/11/1477.full
Quote: To address this, we reconstruct the frames of one group of experts who have not received much attention in previous research and yet play a central role in understanding industry responses – professional experts in petroleum and related industries.
....
To answer this question, we consider how climate change is constructed by professional engineers and geoscientists in the province of Alberta, Canada.
....
Professional engineers and geoscientists are particularly influential in this industry. Alberta has the highest per capita of professional engineers and geoscientists (a category of licensure that includes climatologists, geologists, glaciologists, meteorologists, geophysicists, and paleo-climatologists) in North America. And the petroleum industry – through oil and gas companies, related industrial services, and consulting services – is the largest employer, either directly or indirectly, of professional engineers and geoscientists in Alberta.
....
We find that virtually all respondents (99.4%) agree that the climate is changing. However, there is considerable disagreement as to cause, consequences, and lines of action
Bahamut.Kara
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3544
By Bahamut.Kara 2014-05-10 10:52:12
Quote: Publicists at the United Nations, Mr. Al Gore, and their supporters frequently claim that only a few “skeptics” remain – skeptics who are still unconvinced about the existence of a catastrophic human-caused global warming emergency.
It is evident that 31,487 Americans with university degrees in science – including 9,029 PhDs, are not "a few." Moreover, from the clear and strong petition statement that they have signed, it is evident that these 31,487 American scientists are not “skeptics.”
These scientists are instead convinced that the human-caused global warming hypothesis is without scientific validity and that government action on the basis of this hypothesis would unnecessarily and counterproductively damage both human prosperity and the natural environment of the Earth. 
There is no verification required to confirm these people have a science background or anything.
 Leviathan.Chaosx
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-05-10 12:54:59
I always believe people that immediately result to personal name calling. Always the sign of intelligent life.
It's fine to rip apart the sources I provide, but to immediately go with the personal insults from someone I've seen post on here a handful of times, kudos! You definitely convinced me.
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By fonewear 2014-05-10 12:56:37
I don't have a good argument...therefore name calling. Classic.
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Leviathan.Chaosx
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-05-10 12:57:03
Al Gore scammed you guys good. He invested in something he advocated and now stands to make money from said investments. How is that a scam? Maybe it's not altruistic, but nobody said you couldn't be an environmentalist and a capitalist at the same time. And what exactly is your thoughts on capitalism?
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By fonewear 2014-05-10 13:00:25
Capitalism: That's bad
Global warming hysteria: That's good.
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 Cerberus.Pleebo
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-05-10 13:02:37
A businessman made money through business. What does this prove exactly?
Leviathan.Chaosx
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-05-10 13:04:24
I don't have a good argument...therefore name calling. Classic. At least Kara looked at the sources and picked them part. This guy Milamber, very aggressive right off the bat.
You truly are an idiot.
Edit:idiot is probably too harsh; there are many others that possibly deserve the title at least as much.
self-aggrandizing, attention seeking, and willfully ignorant/obtuse probably do apply. Well you certainly convinced me.
Grid efficiency, is an amazing thing. It is if they ever did it. Instead they just invent carbon credits, make a ton of money and call it green.
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By Jetackuu 2014-05-10 13:05:21
Carbon credits don't really have much to do with it... then again I may be talking about something else, as I don't really care about Gore.
By fonewear 2014-05-10 13:05:37
Carbon credits. I'm skeptical already.
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Leviathan.Chaosx
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-05-10 13:06:37
A businessman made money through business. What does this prove exactly? And your thoughts on capitalism? I don't remember exactly.
Leviathan.Chaosx
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-05-10 13:08:09
Carbon credits don't really have much to do with it... then again I may be talking about something else, as I don't really care about Gore. With what? My point is Al Gore scammed everybody with the idea of carbon credits. That's all he did. Scared people with a documentary and made a ton of money with carbon credits. That was my whole point.
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Cerberus.Pleebo
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-05-10 13:10:30
I think it's nifty. So, what is the Gore angle supposed to prove?
Leviathan.Chaosx
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-05-10 13:11:20
Capitalism: That's bad
Global warming hysteria: That's good. Yeah I get that feeling that those who demonize anyone who questions global whatever, hate capitalism. Unfortunately I don't know their views of capitalism offhand.
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By fonewear 2014-05-10 13:12:57
Capitalism is bad because umm some woman on TV told me so.
She had a sign saying "Eat the rich"
Leviathan.Chaosx
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-05-10 13:13:20
I think it's nifty. So, what is the Gore angle supposed to prove? That the so called crusader of global whatever this century was nothing but a con-artist.
Just like in the 1960's, most of those people did it for political reasons, and took a lot of mind altering drugs.
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By Jetackuu 2014-05-10 13:13:57
Carbon credits don't really have much to do with it... then again I may be talking about something else, as I don't really care about Gore. With what? My point is Al Gore scammed everybody with the idea of carbon credits. That's all he did. Scared people with a documentary and made a ton of money with carbon credits. That was my whole point. The grid, like I though, we're talking abut different things, continue.
Cerberus.Pleebo
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-05-10 13:14:45
lol
You're just confirming what Mil said now. You're the one who thinks profiting off of science is somehow fraudulent yet we're the ones who hate capitalism. Toss in some cap and trade buzzwords and that's your argument.
Leviathan.Chaosx
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-05-10 13:15:37
There was some documentary out awhile ago that told the story about how anyone who was really concerned with pollution and the environment dropped out of many of those organizations because they were too radical and suspected them of not really caring one or another.
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Cerberus.Pleebo
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-05-10 13:16:35
cool story bro
By fonewear 2014-05-10 13:17:27
Al Gore has never lead me astray his cult is amazing.
Cerberus.Pleebo
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-05-10 13:18:09
Did Gore invent carbon credits before or after he invented the internet? Gosh, that guy is so inventive!
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Leviathan.Chaosx
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-05-10 13:20:49
lol
You're just confirming what Mil said now. You're the one who thinks profiting off of science is somehow fraudulent yet we're the ones who hate capitalism. Toss in some cap and trade buzzwords and that's your argument. Thanks for putting words in my mouth. I didn't say profiting off of science is fraudulent either.
I said profiting off of scare tactics on a scheme to make money flow and profit off the flow, rather than make money on anything tangible, is fraudulent when you don't even practice what you preach.
Much like PETA. Kill 95% of animals you take in, regardless of condition, but cause domestic terrorism and you're fighting for animal rights. Got it.
Leviathan.Chaosx
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-05-10 13:21:34
Al Gore has never lead me astray his cult is amazing. The sad part, it really is a cult. Manbearpig ftw!
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 Bismarck.Bloodrose
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4322
By Bismarck.Bloodrose 2014-05-10 13:22:16
Someone say Al Gore?
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Leviathan.Chaosx
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-05-10 13:28:09
Quote: Don’t look now, but maybe a scientific consensus exists concerning global warming after all. Only 36 percent of geoscientists and engineers believe that humans are creating a global warming crisis, according to a survey reported in the peer-reviewed Organization Studies. By contrast, a strong majority of the 1,077 respondents believe that nature is the primary cause of recent global warming and/or that future global warming will not be a very serious problem.
The authors of the survey report, however, note that the overwhelming majority of scientists fall within four other models, each of which is skeptical of alarmist global warming claims.
The survey finds that 24 percent of the scientist respondents fit the “Nature Is Overwhelming” model. “In their diagnostic framing, they believe that changes to the climate are natural, normal cycles of the Earth.” Moreover, “they strongly disagree that climate change poses any significant public risk and see no impact on their personal lives.”
Another group of scientists fit the “Fatalists” model. These scientists, comprising 17 percent of the respondents, “diagnose climate change as both human- and naturally caused. ‘Fatalists’ consider climate change to be a smaller public risk with little impact on their personal life. They are skeptical that the scientific debate is settled regarding the IPCC modeling.” These scientists are likely to ask, “How can anyone take action if research is biased?”
At least they linked the Full paper.
http://oss.sagepub.com/content/33/11/1477.full
Quote: To address this, we reconstruct the frames of one group of experts who have not received much attention in previous research and yet play a central role in understanding industry responses – professional experts in petroleum and related industries.
....
To answer this question, we consider how climate change is constructed by professional engineers and geoscientists in the province of Alberta, Canada.
....
Professional engineers and geoscientists are particularly influential in this industry. Alberta has the highest per capita of professional engineers and geoscientists (a category of licensure that includes climatologists, geologists, glaciologists, meteorologists, geophysicists, and paleo-climatologists) in North America. And the petroleum industry – through oil and gas companies, related industrial services, and consulting services – is the largest employer, either directly or indirectly, of professional engineers and geoscientists in Alberta.
....
We find that virtually all respondents (99.4%) agree that the climate is changing. However, there is considerable disagreement as to cause, consequences, and lines of action The other study was all meterologists:
Quote: Objective Methods
The American Meteorological Society (AMS) survey was limited to television weather forecasters who are also meteorologists. A prior survey of all television weather forecasters--including ones without meteorological training--produced a heavy percentage of skeptics. The new survey was designed to determine whether the meteorologists held the same opinion as the broader group of all television weather forecasters.
The survey was conducted by the congressionally funded National Environmental Education Foundation and vetted by an advisory board of climate experts from groups such as the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, National Weather Service, and Pew Center for Global Climate Change.
Alarmist Claims Rejected
The AMS study found:
Only 24 percent of the survey respondents agree with United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) assertion, “Most of the warming since 1950 is very likely human-induced.”
Only 19 percent agree with the claim, “Global climate models are reliable in their projection for a warming of the planet.”
Only 19 percent agree with the assertion, “Global climate models are reliable in their projections for precipitation and drought.”
Only 45 percent disagree with Weather Channel cofounder John Coleman’s strongly worded statement, “Global warming is a scam.”
Others’ Statements Undermined
The survey results support the claims of rank-and-file scientists who say global warming position statements by the bureaucratic branches of groups such as the American Meteorological Society (AMS) are out of touch with the scientific opinions of member scientists.
Cerberus.Pleebo
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-05-10 13:28:17
It's not a scare tactic if what he advocates is demonstrably true. Your own link explains that he made his money from investments in technology. Why do you hate capitalism?
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/07/science/earth/climate-change-report.html?_r=3
A very extensive report, known as the National Climate Assessment, was released earlier this week. Nothing in the report is particularly surprising, but its presentation for the general public, here, is incredibly impressive. (Not all government website releases are a disaster!)
If hardcore technical reports aren't your thing, the highlights portion of the site breaks each section down as plainly as possible, is extensively cited, and makes no secret the level of uncertainty inherent in current findings. The site is really quite fantastic, and I would encourage anyone with genuine interest, skepticism, and/or curiosity in U.S. climate change to fuck around in it for a while. (Of course, if well-substantiated, easily digestible scientific communications aren't your thing, there's always this.)
Perhaps, the most poignant message arising from the report is summarized in this quote from the article:
Quote: The report pointed out that while the country as a whole still had no comprehensive climate legislation, many states and cities had begun to take steps to limit emissions and to adapt to climatic changes that can no longer be avoided. But the report found that these efforts were inadequate. I don't really consider myself a policy person so... what do?
Edit: Also of note is the high diversity of those involved. Largely scientists, of course, but representative of a wide swath of interests, including some oil companies.
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