U.S. Climate Has Already Changed, Study Finds
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U.S. Climate Has Already Changed, Study Finds
Pointing out hypocrisy is not provoking.
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Asura.Wormfeeder said: » Better to live a lie than except the truth. You want to talk about a subject of knowledge and understanding? Bahamut.Ravael said: » Cerberus.Pleebo said: » So your sticking point is a near unattainable standard. Convenient. Means you never get to argue anything substantive yet still have something to fall back on. You know very well I do not have access to raw data nor is it widely available. The closest you could come would be emailing corresponding authors. Still, I've linked several more in-depth pieces compared to the one in the OP and have received zero feedback on the actual science. Saying that models need work is like saying water is wet. Top shelf observation. Is there a good reason why the data isn't widely available? Maybe I'm in an unusual position, but typically when I ask for data, I get it. You can sit there and tell me all day long about your procedures and processes and techniques and tell me how accurate it all is, but the actual evidence is found in analyzing collected data. Everything else may look good on paper, but it's superficial. Like how the housing crisis is Bush's fault. ACA is Romney's fault. Iran is Reagan's fault. So on and so forth. Religious people are more open to discussion than the church of Al Gore. I asked for a tangible solution and get nothing.
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Leviathan.Chaosx said: » Religious people are more open to discussion than the church of Al Gore. I asked for a tangible solution and get nothing. Give it time when they start to lose their followers, then they will wake up and realize how wrong they are.... Talking exactly like the Lordgrim you love so much.
Leviathan.Chaosx said: » I asked for a tangible solution and get nothing. hey *** you, I gave you a tangible way to get rid of at least a billion people, YOU THINK THAT WON'T HELP THE CLIMATE!?!?!?!?
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Leviathan.Chaosx said: » Religious people are more open to discussion than the church of Al Gore. I asked for a tangible solution and get nothing. You asked for a solution based on a false premise. But if you want a solution to CO2 being a green-house gas and adding more of it to the atmosphere causing drastic changes in global climate well it should be obvious, but I'll try: reduce the amount of CO2 we're putting in the atmosphere then reduce the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere. The world will survive, it's us humans that won't at this rate. Many species will die before us actually. But ecosystems are a domino effect anyway.
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Jetackuu said: » reduce the amount of CO2 we're putting in the atmosphere then reduce the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere. Leviathan.Chaosx said: » Religious people are more open to discussion than the church of Al Gore. I asked for a tangible solution and get nothing. A tangible solution that doesn't include any change in our current system, doesn't cost any money, doesn't in any way limit anyone or any corporation from spewing as much carbon as they want, and most importantly, doesn't contain any kale.
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Odin.Jassik said: » and most importantly, doesn't contain any kale. Now you're just being downright reasonable.
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Valefor.Sehachan said: » Many species will die before us actually. But ecosystems are a domino effect anyway. That too, but I wanted to try to keep it simple. Ya, know. Valefor.Sehachan said: » Talking exactly like the Lordgrim you love so much. Answer those 3 questions, and make sure that everyone agrees with it, and I will buy into your religion. Also there are many alternatives for energy production. While sure some are still in testing, are exist and work and just aren't used enough. Biomasses for example.
Jetackuu said: » I'm pretty sure Chaos was looking for more specifics. "Stop burning so much oil" is like saying "Can't we all just get along". It's not going to happen on its own, you need to provide an actual plan.
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Anyone who calls scientific research religion is not someone I'm willing to entertain in debate.
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Bahamut.Ravael said: » Cerberus.Pleebo said: » So your sticking point is a near unattainable standard. Convenient. Means you never get to argue anything substantive yet still have something to fall back on. You know very well I do not have access to raw data nor is it widely available. The closest you could come would be emailing corresponding authors. Still, I've linked several more in-depth pieces compared to the one in the OP and have received zero feedback on the actual science. Saying that models need work is like saying water is wet. Top shelf observation. Is there a good reason why the data isn't widely available? Maybe I'm in an unusual position, but typically when I ask for data, I get it. You can sit there and tell me all day long about your procedures and processes and techniques and tell me how accurate it all is, but the actual evidence is found in analyzing collected data. Everything else may look good on paper, but it's superficial.
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Valefor.Sehachan said: » So, again, you only came here to provoke Pleebo? Edit: It has!
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Valefor.Sehachan said: » Anyone who calls scientific research religion is not someone I'm willing to entertain in debate. Good job dodging the request though. Like I really expected you to answer any one of those 3 items anyway. I offered one of the many alternatives for energy production what did I dodge? Why it happens? Well that's obvious cause CO2 is a greenhouse gas.
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Bahamut.Ravael said: » Jetackuu said: » I'm pretty sure Chaos was looking for more specifics. "Stop burning so much oil" is like saying "Can't we all just get along". It's not going to happen on its own, you need to provide an actual plan. I'm pretty sure he was being facetious, so to his smart *** question I gave a smart *** answer. There's a lot of plans laid out for it though, the ones that an entire group of people dislike because they're told to. Bahamut.Ravael said: » Jetackuu said: » I'm pretty sure Chaos was looking for more specifics. "Stop burning so much oil" is like saying "Can't we all just get along". It's not going to happen on its own, you need to provide an actual plan. So long as there is a public debate about whether climate change is real or whether burning hydrocarbons contributes, nothing can change. If the public agreed like the scientists do, there would be more regulation, more money put into clean energy, etc. It's in the interest of people whose fortunes are built on oil to keep the debate going, while they rake in billions of dollars. Hence why people like me strongly advocate outlawing private campaign financing and lobbying. The fox is guarding the hen house, and the people who stand to gain from continued use of fossil fuels are the ones with the biggest voice on the subject. It's abhorrent.
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The price of fossil fuels has to more accurately represent their true cost. There's really no way around it. Alternative green energy will just be a novelty until there's a financial incentive to actually invest in the proper infrastructure for it. Solar has been catching on in a lot of places simply because we have parts of the country where the space is cheap and panel technology has become less expensive, but a larger paradigm shift would have to include a much larger shift in order to avoid certain goal lines that we don't really want to reach.
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Cerberus.Pleebo said: » Bahamut.Ravael said: » Cerberus.Pleebo said: » So your sticking point is a near unattainable standard. Convenient. Means you never get to argue anything substantive yet still have something to fall back on. You know very well I do not have access to raw data nor is it widely available. The closest you could come would be emailing corresponding authors. Still, I've linked several more in-depth pieces compared to the one in the OP and have received zero feedback on the actual science. Saying that models need work is like saying water is wet. Top shelf observation. Is there a good reason why the data isn't widely available? Maybe I'm in an unusual position, but typically when I ask for data, I get it. You can sit there and tell me all day long about your procedures and processes and techniques and tell me how accurate it all is, but the actual evidence is found in analyzing collected data. Everything else may look good on paper, but it's superficial. So basically it's a stalemate. I don't have access to it because of bureaucratic barriers, and out of pure principle I never accept a graph at face value that I am not allowed to duplicate. Stop burning so much fossil fuels, brilliant. Like I said before, until this can actually be done, the current plan is to tax the average citizen while both alarmists and oil/coal/fracking companies make more profits.
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