Bushido - The Way Of The Samurai (A Guide) V. 2.0

it isn't even better aesthetically

Fair enough, I forgot to look at koga's base damage when I saw the OA2-3 times thing. I'll just slink back to the BLU forums XD I stopped playing SAM as soon as I got my tizona. >.>

I completely agree with you, but given the game's current meta of SC/MB, the new soboro has a significant advantage over other GK that aren't Koga.

SAM's best use in the game right now isn't the damage it creates itself, it's the damage it allows mages to do off their 4-5 step SC that makes them more valuable than, say, BLU or DNC(who would undoubtedly beat SAM in a straight melee zerg) and SCH(SC really slow and is limited by gems) which are fairly limited as far as multistep SC go.

So on that listing you are saying nene> ichi> senA> hem is order of best to worse ? hard to tell if that is what you are saying with it just listed with all stats

I'm not actually sure BLU or DNC can beat us in a straight super-buffed melee zerg? With Koga we can pop off Fudo's faster than they can even form skillchains though our TP phase damage is pretty negligible as always. Once accuracy starts to be a factor though we have a lot harder time and we make deeper sacrifices to achieve higher accuracy.

Totally agree with the rest. The new Soboro is the most valuable GKT if you don't have mythic just because we're more of a utility job than a DD these days.

I'm going to go ahead and spoil your hypothetical situation: no, you'd lose badly in that situation given equal gearing. JA delay is a thing.

Why use acro helm over Empp head? and do you know where telos earring drops?

1) Because in the above gear sets you're (a) significantly under capped gear haste (at 22% in the first four sets) without the extra +3% on the suggested Acro Helm augments, and (b) sacrificing a good bit of accuracy where that matters. Re: haste, this is why Otomi Helm is also still a pretty good choice if you're OK on accuracy. Remember that you're not getting Ionis haste bonus in Escha or UNMs, so it's not quite as lax as doing Adoulin content.

Empy head kinda sucks anyway. A lot of Store TP, but no accuracy, no attack, no multi-attack (more important for non-Koga). I'd make up the Store TP elsewhere. Even a Stp augmented Acro would only be 1 behind on Store TP, but would also be able to get, say, Acc+25 or Acc/Atk - worthwhile trade.

2) I don't think it's confirmed, but given the lack of reports and the stats on the earring, I expect Telos drops from Warder of Courage (new Absolute Virtue). As in: nobody should expect this is something they're going to snag easily.

In my experience Blu is just too powerful at the moment for any DD to actually compete with. The difference between Blu and Sam TP gain is really pretty small and like mentioned the main limiting factor of JA delay is the reason it doesn't matter much. Blu TP phase is way better, but their WS phase is honestly better too with CDC putting out much better averages than Fudo currently. Once accuracy comes into play there is absolutely no contest also, the difference between Sam and Blu accuracy is just disgusting.

I do find it interesting looking at Sam as a utility job just there to make SCs, thats not really a play style I use but I can see it having some merit. In that case I would absolutely take the new Soboro over Nene/Tsu/whatever even though the stats are pretty bad.

Am I miscounting, or Ejin is your Koga Max set slightly under haste cap?


It's hard to compare job-to-job using the spreadsheets, and it's been a while since I've tried (and I don't play BLU so I probably couldn't get an accurate dps there anyway), but you're probably right. A year ago we were top but a lot has changed since then :(

It is true that we lose a lot of time/damage to post-WS delay, and unlike pretty much all other melee jobs we don't have significant TP phase damage to offset that. On the other hand, samurai probably doesn't need a buff because our utility with skillchains still puts us as a high-tier damage dealer.

Agreed. And this update BLU got even better, especially in a zerg, with Mighty Guard (DEF/M.Def+, regen, and 15% magical haste that stacks with all other forms of magical haste up to the 448/1024 cap - allows some leeway on marches/hastes, different songs, etc.). Over 4min AoE duration with Diffusion+Relic feet, so it helps every DD in the party.

That being said, CdC and Fudo do play nice together for making light, so pairing BLU and SAM DDs isn't the worst approach.


It's a pretty good role, with the strength of SC+MB on so much current content. And might get even more prominent as the "throw BSTs at it" strat stops being the bandwagon in Escha, and a little resurgence in Vagary to get clear KIs for item trade-in.

SAM is a lot better as the solo SC machine than DNC and BLU. Much better multi-steps, easier to do both light and dark.

While BLU does have pretty insanely fast TP generation just from meleeing (Chain Affinity is not a realistic method for sustained self-SCing), it's not as reliable as an OAx SAM with so few hits to 1000+ tp. Kinda the same for DNC, more JA tools (with JA lag) for instant TP generation, but even those have timers that will be waiting when you are really focusing on rapid fire SCs, and not as reliable as an OAx SAM to just do WS > melee TP > WS.

BLU needs a steep downwards adjustment but S-E has painted themselves into a corner with how it's been built. It's a good example of a job that has gotten lots of gradual buffs until it's too powerful, unlike say puppet master where the job has gotten lots of buffs but it's still not functioning well. Any nerf would probably have to be across the board- CDC/sword nerf and a job traits/gifts/spell nerf as well.

I have the same problem with BLU that I had with THF pre-Rudra nerf- the job is too good at too many things. It can be slotted in a lot of different ways; can do high melee damage, can do good magic damage, has self-buffs, can solo, can cleave, can almost tank, etc. Yes, it has slightly-higher gear*, skill, and preparation requirements but the heavy DD jobs are one trick ponies that can only do damage.

Dancer is also very good, VERY strong melee dps, and has great utility, but it's not so broad with what it can do compared to BLU, and also seemingly few people play it. BLU is very common; probably second most-played DD after BST lately? They've fixed BST. I think it's time for blue mage next on the chopping block.

*much easier for blue mage and in fact all light-armor/DEX-based jobs to hit high levels of accuracy compared to heavy jobs

I left out Mighty Guard because they did mention a super buffed zerg, Mighty Guard doesn't really do anything for that. Really for that kind of event you might favor Tourbillion instead.

Personally when I do any form of SC+MB I just use Sch SCs, but I'm sure there are times when using a Sam is better or at least an alternative to Sch. I haven't played with the Blu spreadsheets but at this point TP gain is so fast for both jobs that there is very little difference in practice, usually you are WSing in largely the same time and you can surely self SC without CA.

It really is. My Blu in fodder gear is at around 1050 base accuracy and if I got unlazy and did JT2 I'd probably be near 1100. Then look at the sets above where the max accuracy set is 1063.

Yeah, it's 24%. Fine for Ionis, maybe not for outside Adoulin.


I kinda don't see it happening. They're still BUFFING BLU... Mighty Guard just this update is a major boost.

Difference I see from THF BST is that those strats were super prevalent and any idiot could do them. I think BLU has more than a "slightly" higher skill level requirement, as is evident by watching your average BLU perform really poorly. Average BST could still sit back and spam ready moves, and average THF could still SA/TA Rudra. Playing BLU well requires understanding the game well enough to know how to set traits, when to use spells, managing MP, more gear intensive...

I agree BLU is overwhelmingly strong right now. I play all of BLU DNC SAM and I'd instantly choose BLU when I want to pull out the powerhouse DD. But man... it would be really hard to nerf the super powerful gifts or just trash CdC.


Well, SAM does get the luxury of being able to go back to being a WS/SC specialist with the meta evolving back to SC/MB. That's a pretty good role and makes the job more than a one trick pony to me. The other heavy DDs are in a little worse shape. DRK is flailing and S-E keeps tossing weird and ineffective magic stuff at it, and WAR... IDK what to do about WAR.


Have you seen how bad at BLU most BLUs are? They're meleeing in hybrid swords when the situation calls for physical DD, over-using spells when they should be purely TPing, setting a mishmash of nukes and physical spells, overusing dual wield (set DW5 with capped magical haste and then use DW gear to boot? sure!)... there's a laundry list of pitfalls that seemingly 80%+ of the BLU population falls into. But yeah, that other 20% is crazy strong.

Yeah, I get your point (though the DEF/MDEF/Regen is something). But if you're able to kill before MG wears (or take turns with 2+ BLUs, or reset diffusion with a COR or something), you could arguably optimize a zerg setup even further by letting the BLU take care of that buff and, say, have a BRD not need to use ANY marches for all DDs to be at capped magical haste - and replace with a different song.

It's ridiculous and it's not just blue mage. I did capacity points at the new Moh Gates Apex crawlers Saturday night on SAM, with my wife on RUN. I'm missing a few pieces but my gear overall has a lot more work into it compared to her DD set. Her base accuracy was significantly higher than mine! Eijin's highest accuracy set up there has three pieces of Ryuo +1, hundreds of millions of gil worth and high rarity, and you could gear a light DD from scratch with higher accuracy in a week. There's something horribly broken about that.


Balancing should be done around the mid- to high-end of an MMO and not around the person who can barely chew gum and walk at the same time. Yeah, the thief and beast master nerfs were pretty obvious, and a blue mage nerf would have to be a pretty extensive and painful thing. I still argue that it's necessary.


Well, SAM does get the luxury of being able to go back to being a WS/SC specialist with the meta evolving back to SC/MB. That's a pretty good role and makes the job more than a one trick pony to me. The other heavy DDs are in a little worse shape. DRK is flailing and S-E keeps tossing weird and ineffective magic stuff at it, and WAR... IDK what to do about WAR.[/quote]

I agree, and that's why SAM has maintained its position, because of utility more so than anything. Honestly dragoon isn't too bad either for pure damage after several significant buffs, but it lacks a niche that would earn it a spot with regularity? WAR and DRK are totally in free-fall.

Obviously I'm biased when it comes to this discussion, but here goes. I cannot refute that BLU currently has the highest ceiling for damage in the game. However, it also has one of the absolute lowest floors. I can count on one hand the amount of BLUs I've played with over the past 10 years who didn't TP with hybrid swords, didn't set nukes in DD situations, or who actually understood DW calculations. I'm not trying to argue that BLU isn't ridiculously powerful right now, as it definitely is, but it does have a far higher learning curve than most other jobs. Not to say that others don't require fundamental understanding of the game and the job, but BLU takes that to a higher level.

And as far as the strength of the job, a large amount does still need to be invested into it. BLU doesn't hit its peak until 1200, and 95% of the BLUs you see running around probably don't even have 100.

I don't mean to say that other jobs don't need some major buffs, because they definitely do, but there is more to BLU than pick it up > gear it > be the strongest DD.

Anyways, sorry to move away from the actual topic.

I'll respectfully disagree then :) I think the overwhelming prevalence of BST and THF during their time in the spotlight was different since it was VERY easy for anyone to take advantage of their mechanics.

Even a really ignorant BST with halfway decent gear could stand back in safety and do ready moves in until a mob dies. Even really bad THFs could get 3000 TP and hit a SA+Rudra macro. The vast majority of players of those jobs were getting the full benefit of unexpectedly strong mechanics. For BLU, it's a significant minority of the population really getting the performance out of the job. A nerf would outright kill BLU for most people, because most of them aren't even at a top level WITH all the tools at their disposal today. And besides, once you nerf BLU, someone else is gonna be top dog, so what then: DNC witchhunt? Weaken GEO buffs? Down with SMN?

Unless there's a clearly abused single mechanic/aspect, I'd rather have more balance achieved with buffs to other jobs than nerfing whoever is perceived as being in the lead. Nobody needed to nerf MNK to make it fade away after being the kings of early Adoulin era. SAM sure isn't in favor to the extent it has been in the past. It's not inconceivable to just buff 2h jobs or weapons in some way. Some extra accuracy bonus/trait, buff WAR's DA further to get it some help, etc.

Regarding the small discussion on the set's gear haste, he's at delay reduction cap. Don't know what y'all are talking about.

BLU is a little bit more difficult to play but let's be real- anyone here could gear BLU to an acceptable level in a week or less, and get a lot out of the job. I leveled BLU back in the Abyssea days and I could easily pick it back up. It's not rocket science. We're off-topic a bit here but I still say MMOs should be balanced around people who have a clue as opposed to absolute imbeciles.


In fairness monk isn't a bad job even today, just, it's lost its niche. I went through last week and updated my monk spreadsheet with abjuration gear and September update gear. Monk can do pretty high damage if you are well-geared.

Hasso JA haste with legs does cause you to hit delay reduction cap with just the 24% gear haste shown, assuming you're also getting capped magical haste. Thanks for making me re-examine it.

For non-capped magical haste outside of Ionis areas, probably some benefit in finding another 2% gear haste.

Unless one of the gear pieces or augments shown have been tested to have 1% less than their listed value, he's at 25%. Even in the super rare occasion someone is playing SAM without capped magic haste, that's fine. At the least, sure, you'd want to swap in Wakido Kote +1 since, unlike past versions, those and Emp119 legs Hasso effects stack.

Why not move to these:

http://www.ffxiah.com/item/27379/rao-sune-ate-1

They have an accuracy path and will cap gear haste outside of Ionis.

I guess that's the point where S-E seems to disagree with you, as the times they've actually resorted to a nerf were situations where even the absolute imbeciles were abusing a specific tactic. Any other times jobs were really good they just buffed other jobs or changed up content to be less favorable to in vogue strategies.

And really, given the history of SAM, it's sort of hard to take it very seriously when there are complaints from the SAM chorus that another DD job (and not a single abused tactic/WS/etc.) needs nerfs because it's just too strong overall. Sounds a lot like sour grapes after basically a decade in the spotlight, and not a lot of people are going to have much sympathy for the poor forgotten Samurai (who isn't even forgotten, as we established with the truly exceptional and desirable SC utility we're seeing today along with still being a more than competent DD).

Eh... MNK's still in a pretty bad spot. It's a melee without the huge utility of a BLU, the debuffs and TP generation abilities of a DNC, the spike damage and TH of a THF, the excellent SCs of a SAM, the backline safety of a RNG or mage. I'd say it's in just as bad of shape as WAR right now, and I'm a long time MNK who cares about the job.

I am sometimes bad at math, but:

7%: Ryuo Somen +1
3%: Ryuo Domaru +1
4%: Ryuo Tekko +1
2%: Grounding Mantle +1
5%: Kasuga Haidate +1
3%: Founder's Greaves
------
24% total

Again though, that's fine with Empy legs and hasso up, since that will still allow for capped delay reduction assuming capped magical haste.

Well that's my bad on which set we were talking about. All I saw was people talking about notSAM so I skimmed over all that.

Part of the problem with BLU, in that when you have a job with the ability to do high melee damage AND high magic damage AND has unique buffs/debuffs, it's hard to change strategies to balance that job.


The accuracy issues that 2handers have are just unforgivably bad design. S-E thinks that content should be tiered by higher and higher accuracy requirements to the point of absurdity, that this is some kind of solution, and it's not. That's got to be fixed, not just for SAM, but also for DRK/WAR/DRG.


I'm not saying that monk is well-off. It definitely lacks a reason to bring it over other jobs. Just, you can do good damage on it, still. Better than most other melee jobs.

That's good to know (if it is correct), the downside is the lack of accuracy in the hand and leg position's if we use Hasso pieces.

I still think Sam's best Weapon is the Augmented Nenekirimaru - I have a DMG+285 GK, +18Acc/Att, and WSDMG+5% (room for +2-3more dmg, +2acc/att, +2% wsdmg) - making the 4-hit is even easier leaving more room for ACC but as the job is mainly Fudo-spam at times, the power of that GK is just amazing. Add in HassoZanshin proc rate at well over 20% with JP's and Ikoshoten TP overflow is ridiculous. You just get slowed down by the animation and WS Delay of SAM's WS's. Having Meditate every 2mins30 that gives well over 3000TP is like being able to use 1hour again and again with a well Augmented back piece.

The one thing that lets the job down likes been said is Accuracy. Out of my 4 main jobs I have a lot more ACC on NIN, then SAM but SE is making content now that needs (like I think someonelse has said) more and more ACC. Sexy equipment is being released, I spent millions and millions on Skirmish Augments just to have Gae's Fete gear run all over it.

I managed to pick up a Haidate for 1M so when I get the Abj I'll have my perfect WS legs of some STR+50 Att+?? once augmented. The Set isn't to bad either for some future purposes - on MNK or NIN there is an Atma's worth of Regen on the Set before any spells etc. On top of it all I'm taking a break when the game is the most fun its ever been for personal reasons but knowing me and how my personal life works i'll be back to enjoy the real End-Game. I think melee jobs are due a massive buff soon but BLU might land up on top by the end of it all. I just have this impression SE won't want their 13year old finished game to be FFXI-BST. The is plenty of room for buffs with the final Escha zone to be released and some currently very tough NM's at the Tier3 stage (that is mainly hampered by the time limit otherwise they are not so bad). So with pet jobs in a good place, 1H's with the exception of MNK in a good place (even NIN as a DD is much more powerful then ppl give it credit) SE has to come back to its 2H's for a giant buff of some kind. Whilst doing that SAM will most likely end up on top by already being the best of the 2H's purely by how the job work's.

If your goal is to get damage from the SAM and other melee DDs themselves, you're probably right. But depending on party/alliance composition and enemy susceptibility to MBs, it's very possible that Norifusa is superior due to the incredible self-SC potential from ilevel OA2-3 weapon with very low delay and high accuracy leading to a large overall increase in total MB damage from the backline even though the SAM takes a significant hit in actual WS damage. It's a little bit different thinking than the traditional SAM mindset, you're actually there more in a support-like SC starter role (almost conjuring up the original vision of SAM's core strengths way back when the job was introduced), instead of SAM providing the DD power directly through their own WS damage.

Remember too that a lot of current high level stuff is still quite dangerous and support intensive to have a lot of melee in AoE range. Something like a tank and a single SAM is a lot easier to manage than a whole group of melees in range. SCH or multiple RNG are arguably even better for SCs due to safety, but using a SAM is not at all an unreasonable proposition.

Ideally, have both options available.

EDIT: and obviously AM3 Koga can also do the self-SC thing quite well too (though perhaps even that doesn't do it quite as well as Norifusa). But my discussion is more comparing the non-mythic options.