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U.S. Climate Has Already Changed, Study Finds
Bismarck.Ihina
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By Bismarck.Ihina 2014-05-13 12:36:34
Yeah it's a lot more complex and requires a great amount of out of the box thinking in order to create a new box. Also involves a great deal of math too.
And science does not, apparently.
Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-05-13 12:36:39
Bismarck.Bloodrose said: »It's safer to say that AGW is more about Human enhanced global warming, due the over-population of people on earth - which is more than what it was designed to handle.
Humans, based on the theories and evidence provided, have been playing a much larger role in aiding global warming (rather than causing it, because the earth has gone through thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of cycles of global warming) in recent years due to the airborne pollutants being produced since the industrial revolution.
We've cut down massive amounts of rainforests, which served as a carbon filter, and exuded oxygen as a by product of photosynthesis for farm and factory land for immediate human sustainability.
Now, we've come to accept we have a lasting environmental impact, and have begun working to reduce emissions, but also on technology to curtail and nullify waste by finding ways to recycle it. Human activity is the direct cause of the current climate trend. There's no need to pussyfoot around it. The rest is fair. Did the dinosaurs cause an ice age then?
Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-05-13 12:37:16
Yeah it's a lot more complex and requires a great amount of out of the box thinking in order to create a new box. Also involves a great deal of math too.
And science is not, apparently. Treating science as a religion is not.
Bismarck.Bloodrose
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By Bismarck.Bloodrose 2014-05-13 12:37:37
Bismarck.Bloodrose said: »They didn't just remove the cancerous cells, they removed the cancer cells themselves of certain types of cancers, meaning that the cancer could no longer spread since it would have been eliminated. What caused that specific cancer then? I think all of the cancers involved were genetically passed in latent genes. But the plants only worked on the cancer and cancerous cells, before the research could be completed fully.
This kind of research was put to a complete stop because they couldn't recreate the conditions to cultivate the plant needed to continue research.
Bismarck.Ihina
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By Bismarck.Ihina 2014-05-13 12:39:55
Treating science as a religion is not.
Complete nonsequitur, as always.
Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-05-13 12:40:39
Treating science as a religion is not.
Complete nonsequitur, as always. Classic fone!
Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-05-13 12:42:54
Bismarck.Bloodrose said: »Bismarck.Bloodrose said: »They didn't just remove the cancerous cells, they removed the cancer cells themselves of certain types of cancers, meaning that the cancer could no longer spread since it would have been eliminated. What caused that specific cancer then? I think all of the cancers involved were genetically passed in latent genes. But the plants only worked on the cancer and cancerous cells, before the research could be completed fully.
This kind of research was put to a complete stop because they couldn't recreate the conditions to cultivate the plant needed to continue research. That's a shame. Would have been interesting to continuing growing a plant like that. That could have been research money well spent.
Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-05-13 12:43:58
Too bad you wouldn't be able to trust the results since all those medical researchers are just working for the money.
Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-05-13 12:47:45
Treating science as a religion is not.
Complete nonsequitur, as always. You claim what journalists who quote scientists who came up with an explanation to explain their results among their peers as truth that you must defend without doing any critical thinking on your own.
How does not equate into a religious belief?
Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-05-13 12:48:45
Too bad you wouldn't be able to trust the results since all those medical researchers are just working for the money. Money well spent if it cured cancerous cells. Rather than leading to more debates and fear mongering.
By Jetackuu 2014-05-13 12:49:53
You have to prove god doesn't exist in order to do that. I don't want to jump to the conclusion that you might be stupid, so I'll ask you if you are just trying to provoke.. Provoke a different way of thinking sure. As you cannot prove a negative, only poke holes in it at best. Asking someone to disprove something that they themselves cannot prove makes no sense. But that's the foundation of the scientific model, all of the collective work is "current understanding until proven otherwise" that's how it works.
I'll still take the collective scientific community' word on something, even if they may be wrong, than a group of quack scientists who are in the pockets of big oil. Then prove god doesn't exist then. You read but aren't listening.
The two aren't even comparable, the one has evidence backing up it's claims, the other uses circular logic.
You claim to try to provoke thought, but about the best you're accomplishing is annoying trolling. There's better ways to go about it. 14 pages of inconclusive evidence is barely backing anything up. It's all alarmist material. Nothing even remotely concrete.
Are the ice caps melting?
All you're doing right now is jumping on the bandwagon.
I was talking about scientific consensus. Look, actual work has been done by experts by the scientific model, the same model that is used in every other study.
So stop backpedaling into other arguments when you're shot down, as that wasn't what the tangent was about.
As far as your accusations there, you're the one jumping on the bandwagon, nice job falling for big oil's propaganda.
Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-05-13 12:50:43
I get it. Something like cancer research is more understandable to you. However, what is and isn't true doesn't revolve around what you're able to understand.
Bismarck.Ihina
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By Bismarck.Ihina 2014-05-13 12:53:59
You claim what journalists who quote scientists who came up with an explanation to explain their results among their peers as truth that you must defend without doing any critical thinking on your own.
How does not equate into a religious belief?
Journalist what? When did I make such a claim?
Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-05-13 12:55:34
I get it. Something like cancer research is more understandable to you. However, what is and isn't true doesn't revolve around what you're able to understand. If I don't understand something I question it until I do. Otherwise I rarely take it on faith alone. Especially when there is a lot of controversy from both sides.
Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-05-13 12:55:53
This may sound like I'm trolling, but I'm genuinely curious. If climate scientists had data that showed that current climate change was just part of the earth's natural cycle and there was no cause for alarm, would most of them still receive funding?
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Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-05-13 12:56:14
You claim what journalists who quote scientists who came up with an explanation to explain their results among their peers as truth that you must defend without doing any critical thinking on your own.
How does not equate into a religious belief?
Journalist what? When did I make such a claim? So you're a climate scientist then?
Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-05-13 12:57:28
All you've done is call it a hoax and scam. You can drop the pretense of impartiality. I'm willing to bet you haven't read any of the report I linked.
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By Jetackuu 2014-05-13 12:58:40
This may sound like I'm trolling, but I'm genuinely curious. If climate scientists had data that showed that current climate change was just part of the earth's natural cycle and there was no cause for alarm, would most of them still receive funding? It's hard to tell, one would need a comprehensive list of climate scientists, their donors/grants and inquire as to the reason the money was funded, as it's not all government money.
There's also more to climate science than AGW, but you know, who cares about that?
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Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-05-13 12:59:04
You have to prove god doesn't exist in order to do that. I don't want to jump to the conclusion that you might be stupid, so I'll ask you if you are just trying to provoke.. Provoke a different way of thinking sure. As you cannot prove a negative, only poke holes in it at best. Asking someone to disprove something that they themselves cannot prove makes no sense. But that's the foundation of the scientific model, all of the collective work is "current understanding until proven otherwise" that's how it works.
I'll still take the collective scientific community' word on something, even if they may be wrong, than a group of quack scientists who are in the pockets of big oil. Then prove god doesn't exist then. You read but aren't listening.
The two aren't even comparable, the one has evidence backing up it's claims, the other uses circular logic.
You claim to try to provoke thought, but about the best you're accomplishing is annoying trolling. There's better ways to go about it. 14 pages of inconclusive evidence is barely backing anything up. It's all alarmist material. Nothing even remotely concrete.
Are the ice caps melting?
All you're doing right now is jumping on the bandwagon.
I was talking about scientific consensus. Look, actual work has been done by experts by the scientific model, the same model that is used in every other study.
So stop backpedaling into other arguments when you're shot down, as that wasn't what the tangent was about.
As far as your accusations there, you're the one jumping on the bandwagon, nice job falling for big oil's propaganda. I don't want to go into a helixical thing here with you, it's getting boring, lol.
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2014-05-13 12:59:47
This may sound like I'm trolling, but I'm genuinely curious. If climate scientists had data that showed that current climate change was just part of the earth's natural cycle and there was no cause for alarm, would most of them still receive funding?
Yes? From the oil, logging and gas industries that'd pay a mint for data saying they have nothing to do with the Earth goofing? Or from universities that'd want to be the groundbreakers on this reversal of current trends.
Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2014-05-13 13:00:14
I get it. Something like cancer research is more understandable to you. However, what is and isn't true doesn't revolve around what you're able to understand. If I don't understand something I question it until I do. Otherwise I rarely take it on faith alone. Especially when there is a lot of controversy from both sides. You keep implying people here are sheep to this "science faith". Not even once has crossed your mind that some might actually have reviewed these researches and formed their own opinions about it based on their scientific knowledge? There might even be someone with a degree in natural science, isn't that so incredible!
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Bismarck.Bloodrose
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By Bismarck.Bloodrose 2014-05-13 13:00:14
A lot of pharmaceutical companies actually push for the delay of curative research, because treatment is a better money maker.
Regardless of what the malady is.
Seriously, go on to one of those home doctor sites, and look up a common malady or symptom. Look at how much of them intersect with minor medical problems, and major.
You're going to want to get treated for something major before even considering the minor. Because you read about it on the internet.
More than half the time, the "fear mongering" you see, comes from your own misinterpretation of facts and hypotheses. Or lack of understanding of how something works.
For example: One could say that religion is a scam, because of a predominant exposure to evidence that says it is, and by ignoring evidence to the contrary, simply because they've already considered the first exposure to be true, and will do everything in their power to discredit anything stating otherwise.
When it comes to Anthropogenic Global Warming, there is an overwhelming amount of evidence from multiple credible sources, which also link to documents and researches that state otherwise.
To some degree, global warming was going to happen, and ultimately shift the magnetic poles over a vast amount of time. The evidence being presented to us, is about the human impact we're having on global climate change, is that we've irrefutably sped up the process, and can thus claim human induced global climate change.
In order to do so, we have to use the best tools at our disposal to create a study using hypothesis and collected data to explain the current theory behind it.
There hasn't been a whole lot of evidence presented that we haven't polluted the earth to the point of being negligible in producing additional or excess green house gases for our immediate sustainability.
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Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-05-13 13:02:31
This may sound like I'm trolling, but I'm genuinely curious. If climate scientists had data that showed that current climate change was just part of the earth's natural cycle and there was no cause for alarm, would most of them still receive funding? If you had a piece of evidence that effectively disproved the entire theory, you would probably end up with the Nobel. However, it would take an extraordinary revelation to upend something so well-established.
Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-05-13 13:02:59
All you've done is call it a hoax and scam. You can drop the pretense of impartiality. I'm willing to bet you haven't read any of the report I linked. 3rd time, Carbon credits are the scam.
Have you read any links I posted?
See how this works both ways?
Why should I listen to your parroting of what others have to say versus critical thinking of the issue?
Not directed at you, but when did I ever say I was for big oil?
In the beginning few pages I said I'm against real pollution. IE. pipeline bursts and fracking.
Now who's being selective?
Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-05-13 13:03:57
This may sound like I'm trolling, but I'm genuinely curious. If climate scientists had data that showed that current climate change was just part of the earth's natural cycle and there was no cause for alarm, would most of them still receive funding? It's hard to tell, one would need a comprehensive list of climate scientists, their donors/grants and inquire as to the reason the money was funded, as it's not all government money.
There's also more to climate science than AGW, but you know, who cares about that?
I'm sure there is more to it, but it only makes sense that they receive more funding due to there being a potential crisis. I'm not going to say it's all a scam to score more cash for researchers, but there's no denying that it promotes bias. Encouraging impartiality in scientific fields is difficult when there's more money on the line for a particular result.
Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-05-13 13:04:06
I get it. Something like cancer research is more understandable to you. However, what is and isn't true doesn't revolve around what you're able to understand. If I don't understand something I question it until I do. Otherwise I rarely take it on faith alone. Especially when there is a lot of controversy from both sides. You keep implying people here are sheep to this "science faith". Not even once has crossed your mind that some might actually have reviewed these researches and formed their own opinions about it based on their scientific knowledge? There might even be someone with a degree in natural science, isn't that so incredible! That's what I'm waiting for. Some thinking on the issue that I can't just Google and find it somewhere else word for word.
Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2014-05-13 13:05:09
Yeah and then you would ask for a source to such bold statements. Like you don't know that wouldn't be the rebuttal..
Bismarck.Ihina
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By Bismarck.Ihina 2014-05-13 13:05:27
So you're a climate scientist then?
I am not, but there is a middle group between being a climate scientist and relying on journalist for your scientific information. I don't even read scientific news articles unless they're written by the scientist themselves.
Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-05-13 13:07:25
All you've done is call it a hoax and scam fear-mongering. You can drop the pretense of impartiality. I'm willing to bet you haven't read any of the report I linked. Better? I've read every link in this thread. If you think what you're spouting constitutes critical thinking, I've got some bad news for you son.
I've provided links to source information. You've ignored it because you don't *** care. Just admit that and move on.
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Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-05-13 13:09:52
Yeah and then you would ask for a source to such bold statements. Like you don't know that wouldn't be the rebuttal.. You can't cite independent thoughts. Just the place(s) that made you think differently.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/07/science/earth/climate-change-report.html?_r=3
A very extensive report, known as the National Climate Assessment, was released earlier this week. Nothing in the report is particularly surprising, but its presentation for the general public, here, is incredibly impressive. (Not all government website releases are a disaster!)
If hardcore technical reports aren't your thing, the highlights portion of the site breaks each section down as plainly as possible, is extensively cited, and makes no secret the level of uncertainty inherent in current findings. The site is really quite fantastic, and I would encourage anyone with genuine interest, skepticism, and/or curiosity in U.S. climate change to fuck around in it for a while. (Of course, if well-substantiated, easily digestible scientific communications aren't your thing, there's always this.)
Perhaps, the most poignant message arising from the report is summarized in this quote from the article:
Quote: The report pointed out that while the country as a whole still had no comprehensive climate legislation, many states and cities had begun to take steps to limit emissions and to adapt to climatic changes that can no longer be avoided. But the report found that these efforts were inadequate. I don't really consider myself a policy person so... what do?
Edit: Also of note is the high diversity of those involved. Largely scientists, of course, but representative of a wide swath of interests, including some oil companies.
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