Bushido - The Way Of The Samurai (A Guide) V. 2.0

You know you can trust it because it's a 4 year old video. Also love the "best for everything SAM does in every scenario", that adds to the credibility. Inb4 Masa is the best weapon for Jinpu because 70 STR. Other great quotes include: "It's the best because it makes the closing light that much stronger" while in a discussion about how the last SC is capped at 99k every time.

This is really strong evidence of Fudo's superiority.

Say you're doing: Shoha -> Fudo -> Kasha -> Shoha -> Fudo for double light or Light Radiance. Even if Doji has lower Fudo damage (debatable but maybe it's slightly below), Doji has higher damage on Shoha, Kasha, Shoha, and if the final SC doesn't do 99,999 then it also has higher damage there. So Fudo has higher damage on maybe 1/5 of the SC? Guess you really get your bang for the buck in that last Fudo though, it might be 55k instead of 53k.

I wonder how everything scales in the prime gkt with mumei in the multistep scenarios. I haven't found an ideal sc for it other than just spamming mumei.

With masa I generally have 2 go-to SCs.

6step double light
ageha, yuki, kasha, shoha, kasha, fudo

If it's still alive I just spam the general 4 step double light.
fudo, kasha, shoha, fudo.

What does Marcellus Wallace look like?

However misses Wallace wants him to.

Doji users are always trying to excuse using doji, it's fine.

Inb4 fudo with masa only does 2k more dmg so doji obviously better. Oh no I forgot, fudo with doji is better because the calculator said so comparing 1k vs 1.5k tp.

Like whatever, use what you want I guess.

Or just test them both and make your own conclusions.

Itt: people not including the white damage from emp AM procs

If youre comparing 30k vs 32k, then those 6k white damage swings cant be left behind.

Don't leave out Fudo > Fudo is a very potent 2 step.

My Doji is for Hybrids, otherwise I'm taking my AM3, 70str can opener all day everyday.

Gotta love how folks fail grade school reading comprehension.

So the meta is Masa > Doji > Shinsoku

Nah bro, missing dat Hagun up in there :trollface:

Oh.. now that /DRG is back in Vogue, Hagun and Wyvern Earring!

Assuming you mean my calculator: The code is occasionally incorrect. Not as often as before since I've had a lot of help from the community spotting issues and correcting things. This happens to be one of those things. Thanks for pointing this out, although indirectly since I rarely check ffxiah when I'm not actively playing, and even less for threads outside of my own.

I was not expecting Doji to win by so much at low TP in your buffed example. After some quick checks, I found that the code was double-counting TP bonus from gear, so Doji was providing +1000 TP, Moonshade was +500 TP, etc. I've fixed this issue and now see Masamune winning, but I wouldn't say "Fudo with Masa is a lot stronger than Doji." They're still comparable at realistic TP values when skillchaining and it'll probably come down to SC damage vs TP damage preferences.

the non-SAM thinks y'all should just be using Koga 'cause its purdy.

Could we put this to bed with fudo from each of the remap weapons on the graph?

Curious how koga/kogaAM and the prime/primeAM sit on this fudo graph.

again- SAM is just a toy for me for basically one purpose these days- I am not the person to be proclaiming anything regarding this job....but I do really enjoy dusting off the KogaSAM for Dyna-D Jeuno and Hybrid abuse- its likely because mythics are my favorite group of RMEAs, and I find its just as potent as Doji for them.

But again, I'm at best a casual player of SAM and at worst a constant insulter of the job ;)

I have Koga and find a bunch of uses for it.

I actually don't have Doji (since I put my money on Masa) and sometimes wonder which is better for Hybrid WS: Koga vs Doji.

Doji, like most Aeonics, is super easy to get. It's why it gets so much hate. The TP Bonus +500 is good on anything with great TP scaling, like the Hybrids or Fudo.

The OaT typically helped to push the hybrid numbers up a good deal, dont know how much if any nyame DA hindered it any but doubt its enough to lose its spot

DA/TA doesn't impair Mythics, it just doesn't add much of anything either.

Jinpu's fTP for magic component is 0.5/1.5/2.5. I triples in damage from 1 to 2K while 2K to 3K is a 66% improvement. Doji is pretty beastly bonus for Jinpu / Hybrid spam.

Using the new version of the calculator, hot fresh new numbers, full buffs 1200-2100 TP.
Doji: 35070.5
Masa: 39717.5

So it seems Masa does do more Fudo damage than Doji. My original point still stands though; when it comes to multi-stepping, you generally have 1-2 Fudos, and loads of other WS. Doji will out-perform Masa on every single WS, plus all the SCs, and Masa will do only Fudo better, while still capping the capstone SC. I do not believe Fudo is the SAM weapon for all situations.

Doji shows higher Tachi: Jinpu damage and has more Macc so better accuracy on difficult mobs.

Edit: maybe SK is HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE. New numbers.

Is the premise of this current discussion that new equips MLs and such have pushed Doji ahead of Masa?

Otherwise this same discussion has been hashed out a lot. Check out page 103 on for example for some good feedback.

I think the premise of the discussion was a scenario where you're performing a short multistep SC ending with Fudo.
In this scenario a Fudo performed from masa can do more damage than one with Doji, resulting in even more SC damage from the final Skillchain, if it goes unresisted.
Of course this only matters when the Doji SC does much less than 99k, otherwise any potential additional SC damage becomes irrelevant.

The guy starting this discussion was wondering about this and yeah, I can see it being a thing in some specific situations.
Also another big pro of Doji (~10% more SC damage) slightly changed its relevance. At the time of the old discussion, that Aftermath amount was always being used to its full extent. These days, depending on how many Nyame pieces you use in your WS set, it could be used only partially or not at all (granted that the best physical Fudo WS sets only use 3 Nyame pieces, so can still benefit from almost full aftermath potency)


While the guy asking the initial question was only wondering about the final SC, the point Maletaru raised does make sense though. In a long multistep SC you should be looking at the overall damage (i.e. the sum of all WSs+SCs not just the final SC) and there, Doji might end up winning thanks to this sum.
It has to be said though that while TP+500 is gonna help every single damaging SAM WS, something similar can be said about Masa's STR+70, since most relevant GKT WSs have very high exclusively STR mods.


In my personal experience in content like Sheol C when you're against stuff where you're using Fudo, Masa allows you to easily oneshot a lot of stuff where on Doji you'd end up with the monster having some HP left.
Also when this happens with Masa, usually a single melee hit can be enough to finish the target thanks to the aftermath, whereas on Doji you might need more hits etc.
Stuff like this means that in the end you can kill mobs faster and hence reach higher overall DPS and produce better Sheol C results.
I only have R15 Doji, but I've seen other SAMs easily oneshotting stuff that I could not, and that means something imho.



Edit:
I forgot one important part in the Doji vs Masa SC damage.
If the closing SC is Radiance and if the damage goes unresisted, Radiance will do much more damage than a Light. In this scenario this potentially kills any damage advantage Masa Fudo might have over Doji Fudo, in terms of final closing SC damage.
If I recall Radiance is 2x closing WS damage, whereas Light is 1x. Then this amount ges multiplied by your SC damage bonus.
Of course assuming we're far below the 99k cap otherwise this point is moot.

24% in traits and gifts, nyame leg/body+ mpaca head is another 28% so you're already over the 50% cap, so unless im mistaken the AM is worthless beyond giving radiance access

Sechs pointed out all the things I said. The question was about long multi-step SCs, most of which generally involve very few Fudos, and a final SC doing 99k. At the end of the long multi-step you also typically have a radiance/umbra, meaning Doji has the advantage on the final SC. Doji also has higher base damage, SC damage, and +500 TP Bonus.

The way I see it, Masamune has higher Fudo damage and white damage, Doji has higher everything else. If you're spamming nothing but Fudo sure, Masa makes sense. If you're doing long chains with various different WS and loads of SC, Doji has all the advantages in the world and I really don't see how doing a single Fudo for 10% more WSD will make up for that.

They each have their places in different scenarios, but the original question was about Doji's strongest scenario and somehow the answer was: Masa is better in every scenario because auto-attacks and a single Fudo

Mumei>Mumei>Shoha>Kasha>Fudo for light. Which I'd probably take over a Doji multistep double light, assuming you can get decent damage out of the gravitation.

For darkness I just usually do Ageha>Mumei>Mumei>Mumei

Sortie earring is 6 for +1 and 7 for +2, you yes over cap in almost all scenarios.

Why would you use a +1 earring over Thrud/Moonshade? I think including +2 earring in the calculations is a bit...optimistic for most people.

Hmm something is off then, for pure Fudo damage Masa is only like 1~4% ahead of Doji using the same gear set. Humans have a horrible sense of averages and are unable to eyeball a different until the discrepancy is much larger.


Here is the thing, assuming your using a lua where you can edit the Fudo WS logic directly, Doji should switch out Mpaca to Nyame head and then Moonshade to Lugra at higher TP values, which tightens up the different again. The point I was making earlier was that that the Fudo difference between the two was miniscule, Masa's melee damage is what is pulling it ahead, and Doji's SC's damage and access to Radiance doesn't mean much when your lights are already hitting for 99K, which is possible now.