MND For Holy Bolts

Just curious on how much adding MND for using Holy Bolts actually matters on RNG..

My wife been at 75 RNG for a while now but never really used it so we never thought about gear set up. She likes to use xbow because she has capped merits for Marksmanship.

Don't have money for Osode now but do have Suzy boots.. would using them add more/noticeable dmg?.. Are there any other items that are good to use? Is a MND set up worth getting stuff for? etc.

Well my RNG currently has about +60 MND in Holy Bolt build, and with Machine Crossbow, I'm spamming bolts with +80 damage additional effect.

I also use Trilling Dagger, drops off anatabogas Tier2 ZNM in mount zhayolm.

Great for holy bolts

Thought I'd might mention, if you're going for the machine xbow for super fast DPS with holy bolts, it should also be worth getting Trueflight since it is strictly elemental based (MAB & AGI based) meaning the gimp dmg from the fast firing crossbow and bolt damage won't affect how much it does.

All you need is MAB, AGI and TP, nothing else affects damage for that WS.

Is it worth just using Suzy boots for it? Or do you really need to stack up MND for it to matter?.. Might as well stick with af+1 boots?

You need alot of mnd to make it worth it.
otherwise you are better off just using the standard Bow and arrow.

i lost lot on boots the other night.. alas.. someday my mind set up will be ready.. till then i gots mah demon and ppa

Here's my two cents, take it as you wish.
I spent approx. 2m on a +MND set-up for my ranger. I found that even at +55 MND most end-game mobs still resisted most of the shots. My holy damage was capping at roughly +65, +72/73 with an Apollo's Staff. The only exception to holy damage being higher than +72/73 was on Nyzul Isle jellies, being weaker to magic, capping roughly +100. Being dissatisfied at the damage caps, I have only +40 or so MND at the moment for my bolt build. It does just fine +holy damage on low-end mobs and as most end-game resist the full values anyway, it makes a really nice "pwing" sound :D Here's to your lame damage caps SE /slap!

lol

Ok so discounting the MND stuff..

Is it good to keep /nin and use the two axes? Or should change to staff/strap? Might use Darksteel for TP too since Holy wont get that much extra dmg added.

Edit.. Darksteel seem to be shot supply for TPing.. so guess stuck with Holy Bolts.. and just use Darksteel for WS.

Edit again.. So with that set.. even with Marksmen merits.. would it still be better to use bow? Have Selene.. what about Cobra Unit Bow? Ebow is way to expensive for us atm.

Switch to Staff. No RNG should ever /NIN past like LV55, unless you take way too much hate.

I've never really understood the Vulcan's/Axe trend, especially on /nin. I can understand Mekki/Rose but not Vulcan's/Axe.

Vulcan's/Axe vs Kreig/Franny
ratk10 str8 vs racc7 ratk7 agi5 racc4 ratk8
ratk10 str8 vs racc13.5 ratk15
str8 vs racc13.5 ratk5
str8 vs racc13.5 ratk1

8str is +4fSTR2 = 4/100~ or so on a Bow, = +4% DoT.

racc13.5 = 6.75racc% = +7.6% DoT AND WS frequency at the point at which you are just about getting the full benefit of the racc... less accuracy base means this will have more impact.

1ratk is negligable.

So basically, if you use Vulcan's/Axe, you're giving up 3.6% DoT and 7.6% WS frequency just so your shots do 4% more damage per hit... ranged accuracy affects Barrage and WS as well since they won't autocap accuracy and the STR is likely to add less damage on the weaponskill than it does here.

If the answer is that you don't need the accuracy, are you eating sushi? If so, switch to meat with this if applicable. In any situation where your accuracy is not capped, 2x axe > vulcan/axe.

If you're using one axe,

7racc/7ratk vs 8str 10ratk
7racc vs 8str 7ratk

7racc = 3.5% racc = ~3.8% DoT and WS frequency at the point at which the accuracy is only just being fully used.

8str as above is ~4% DoT
7ratk is ~1.5% DoT, less if you're heavily buffed.

Since RNG is largely WS based, 3.8% WS frequency will beat 1.7% DoT and this is a bad scenario for the ranged accuracy here.

Tl,dr; I think despite popular opinion in any situation where ranged accuracy is not capped, even a single axe will outdo vulcan's/axe grip. I'm not a RNG so take it with a pinch of salt and I welcome discussion on this subject.

EDIT: You can include Hasso to the one handed axe comparison and this makes it a lot closer but doesn't change my conclusion :x

as far as i know, rng is pretty easy to cap Racc, i mean punched into Calc, Elvaan Rng/Sam, BASE 64 Agi, capped archery merits, 285 skill, with nothing +,already at 80% Acc on Greater lolibri, Osode E-bow and O hat = 89% Acc, Relic Belt, 94% acc, So... yea, Crimson hands, way over cap already, so thats only like 5 pieces of gear, rings can add +22, ETC ETC, so yea, i think its safe to assume they are basically capped, so Vulcans/Axe it is :p

I am not a rng, but yea,

You cant use Hasso w/ 1 Axe >.>

Yah I know, I was factoring it in for the staff :p not in the above calculations though.

Like I said, I don't play RNG so I'm very open to criticism here since this is purely theory. If you're capping racc then I'd definitely use Vulcan's/Axe... unless you can procure a lower "x hit" build using Mekki/Rose Strap etc.

It might not be obvious at first, but the reason people use Staff/Grip on RNG is because /NIN is just sooooo inferior to any other sub. Basically you have to compare a SINGLE axe to Staff+Grip.

Edit: And yes, it's clear you don't play RNG, Raen. RNG is not SAM. RNG gets the vast majority of their total damage from individual ranged attacks. It's kinda pointless to make your ranged attacks weaker just to WS more often.

I did :( comes out like that unless I'm doing something hideously wrong. Again, it's a theory thing. I also used Franny there, Kreigs would be slightly different.

You'd know this if you were a RNG, but STR >>>>>>>> anything else you can get on RNG, except Snapshot. Ranged attack damage is already fairly consistent (I have something like +50 R.Attack and I get back-to-back 430 damage on Greater Colibri), and R.ACC is also a moot point on anything below HNM status, as I already have 92% hit rate with Coeurl Subs with very little R.ACC gear (Crimson Gauntlets, Behemoth Ring, Qiqirn Collar, Buccaneer's Belt).

/nin if you dont want to die and want to gimp yourself

/war if you want to do dmg and most likely die :)

Well, increase in STR (from fSTR2) is modelled as 1/(base damage), where base DMG = damage of weapon (+ arrows) + fSTR2 already, so for RNG it should be over 100, meaning you'll get less than or equal to 1% extra DoT only from adding 2 points of STR.

Racc adds higher amounts to both DoT and WS frequency so it'll still outperform STR over time if you are not capped. Using your 92% figure up there though, Vulcan's should outperform everything that doesn't further an "x hit" build.

easy 5-hit build for rng/sam with Vbow/Ebow: Mekki, Rose, Rajas, Skadi legs. rng needs 36 store TP with a 490 delay bow such as Vbow/Ebow to accomplish a 5 hit build.

a not so feasable 5-hit build for rng/anything would be: Mekki, Rose, Cobra cap, Cobra body, Cobra hands, Rajas, Skadi legs, Cobra feet. you give up way too many important stats using all that Cobra gear to make a non /sam 5-hit build worth it.

im working towards rng/sam 5-hit atm. only missing Skadi legs, and will drop Tamas for Rajas once I get the other two pieces for the legs.

i read this thread, and not being a rng...my head exploded.
:(

I dont see why a 5 hit build is so wanted on rng. You do high dmg per shot. so a 6 hit build from /war = hard hits per shot and harder hitting WS's. going /sam to give yourself more gimped dmg ws's seems total fail to me. just my opinion on the matter though.

The reason i /sam anyways is for yes faster WS but also third eye what good is /war if your dead? since i dont merit with LS members exclusively i do run into those pts that nobody can pull hate off me when i dont even sidewinder rng = paper armor /war = no help

@Yunalie one other thing to think about is thats a merit set up. 99% of the time alot of our sidewinder dmg isnt even used because the mob is long past dead. so being able to winder faster/sooner might just be what the doc ordered to keep those chains rollin in

I pretty much agree with this. im not advocating /sam or a 5-hit. its mainly for merit situations, limbus, or messing around where things die fast enough, you wont have to worry about going all out and pulling hate constantly. third eye can also somewhat keep you out of trouble if you decide to go that route. I once had it proc 8 times in a row during that Shadows of the Mind ISNM. everyone had wiped with the NM around 10-15% and I was the only one alive when it and its clones came at me. if not for ridiculous luck with seigan/TE, the ISNM would have been a fail.

and true, /war does much more damage, but you also have to use moderation when using that as to not be obliterated by whatever youre fighting.

lol even /nin @ 66 I die once a pt atleast, generally when i WS + Barrage & and go to ws to kill the mob and miss the ws or it eats my TP :(